Falling into Madness – Pandora Experience

[D_acolyte]

Falling into Madness – Pandora Experience

I have seen beyond the bounds of infinity and drawn down daemons from the stars. . . . I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness. . . .

(“From Beyond”, 16 November 1920)

So I have seen a few of these and figure I would give it a shot. This is a long thread covering my experience with Pandora as it happens. I will try to keep my own theory crafting to a minimum and stick to the EXP. I will try to put up something new for her every week to 2 week for a while depending on how many games I get in.

About me: in 1^st ED I played mostly Arcanists and started Neverborn as more of an afterthought but sense 2^nd ED I have been playing Neverborn a lot more. I have played Dreamer, Lilith and Lynch recently and amount is in that order. My brother though replaced my old metal Pandora with the new plastic one as a gift, so now I finally have her totem. I perform combat based on the theory of strategic dismemberment: focus of firepower and field saturation. I tend to aim for 8 models in my force, right about the average number.

 

Game Number: 1 Outcome: Victory 7 to 3

Deployment:flank

Strategy: Claim Jump, Me 4, Enemy 2

Scheme Pool: Line in the Sand, Bodyguard, Curse Object, Distract, Plant Explosives

I took:

Bodyguard (teddy) 0

Curse Object 3

They took:

Line in the Sand 1

Bodyguard (Bert) 0

My list:

Pandora with Voices and Depression

Poltergeist

2 Sarrows

Teddy

Coppelius

Lilitu

Stitched Together

 

My enemy list:

Som'er -Can o’ Beans, Encouragement, Pig Feed

Hog whisperer

Slop Hauler

2 Piglets

War Pig

Bert-Dirty Cheater

Skeeter

 

Models Thoughts

Pandora: Pandora helped to kill Bert and then went on to curse object the slop hauler every round. She incited someone every round often to let her push to do self-loathing to Som'er before she went back to lock down the slop hauler, I think I used her so so throughout the game.

Voices: I paralyzed a reactivated Gracie but I was really hoping to use if vs a shooting list so that I could see how much mileage I can get out of it.

Depression: effectively never used it… to busy inciting and pushing myself around.

Poltergeist: Died turn 2 after taking 3 activation to kill it. Not bad for a useful distraction.

Sorrows: If I told you that I had them compleat Claim Jump you might think I am crazy, but because they can be placed in base with someone in 8 I just moved someone near a claim and jumped the sorrow to them then interacted. I paralyzed Bert once, and if that is not worth a high card I am not sure what is.

Teddy: I will start by saying I LOVE THIS BEAR!! But this game I did not take him with Retribution’s eye and a near death Gracie eventually killed him

Coppelius: He ran and claim and came back around to die…. Some days that happen.

Lilitu: She did not lure much but she did tangle things up with her 4 inch engagement range which was useful.

Stitched Together: For a basic foot trouper I do not think he brings much to Pandora but he is good to jump to and will take a bit to kill, in short he is Sorrow Approved.

 

Game Number: 2

Deployment: Corners Outcome: Victory 8 to 1

Strategy: Reconnoiter 4, 0

Scheme Pool: Line in the Sand, Protect Territory, Assassinate, Take prisoner, Outflank

I took:

Protect Territory (announced) 3

Outflank (announced) 1

They took:

Protect Territory (announced) 1

Outflank (announced) 0

My list:

Pandora- Aether Connection, Box Open

Poltergeist

2 Sarrows

Candy – Depression

Nekima – The True Mother, Rapid Growth

Young Nephilim

 

My enemy list:

Brew Master- Drinking "Problem", Hold Their Hair Back

Apprentice

Fingers

3 Moon Shinobi

Whiskey Golem- Angry Drunk

Slop hauler

 

Models Thoughts

Pandora: This time I used her better, though she did a bit of combat this time and felt more like a bruiser than a controller at times, though I bet my enemy disagrees as there first few activations where all my choice. I incited a lot, it is very helpful to move across the field. My enemy also did not attack her a lot because of the terrifying and the wp 7. He chose that his best thing to do was bog me down and send everyone else to kill Nekima, then when I got free he could do nothing to respond to her. I also find that she is very soul stone efficient, other than Incite nothing she does has a trigger and most of the time she is capable enough to avoid minor minion’s attacks making the number of stones I am comfortable with low. I had 3-4 in both games and went to bed with most of them by the end.

Aether Connection Assassinate was in the pool so even though I did not use many stones it was nice to have.

Box Open Terror all 13 is nice, but I liked the attack I got from it more. Sure it is not vs WP but it also has triggers and lets her not rely on someone’s bad damage to kill them. When I was attacking the drunk gremlin ninja with their own attacks all I could think is that if they had armor I would be here all day. This upgrade also made killing the Apprentice easy, why does that model have a wp 7?

Poltergeist: He killed the Whiskey Golem, no I am not joking. Now on the other side, giving Moon Shinobies a negative flip that becomes a positive flip will let them pass a lot of horror tests.

Sorrows: It is official, I am crazy because these guys helped with misery but mostly they teleported around to get to where they could walk to do schemes. I think 2 sorrows may be to many right now.

Candy: I was unimpressed, other than Sweet and Sour I do not think she has a lot going for her. Her skills are just too low at least in a Pandora crew, now she might be better in a non-Pandora crew like say Lucius or the Dreamer. The other option is invest in ways of lowering peoples will power to increase the effectiveness of her Ca 5.

Depression: I tried it to give No Body Likes Me Once but it so low I realized I rather just have Pandora come over and Incite models to force everyone to go before a gremlin ninja with 3 wd left. I do not think I will take it on Candy again unless I plan on having her heal like a D and D cleric, not saying either cannot do other things.

Nekima: She got paralysed and died 3^rd turn but she was great. This was my enemy second time seeing her and he sent everything at her to the point where all but 3 models were with in sword range by the time she died. A total of 16 stones and my foe having no point for the strategy… WORTH IT!

The True Mother: never came up

Rapid Growth: never came up

Young Nephilim: lets out a good amount of damage and does not need Pandora around to help with that.

If you want more feel free to ask, I generally play Friday. I will also try to add more about those other two games.

[Shadowfane]

Depression is an odd upgrade - if I take it, it goes on baby kade to ensure sweetbreads triggers on his carving knife, otherwise it stays out of the running.

Candy usually gets fears given form and becomes an immensely irritating area denial/control model.

Just some thoughts after seeing your post. Otherwise, great job! Looking forward to reading moremore :-)

[Adran]

I've very surprised you took the Rapid growht Upgrade, with only 1 other Nephlim. I Know Nemima can summon more Terror tots, but its not that easy, especially when you only start with 2 black blood sources.

[D_acolyte]

I did it for 2 reason, if I could make a mature it would be great but more over I wanted my enemy to send everything at her and cluster around her that way they would be less likely to get a point form Reconnoiter. Yes I am a sly ..... player.

I plan on trying Kade soon.

[Deluge]

very nice write ups so far, I'll be following with interest. My Pandora crew should be assembled tonight (plans willing) and I hope to get a game in with them tomorrow although I doubt I'd be able to provide much to this discussion

[D_acolyte]

All discussion is welcomed, especially because we will probably all have a different way of using her.

I am hoping to use Kade and a Madness in my next game. I am slowly but surely working my way through my collection and I can not wait till the weaver widow comes out, I did not get her metal sculp.

[Nical]

I don't like to play pandora, so I focus other models and upgrades in your crew....

 

Depression

I think Depression's Melancholy (Nobody Likes Me) is more useful in non-pandora crew. So I think it is a "suit booster" for Pandora's crew.

Because Pandora's crew usually have enough denial and dealing powers except it, but others sometimes need it.

 

Candy

I think Candy's jobs is healing & 'additional denial'. Because her CA is low and others have better denial than her in denial themed crew.  

Fears given form is very good for candy. It makes Candy can deny and deal opponents by just move and engagement. 

So I think it is one of cheapest way to solve Candy's low Ca Problem.  

 

Teddy

Retribution's Eye is good, but On dreaming Wings is good, too.     

 

Sorrow

Low stats are their problems. they are fragile against Ca attack and Misery Loves Company needs "target models".

So I recommend to use Insidious Madness and/or Sorrow in more games before evaluating Sorrow.

For example, I think your gremlin opponents crews didn't have powerful Ca attack.

[Deluge]

Played a game last night (lost due to first real game without constant rules checks and didn't pay attention to the Strategy) where I used Candy with the Best Behaviour upgrade for Bodyguard. I managed to drag most of my opponents models into one section of the board and used "Run away home" towards the end of the 3rd turn so I could redeploy away from his threats and gain 8" space between her and the deployment zone to score a few points in turns 4, 5 and 6 and kept her above half wounds. It also helped that I had his models bunched up for Teddy and Kade to engage and Pandora and her Woe to start plinking wounds off with Misery Aura's.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I tend to find useless duplications is better on candy then best behavior if you want her to live for bodyguard. You could go with a ganger and best behavior and just never use candy, but I think useless duplications is great enough on her.

[Nical]

How about Mimic's Blessing? I like to take it and/or best behavior for Bodyguard Candy. 

[D_acolyte]

Game Number: 3 Outcome: Victory 7 to 5

Deployment:Corners

Strategy: Interference, Me 3, Enemy 2

Scheme Pool: Line in the Sand, Bodyguard, Distract, Make them Suffer, Spring the Trap

I took:

Bodyguard (Kade) 3

Line in the Sand (declared) 1

They took:

Bodyguard (Chiaki) 0

Make them Suffer 3

 

My list:

Pandora with Voices and Fugue State

Poltergeist

Sorrows

Kade with Depression

Beckonner

Tannan

Graves with Retribution’s Eye

Insidious Madness

 

My enemy list:

McCabe with Elixir Of Life, Badge Of Speed, Glowing Sabre

Kamaitachi

Chiaki with Pull of the Grave

Tannan with Smoke Grenade

Sidir with Promises

2 Katanaka Snipers

 

Models Thoughts

Pandora: Pandora ran around being a fighter and paralyzingly people all game long. Incite was difficult because the higher than average will power of my enemies and wanting to save a few high cards to hit them for damage or paralyze them. I for got about Martyr otherwise some of the damage on the sorrow and Kade would not have happened. Pandora is really good an harassing and engagement tricks.

Voices: I must have paralyze four or five models during the game, from Snipers to McCabe. I feel this is defiantly an upgrade worth that is worth it if you want to do some more control or are up against a range or low damage enemy. One question for people, this activates after succeeding and reduces damage to 0, do I still flip for damage even if it can only be 0 to cycle through the cards?

Fugue State: never came up.

Poltergeist: Died turn 3 after engaging multiple enemies the prior turn, but it took one of my enemies combat capabilities models activating first to do so, mostly to get Make them Suffer.

Sorrows: He moved and placed into base with a Katanaka Snipers first turn tying that sniper up and being a nuisance. That particular sniper never fired a round the entire game. Though the sorrow died 2^nd turn.

Kade: High 1 is nice for a model you want to live, he spent most of the game hiding or tag teaming with Pandora to do some sick damage to models she was engaged with. The +2 damage for hitting someone that is engaged by another model is nice. Lure on him can also be helpful even at a skill of five if you do not want to move him. Though he does remind me of my nephew.... that is not a good thing, though it might make painting him easier.

Depression: I held on to my 1 of crows just so I could do 5 damage to a model near pandora.

Beckonner: I loved not that kind of girl, it allowed me to lure and them move to where I could not see them because of my models so they pushed into combat. Her damage attack was ok, I might have been a little to timid with her.

Tannan: I did not play him well, totally forgot about unimpeded and did not make use of his auras. Alternatively, he helped Graves get to places and caused more will power duals to shave some more points off of models.

Graves: He was more resilient than I thought and his a nice damage output. Also being able to push people is very nice, especial incorporeal models through other models. Also I like having black blood in base to base contact with enemies so his push x then push into base is nice, though if you do it to your own models try and leave 1 ap left to move away afterwards. I might try him more often as a replacement to some of my larger models I give Retribution’s Eye to. No real interaction with Pandora but if I bring Tannen then Graves becomes more tempting.

Retribution’s Eye: never came up but if I did not take it with my luck I would have seen 2 samurai.

Insidious Madness: he ran my line in the sand, so overall I did not get much of a feel for him in a Pandora list.

[hoodedrider]

I have to say, I'm impressed you got Bodyguard off on Kade. My regular opponents seem to see a giant target on him (can't imagine why lol). As for Madnesses, after I run whatever schemes are needed, I throw them at the enemy late turn to make them bleed control cards and found they are more resiliant than they appear. Good write ups so far, keep them up

[D_acolyte]

Game Number: 4 Outcome: Victory 7 to 4

Deployment:Corners

Strategy: Reckoning, Me 2, Enemy 1

Scheme Pool: Line in the Sand, Assassinate, Breakthrough, Deliver the Message, and Frame for Murder

I took:

Frame for Murder (Teddy)2

Deliver the Message (announced) 3

They took:

Frame for Murder (Oxfordian Mage with flaming fist) 3

Breakthrough (announced) 0

 

My list:

Pandora with The Box Opens, Fugue State, Aether Connection

Poltergeist

Coppelious

Kade with Depression

Teddy with Retribution’s Eye

Barbaros

 

My enemy list:

Iron Side with Front Line Leadership, Warding Runes and I cannot recall the last one

The Captain with Patron’s Blessing and Warding Runes

Mouse

3 Oxfordian Mages with a rune upgrade on each

Johan with Imbue Energy

 

Model Thoughts:

Pandora was the work horse of the army, killing no less than 5 models in the game: 2 Oxfordian Mages, Iron Side, Johan, and The Captain. The fact that misery happens after her action lets those nice relic hammers or high damage attacks cause hard to kill and then the single point kills them. I had her in the thick of combat starting turn 2 and she pretty much stayed there till the end acting as a tar pit on the left side of the board. Also do not worry over using a soul stone on Incite to get the trigger, the two pushes as a 0 is very helpful.

The Box Opens: I am of mix mind on this upgrade for general use. It let me kill a mage late in the game with its attack, which is nice as it give a non-gun symbol non-willpower attack and there for adds a good variety to Pandora’s capabilities. Where voices would have let misery start killing Oxfordian Mage before they activate as it gets around Arcane Shield.

Fugue State: took it because of Breakthrough and Deliver the Message where in the pool. Otherwise it never came up.

Aether Connection: took it because Assassinate was in the pool, and used it once to negate an Oxfordian Mage damage.

Poltergeist: this is the first time I was unhappy about the Poltergeist performance, to be fair though he did give Ironside and The Captain negative WP flips till he died. He died mid game like normal. I tried to use him to help defend my terrifying models a bit with is aura and that was not an effective use of him as my opponent would attack the poltergeist instead. Also he can take falling damage as incorporeal does not make you immune to it.

Coppelious: a standard in my dreamer list and generally I use him to do a little of control and harassing but he died too early to do anything this game.

Kade: The place in base with teddy then push teddy is really nice, I used it to put Teddy in cover and move the baby at least as far as 2 walks, I can see some other uses but that for theory and not experience talk. Kade charged Ironside how was engaging Teddy and stabbed ironsides for moderate damage under sweet bread then proceeded to have his head caved in by The Captian.

Depression: Kade died before I had a low crow in my hand.

Teddy: Well he did his job, “Ms. Ironside I have a message for you.” Yes I will use any model I can to Deliver the Message as I find 3 victory points early in the game is worth more than an 11 pt model. He did not kill anything but then was a pain in the neck for The Captain till he died on turn 5, why could you not die sooner. I forgot about Smell Fear, one of 2 things I had trouble remembering in the game.

Retribution’s Eye: Never came up as there was no armor.

Barbaros: I love Barbaros and tend to feel that as a general view he is under appreciated. He is a good resilience model with a good DF, WP, WD and armor. His damage is at a moderate output but a good to hit and an ability to push a person without using a trigger. He was the only other model to kill someone in the game. Barbaros has nimble, CG 8 and a range of 2 making him a very fast missile or a good model for Deliver the Message. I kept declaring Challenge and forgetting about it, probably because I kept trying to not use too many markers on the board which is a shame because a wp 14 duel to not target him would be a good way to get misery damage or in conjunction with the Poltergeist. I love Barbaros.

I may do more write ups like this as it has been fun and I hope that it was helpful to others. If I do anymore Pandora games I will post them here. I would also recommend doing if you want to share ideas/experience about a master over several games.

[AgentRock]

You deserve to be commended, if nothing else for being so open to trying lots of different models. A lot of times I get caught up in the group think and don't try to do what you did in these games, and just throw models in and see how they perform. Good job. 

[Deluge]

I have run Coppelius in my Pandora lists a few times now and he is quickly coming to be somewhat of a staple in my lists, he is great for hunting down opponent's scheme runners and building up a collection of eyes before moving back into the thick of things in the middle of the board where the Horror Duels he forces synchronise nicely with Sorrows and insidious madness. I have also managed to summon a couple of Alps onto the board from him which was fun making things slow to be able to gain a bit more Misery damage off of

[D_acolyte]

You deserve to be commended, if nothing else for being so open to trying lots of different models. A lot of times I get caught up in the group think and don't try to do what you did in these games, and just throw models in and see how they perform. Good job. 

 

Thank you. I have never been one to limit myself by the group tried and true thoughts.  Here is my thought on the group think in a nut shell: meta's are different, players are different, the tables are different and how we approach things are different so i assume the group think may have sum merit but ultimately this is different so I have to explore and see what works for me. I try to put a greater importance on my experience than the theory or the "how " things should work, one thing that has lead to some rather strange thing happening. I can tell you with certainty i did not go haphazardly though any list building and that they all contain things I wanted to try with her. This is probably one reason why I can never set aside table top games even after 15 years but my computer strategy games are now limited to the total war series and X com.

 

I have run Coppelius in my Pandora lists a few times now and he is quickly coming to be somewhat of a staple in my lists, he is great for hunting down opponent's scheme runners and building up a collection of eyes before moving back into the thick of things in the middle of the board where the Horror Duels he forces synchronise nicely with Sorrows and insidious madness. I have also managed to summon a couple of Alps onto the board from him which was fun making things slow to be able to gain a bit more Misery damage off of

 

He is good when you need a fast model and I love having him feed someone else an eye. Most of the time I use young for my scheme hunters. I have played Coppelius a lot with my dreamer and i have never actually summoned an Alp, i find the df buff and the healing more helpful. I really should give them a try.

[Deluge]

He is good when you need a fast model and I love having him feed someone else an eye. Most of the time I use young for my scheme hunters. I have played Coppelius a lot with my dreamer and i have never actually summoned an Alp, i find the df buff and the healing more helpful. I really should give them a try.

It's not something that I would actively try to do but I needed the additional activations and to slow down a couple of my opponents models as I was somewhat depleted at that point so for me in that game at that time it was the right move. Plus the additional duals caused by the Alps helped drain the cards from my opponents hand making Coppelius's own duals have more of an impact.