How to Pandora?

[MetaphoricDragn]

I haven't seen much talk specifically about the Maiden of Neverborn lately.  I had my first game with her the other week, and well it went okay all things considered (8-10 loss to Kirai) I could tell I wasn't using her to her full potential, and unfortunately there is not a convenient Schemes and Stones podcast to catch me up on her like there was for Lilith.  Therefore I'm reaching out, can you all teach me the tips and tricks of Pandora?

[Sybarite]

I am a pretty new Neverborn player but I feel like I have managed to learn Pandora rather well very quickly. There are two basic setups: Voices and Depression for paralysing (which a lot of people like but I haven't tried yet), and then there's The Box Opens and Fears Given Form one for a more aggressive, walking death kind of Pandora, which I find to be so very fun

Aether connection can help her survive longer.

A lot of people dislike sorrows. I think they can be nice but I would probably never run more than one anymore. They can be nice in turf war and stuff when you want some extra death in the Dora bubble. They're also pretty nice with the attack they gain from someone having the Depression upgrade. But they have to be careful, hugging cover and generally activating late.

Primordial Magic is awesome, so you should probably take it Such a good totem. And the other must have is Doppelganger.

For scheme running and wp debuffs to help Pandora, Insidious Madnesses are very good. incorporeal walk 7 is sooo fast.

You don't really need a ton of synergy, but Mr Tannen, Widow Weaver, Lust and Barbaros are very good models who can help mess with opponent's wp tests as well as other things.

Candy is quite lovely with Fears Given Form. She's not always great at killing things, but she's great at tying them up and annoying them, refusing to die.

Baby Kade is kind of difficult to use well in my opinion, but others might like him.

Teddy is really scary, with high damage and built in triggers to move enemies around, plus some wp synergies. But she's squishy when facing high damage attacks så watch out. Mimic's blessing can help here. 

Mr Graves is really good for 8ss. He hits hard, can take a beating and move models around.

I know a lot of people like Nekima and Bishop with her as well. Bishop can hit vs wp.

Pandora crews can often require you to be very careful with activation order but thankfully you can mess with your opponent's. Mood Swings is great! Iggy can add some more of those

[Mxbedlam]

honestly, I tend to use her as an independent piece that helps lock down large sections of the board through paralyzing and activation control. If misery bombs go off, its more serendipitous than anything else. She pairs with almost anything that is already independent as well. I've had success with Illuminated and Black Blood Shaman, Barabaros, Hooded Rider, Insidious Madness, Candy, Widow Weaver, Vasilisa and even ran a swampfiend list with her and bad juju a few times.

[Pikciwok]

I am newbe and Pandora's my first Master but even if I do everything wrong Pandora still can gain a few points. As long as you remember about her auras and mood swings on enemy models she'll get the job done. Incite's her most powerful action, always try to get the trigger.

The real problem for a new Dora Player like me are the other models from her Starter. Candy has mediocre Ca values and her auras are dependent from Mood Swings and Nobody likes me conditions. I use her as an aura carrier with fears given form. Still have to try using her as a field medic though. I like Sorrows and Poltergeist but they are very squishy. Baby Kade can't lure anything. I usually use him to push Teddy. I think the starter crew is in dire need of reliable source of Wp debuff that doesn't use Pandora's AP.

[Mr Janje]

The crew I run to great success, is one I find can take on most crews, schemes and strats :P!

Pandora
Aether Connection
Fears Given Form
The Box Opens

Sorrow
Sorrow
Insidious Madness

Teddy

Baby Kade

Doppelganger

Primordial Magic
7 Cache

You can throw Retributions eye or Mimics Blessing onto Teddy to suit the opposing faction, but this crew can just waltz around and cause people to crumble from failing WP Duals

 

[tunagami]

I know that the primordial magic is the default totem for a few of our masters, but I have been having a lot of fun with the Poltergeist as of late.  In the last 3 games I played with him he ends up dying, but he is a nuisance.

I also try to do a lot more 'heavy control' combing iggy + candy + pandy for a lot of order-of-activation control and then use that to force things like paralysis.  I add in a few sorrows too.

It is probably not the most ideal, but it has been fun to play and in theme is always a bonus in my book (I DO play out of theme all the time, but there is something really fun about playing with the models who are 'buddies' ;-))

[D_acolyte]

I like Pandora, I also tend to feel she is the most straightforward of the Neverborn masters as well as not really caring much about her own crew make up. If you go will power heavy she is good and if you do not she is still good, basically she is a self contained masters that can shine in independent actions.

I runner her about half and half when it comes to her limited upgrades with the deciding factor being how many high damage models do I think my enemy will be running. If the answer is 2-3 I tend to go combat Dora with a slight variation: my meta tends to have a lot of wall so I replace Fear Given Form with On Wings of Darkness. I go paralyzing Dora if I think there will be a lot of shooting or models in my enemies crew.

This past weekend when I was playing her in a second round of a tournament I she was really hampered by the black joker as she would draw it when trying to Incite terror tots 3 out of 5 turns of a game.

I am a big fan of the poltergeist as he can really help her out with WP duals or score schemes as he is a wk6 incorporeal minion.

Candy is ok with Pandora, but I am iffy on running the mini version of masters when at 9 points when I am already taking that master.

The fallowing is a list of my thoughts on her after each of my first for games with what I took and was up against.

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/108965-falling-into-madness-–-pandora-experience/

[thebarbalag]

I highly suggest trying out Lust with Pandora. The board control, hand devastation, and sheer number of Wp duels is just silly. Barbaros is also a go-to for me with Pandora, especially if I'm bringing Sorrows, or the Poltergeist, which I often do. His Challenge ability, especially when combined with the Poltergeist's Distraction, allows Pandora to play her bubble game without too much fear of reprisal for her squishy pieces. Candy's Goody Bag can keep Barbaros up if he starts to get too low, though that's a lot of points...of course, it's a lot of points that do a lot of work. Shrug. I'm very excited to try out the utter nonsense that is the Mysterious Emissary with Conflux of Sorrow, the ability to borrow Casting Expert, Nimble, Regeneration, Impossible to Wound, Misery, Manipulative, Terrifying, Smell Fear, Pounce, Martyr...the list goes on into madness...so much potential.

[MetaphoricDragn]

I guess my confusion stems from solo Pandora versus bubble, the success I started seeing with Pandora in my game started when I got her bubble going, and she seems to want to build more around a bubble of WP duels, but advice here seems to be telling me mostly to ignore that, which is throwing me off.  IN part because you can't really group around a Fears Given Form model without the risk of hurting your own models.

From memory, the list I ran was

Pandora
- Box
- Cry for Me
Primordial Magic
Candy
- her personal upgrade
Kade
Teddy
2x Sorrows
Insidious Maddness

[D_acolyte]

20 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragn said:

Candy
- her personal upgrade

I do not have my cards on me but I do not think Candy has a personal upgrade.

[Fetid Strumpet]

She does, Best Behavior.

[D_acolyte]

I never take it for some reason so I must have forgotten it. Often I give her Depression and Mimic Blessing or Fear Given Form.

[orkdork]

I have lots of success with my Nekima/Dora/Doppel dive buddies build. It usually wins by fighting, so it is a bit more strat/scheme independent than most.

I don't bother with Box Opens, FGF or Depression. IMO, Voices, Aether Connection and Wings of Darkness are all too important.

Then I fill out the crew with either stuff for running schemes or for Doppel to copy (Johan, Graves and Lilitu top that list).

I rarely paralyze at range, finding myself usually double-inciting into close range.

BTW, don't get fooled by the "why paralyze when you can kill?" argument. You'll do lots of both. Voices doesn't make her a "support" master. A single key paralyze can win a game (incite lets you force them to activate the paralyzed model, so no chance for them to remove the paralyze). It's a very, very potent option. Even if you never use it in a game, you more than likely caused your opponent to play around it in a big way.

Voices, Inflict, and Misery don't have to be every turn abilities to be highly impactful.

Doppel becomes a monster with Nekima around. She almost insures you get to activate Pandora first in the turn in order to hand out incites and kill/paralyze stuff. This in turn lets Nekima go before things that threaten her (and Pandora may have paralyzed/killed those as well). Finally, Doppel can copy Nekima's sword.

Speaking of Nekima, in my experience, she basically outperforms every other Neverborn beater by such a large margin that I can't ever justify any of the others. The others aren't bad pieces at all, but Nekima is a top-tier piece, IMO.

For reference, my most common list is:

Pandora, Voices, AConnection, Wings

Nekima

Doppelganger

Lilitu

Madness

Waldgeist

Mysterious Effigy

The Madness, Waldgeist and Effigy are as much because I adore the models as because they're the right choices. In many cases, Widow Weaver, Johan and/or Graves are better options. At this point, I win more than I care to, so I'm happy to take models I love over models I like

[Dassenkop]

11 hours ago, orkdork said:

A single key paralyze can win a game (incite lets you force them to activate the paralyzed model, so no removal). It's a very, very potent option. 

How would that work? The 'so no removal' part.

[Slobber]

5 minutes ago, Dassenkop said:

How would that work? The 'so no removal' part.

If affected by incite you can force your opponent to activate an affected model. You force the Paralyzed one to activate, not allowing it to remove the condition.

[Adran]

I'm assuming you mean you can force the paralysed one to activate, so the rest of the crew doesn't have a chance to remove the paralyse.

Because if you activate the model, it will lose the paralyse naturally. 

[Mxbedlam]

Also, using incite on a paralyzed model is basically like getting a free chain activation.