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Out of curiosity. Was the design intent on Shen Long to dumb him down or was it to give him even MORE options. Would you have to take Yin/Yang in place of his different styles?

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27 minutes ago, rober695 said:

Out of curiosity. Was the design intent on Shen Long to dumb him down or was it to give him even MORE options. Would you have to take Yin/Yang in place of his different styles?

Yin and Yang don't replace his styles.

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On 10/24/2017 at 4:07 PM, santaclaws01 said:

Yin and Yang don't replace his styles.

But what is the point of them? He is hard enough to track as is and now he has another rotating option? I jist wonder if they gave those to make him a little easier to run while still being competitive. Id be curious to see how he runs with yin/yang in place of his normal upgrades. 

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2 hours ago, rober695 said:

But what is the point of them? He is hard enough to track as is and now he has another rotating option? I jist wonder if they gave those to make him a little easier to run while still being competitive. Id be curious to see how he runs with yin/yang in place of his normal upgrades. 

I wouldn't take Yin or Yang even though I have enough upgrade space to run both. They're bland and subpar cards that struggle to compare to even a soulstone. I get that they didn't want Shenlong to become even stronger, but above all these cards are just very boring. They're not interesting alternatives, they're not intricate new gears in his machine, they're just kinda bad cards that lack any real point. As for ditching his normal upgrades; it's his upgrades that allow Shen to be usable in the first place. Without them he'd be one of if not the weakest masters in TT with a bad damage track and survivability, very little in the buffing department and even less to do with any of the conditions he might be gaining.

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40 minutes ago, Tokapondora said:

I wouldn't take Yin or Yang even though I have enough upgrade space to run both. They're bland and subpar cards that struggle to compare to even a soulstone. I get that they didn't want Shenlong to become even stronger, but above all these cards are just very boring. They're not interesting alternatives, they're not intricate new gears in his machine, they're just kinda bad cards that lack any real point. As for ditching his normal upgrades; it's his upgrades that allow Shen to be usable in the first place. Without them he'd be one of if not the weakest masters in TT with a bad damage track and survivability, very little in the buffing department and even less to do with any of the conditions he might be gaining.

The offensive one(Yang IIRC) is actually pretty good when combined with recalled training and High River Style. Give him fast and push him into position with Sensei, then drop recalled training, charge him in and discard a card. Get 5 attacks at at least :+fate and blasting around onto other models. Then he pulses out 1 damage dealing with any pesky HtK models. Obviously this is only something that will work well when they're going to be grouped up, it's a lot of easy damage on multiple models. And if it doesn't look like it'll be something that works after deploying, just have your TCW swap off Yang for Misdirection.

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That'd require me to take Yu, a TCW and Recalled Training, all so you'd get 1 extra attack on a :+fate with a 1/3/4 damage track. And some burning, sure, but unless you're at 10+ burning you won't have any use for that since it'll be gone before you get to use it. Shen just doesn't have the attacks to make use of this ability in any significant way. Instead of three 1/3/4 attacks I could simply spend Shen's AP on buffing other models who do about as much damage in Shen's 5 AP in 2 or 3. 

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Personally I do find Yang interesting to give Shenlong a more "offensive" role, although I wouldn't use the attack printed on HRS unless the situation really calls for it. 

Either with HRS to win duels, or with FRS to maximize damage, using his base attack with Yang and Fasted you can potentially make 6 attacks in one activation (given you kill the first target). That seems pretty awesome.

In any case, I agree Yin / Yang aren't among the most interesting/great Upgrades from this wave, which isn't really surprising as Shenlong already was pretty good and versatile.

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Shenlong without his core Limited upgrades? Oh gosh no. He'd be so bad.

I've tested Yang (offensive upgrade) a bit now. I'm sort of agreeing that most of the time I'd have preferred a soulstone instead. If I want to play a beater Shenlong, I think it's worth spending a stone but problem there is if I want a beater master I actually play a beater master. I mainly see the upgrade's worth if someone wants to solo Shenlong, but still also play a beater master into some games. So a 'fun' choice, rather than tryhard competitive. I'm fine with this.

Haven't been inspired enough to try the defensive upgrade yet. If I'm reading the fine print right it does have a cute thing going for it:

You get a Df buff for remainder of the Action, ie. if someone charges you you can get Df boost for duration of the charge for Df7, and with enough poison you can then also tick poison down for each attack seperately to get +1 Df for each attack for Df8 Shenlong, before factoring in +flips from Low or stat boost from High styles).

That one might actually maybe possibly be worth a stone, can't say for sure since I haven't tried it. I play Misdirection Misaki a bunch and am painfully familiar with many, many things in this game that bypass Df entirely.

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I think the Shenlong upgrades are some of the strongest in wave 5. True, they are not the most interesting, but because I usually played Shenlong with only one or two slots filled, anything to practically put in the extra slot is a boon.

I don't use recalled, because I ususally favour Fermented River Style and deleting big models. Spend a stone to Chakra Point and then you are on positive flips on almost anything that lands. With a big hand from the Emissary, those moderate and low cards can become lethal, as you match your opponents DF total.

Dropping one or two cards from your nine card hand to get a three attack charge, or, all things going well, a double three attack charge... always going to be worth a SS imo.

I thought Yin looked a bit more lacklustre, but now Nikodemus pointed out it can be +2 on a charge, it shows more promise. I will have to give it a go.

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9 hours ago, Tokapondora said:

That'd require me to take Yu, a TCW and Recalled Training, all so you'd get 1 extra attack on a :+fate with a 1/3/4 damage track. And some burning, sure, but unless you're at 10+ burning you won't have any use for that since it'll be gone before you get to use it. Shen just doesn't have the attacks to make use of this ability in any significant way. Instead of three 1/3/4 attacks I could simply spend Shen's AP on buffing other models who do about as much damage in Shen's 5 AP in 2 or 3. 

It requires two things you'd already be taking. And yes, instead of giving 2 models fast or healing models that shouldn't really be that damaged you can charge into an enemy crew getting 5 blasting attacks against them. What other model aside from Yasunori can reliably get 15+ damage onto the enemy crew in an activation?

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Misaki with The Storm deals an obscene amount of damage if you have severe cards on hand and an enemy with low stats to target. (So you can hit it without using the high cards to win the duel)

11 damage per severe if there's 3 models within 12" of her with one being the target next to her and the others within line of sight of the target and Misaki  (more or less). More if they're grouped up.

She can be made fast and given Recalled Training as well.

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New Misaki is no joke, as being able to hit for 11 with one attack is pretty insane. The fact that she can now attack something for 9-15 and hit other models within twelve inches, ignoring everything, for 2-6 damage is pretty powerful. Add in recalled training and sensei yu, and you have a master that will hit four times a turn at a max of 11 damage an attack (which is not that hard to get to), ignoring the fact that models could be within 2" of each other, and also ignoring everything but soulstones. As I said, she is not to be trifled with.

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She's ridiculous in TT and strong in Outcasts. After seeing so many crews decimated by her on turn 1 (there are 4 TT players in my local group and all of them play Misaki with her new upgrade + there is me who play her in OC) I have some serious doubts if The Storm upgrade was playtested enough. In corner deployment you can't even spread your forces to avoid hitting multiple models with a blast.

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Going to agree with others on Misaki with The Storm; I've run it twice and both times I was able to decimate my opponents crew on turn 1 with very little risk. I don't see how an opponent could play around a fast Misaki, pushed 10" up the board with this upgrade without bringing one of the few models that block blasts.

Add on the vanished condition from the charm warder and this just seems busted.

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Really curious about wave 5  Misaki. Please share some of your lists! 

I am thinking about something like the following:

50 SS Ten Thunders Crew
Misaki + 4 Pool
 - The Storm (1)
 - Risk and Reward (1)
 - Recalled Training (1)
Kamaitachi (4)
Sensei Yu (9)
 - Wandering River Style (2)
Mr. Graves (8)
Johan (7)
Guild Pathfinder (6)
Charm Warder (5)
Shadow Effigy (4)

Or 

50 SS Ten Thunders Crew
Misaki + 4 Pool
 - The Storm (1)
 - Risk and Reward (1)
 - Recalled Training (1)
Kamaitachi (4)
Shadow Emissary (10)
 - Conflux of Thunder (0)
Samurai (8)
 - Favor Of Jigoku (0)
Johan (7)
 - Hidden Agenda (0)
Guild Pathfinder (6)
Charm Warder (5)
Terracotta Warrior (5)

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Both of the games I brought The Storm my list was the following:

Misaki + 6SS pool
- The Storm (1)
- Risk & Reward (1)
- Recalled Training (1)
Sensei Yu (9)
- Wandering River Style (2)
- The Peaceful Waters (0)
Chiaki (6)
- Smoke Grenades (1)
Katanaka Sniper (7)
Charm Warder (5)
Terracotta Warrior (5)
Monk of Low River (4)
Monk of Low River (4)

It isn't a refined list and it could probably use the Kamaitachi in place of one of those Monk of Low River. Misaki works a lot better with Sensei Yu than the Shadow Emissary in my opinion, although that may change with The Storm, I don't know. Both games my opponents conceded after turn 1 (and after Misaki deleted 15SS or 16SS worth of models while seriously wounding more) so I didn't really get a chance to play schemes. The fact that you can target a low Df model means that your opponent can't really hope to stop you from blasting their crew to death.

Against a Nellie crew I was able to charge Burt Jebsen with a fast Misaki at the end of T1 after popping recalled training, dealing 5+5 damage and killing him (he had recklessed) and then blast 6 damage onto Sue, 6 damage onto the Jury and then charge Sue and kill him. I actually had a slightly mediocre hand, so I missed an attack against Sue, otherwise I could have likely killed the Jury as well. My opponent conceded after I won the initiative on the next turn.

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I had my first game vs wave 5 "storm" Misaki last night and I was trying out my "make the enemy a construct" TT Mei list.  The amount of damage that was put on to my crew was tremendous. Now granted, my opponent had 4 severe cards with the red joker in hand and I had crap but still, I was completely blown away literally and figuratively.  I conceded turn three as I only had a few models left and had only taken out one of his.  How do you counter this?  Keep high cards in hand for when she attacks and hope she gets min damage?

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20 minutes ago, hydranixx said:

(Btw how many Impossible to Wound models do Ten Thunders have?)

Yan Lo after he attaches one of his upgrades.

Can't think of any non-master that has ItW proper, but I'm not brushed up on wave 5 or all out of faction hiring.

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3 hours ago, KingCrow said:

I had my first game vs wave 5 "storm" Misaki last night and I was trying out my "make the enemy a construct" TT Mei list.  The amount of damage that was put on to my crew was tremendous. Now granted, my opponent had 4 severe cards with the red joker in hand and I had crap but still, I was completely blown away literally and figuratively.  I conceded turn three as I only had a few models left and had only taken out one of his.  How do you counter this?  Keep high cards in hand for when she attacks and hope she gets min damage?

Freikorps.

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1 hour ago, Freman said:

Freikorps.

The absolutely tragic thing about this is that if you manage to counter the list perfectly somehow (you would have to bring pure anti blast) your opponent can use the Terracotta to switch to Stalking Bisento.

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1 minute ago, Jinn said:

The absolutely tragic thing about this is that if you manage to counter the list perfectly somehow (you would have to bring pure anti blast) your opponent can use the Terracotta to switch to Stalking Bisento.

True. TT Misaki is a tricky one. Somewhat less tricky in Outcasts.

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8 hours ago, KingCrow said:

How do you counter this?

Play less models and don't rely on any defensive abilities except high stats and high wounds (and impossible to wound). Put more terrain on the table and refuse to play if your opponent is an arshole and insists on removing it. As for specific models, Anna Lovelace worked well for me. I have used her once to lock Misaki down on the flank for three turns.

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