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Edit: tried it a third time and it worked!! Thanks so much! I love it when strangers help strangers

App doesn't get past wyrd logo on my Nexus 5x. Works great on my Samsung S2 tablet, though!

My .02 after a month: I primarily play Mah, never with Lenny, though I understand why others would (I'm happy to stone for Out for Blood). I played 2-3 roosters depending on the "competitiveness" of the game, i.e. 3 roosters in later rounds against players I know to be good. Roosters were arguably the very best 6ss model in the game before, so I totally support taking them down a peg, but without the 3rd AP, they simply don't make the cut. Even in my Mah crew, where they can get big melee attack buffs, I'm down to one rooster, who is pretty clearly the least important model in my crew now. I keep him because I love the model.

Rooster cuddles hurt a lot. Mah is a fairly light on synergy master, but she does synergize well with Ml stuff, and Roosters were insanely good with her (+1 Ml Roosters were unreal). Before the cuddle, I found her more than capable of winning when bringing Frank + 2 Roosters (3 if I expected my opponent to have a tier 1 crew). With roosters now pretty much never making the cut, I'm not sure Mah has a place in a tournament set. It's not like she can't win, but she's not likely to be the optimal choice. This is as much because our faction is so rich with good models as anything else. Mah is still a far better master than many masters in other factions.

Beware that paralyze Pandora wrecks Molly and McMourning.

Reva has that "win big" aspect that can make a master feel very OP, like Sonnia. That said, I don't think she makes it into the "S" tier of masters. I got surprised by Reva in my last tournament and really got my butt kicked. Luckily, my poor sleep-deprived opponent (who otherwise played brilliantly) fixated on the wrong scheme at the end and handed me the draw (and thus the tournament). Since that game, though, all I see are ways I could have controlled that game better and won it handily. I had to slip up for Reva to win. Maybe I'm wrong, in which case, go Ressers

It's a nasty list. The core is: Pandora, Voices, Aether Connection, Wings of Darkness Nekima Lilitu Doppelganger Primordial Magic Typical flex stuff: Upgrades talked about in this thread Soulstones (I aim for 6 or 7) Scheme runners Spawn Mother + Wisp

I've been finding this list in Neverborn to be extremely effective: I'm currently in a league where I'm playing Gremlins, and I played Gremlins this last weekend in a local single-day tournament (to a very narrow victory, taking first by +1 VPDiff), so naturally, I've wondered how well my Zoraida list might translate to Gremlins. So far, I've not found it as strong in the fight, but I do love added scheme-running the rooster brings. Here is my list at the moment (still very much WIP): Zoraida, Tarot Reading McTavish Trixie Iggy Spawn Mother 2 Wisps Rooster 3 SS flex The biggest weakness I've found so far is having a killer master dive you. Zoraida just can't touch masters beyond bewitch. In the Neverborn crew, you have Doppel + McTavish to punish overly aggressive masters. In the Gremlin crew, you only have McTavish, and maybe the rooster if he hasn't run off scheming early game. On top of that, you won't have the monster cheat hand, since you lose Wings of Darkness. You also don't have Iggy duplication, which means getting your Voodoo to sky-high burning doesn't happen. I'm half-tempted to put Trixie into "flex", though I'm not sure what else really goes in aside from more Roosters. What are your experiences with Competitive Zoraida in Gremlins?

I wonder if old major with a saddle would make for some silly shenanigans: move whisperer up with saddle, whisperer activates and sooey, then stick em on the swine cursed. Now the swine cursed are around 12" up and getting attack and damage on the reactivate. Just need a safe place to turn piggy earlier in the turn. Glowy major isn't a slouch, either. Takes lots of cards, but with Cranky and Sammy cycling, it doesn't seem too unlikely, and the cursed get the flips to offset the loss of cards.

Nice! Some great stuff here. I will have to try these

There seems to be debate on Out for Blood and whether it is worth the hefty investment, so I figured I'd chime in on my experience so far. I find Mah is far more relevant in my games where I take Out for Blood. While expensive, it gives me that extra oomph needed for the alpha-strike turn. So often, without it, you can't turn on Bane of Kneecaps, which loses you a precious 2" and 1 Ml. Also, with two charges on that key turn, you not only get the extra attacks, but you can do some awesome positioning shenanigans that let you really exploit your triggers. I find I can much more reliably end her leaping spree back in safety, having shoved my enemy into Frank's waiting arms (and am also now back in companion range). It's one of those things where, yeah, you pay a lot more for what seems like a single AP than most masters would, but in practice, I find it has far more impact than just that. It makes the alpha-strike possible, where without it, I find Mah's activations to be mostly irrelevant because I can't finish anything off, or I can't quite chain to Frank, or I can't quite reach. Anyhow, my .02. Combined with the FAQ that lets her push herself, I think Mah is relevant, rather than just worse than Ophelia.

When I go about building a Wong crew, I find myself rarely having stones for Swine-cursed. Wong really wants Sammy, McTavish/Lazarus, Cranky and Trixie. Without Sammy, you can't take A Gremlin's Luck, which greatly reduce's Wong's threat. Without McTavish, you are missing the key offense of the crew. Without Trixie, you can't position McTavish as easily, you don't have the awesome scheme dropping powers, and you don't have initiative cheat, which is amazing for a blaster. Without Cranky, you are missing a 4ss significant model with amazing auras and particularly awesome synergy with McTavish and Sammy. So now you have 18 ss left, which always seem better spent on Roosters/Bugs/Bayous than Swine-cursed. Do I drop A Gremlin's Luck and Sammy? Am I just crazy, and the last 18 ss should be 2 swine-cursed and schemes be-damned? Maybe I drop a Gremlin's Luck and Sammy and rely on Wong and Trixie to run my schemes?

Short of it is Lilitu + Doppelganger. I open with Spawn Mother + Wisp + Gupps to eat 3 activations (sometimes the Gupps has to wait for safety). From there, it is tricky to explain because it goes about very differently based on crews, terrain and the pool. Suffice it to say, my opponents often don't see it coming because it isn't quite obvious how I will string it all together. If your opponent can't pull an activated model back, then just lure it in. Often they can, however, so you may be better off luring Doppel forward so she can triple lure. Getting three lures in can mean your opponent is now out of range of help. Then there is also lure-chaining Pandora or Nekima up the board. This can be the right call against low-threat crews. Finally, looking for the right double-incite can help a lot. Low WP first target is a great thing because you can usually cheat second, meaning a moderate tome is sufficient. Note that this competes with the moderate tome the doppel wants, so maybe you stone. Really though, turn 1 aggression only matters when you think you're going to be pressed for time to finish the game.

BTW, I've found this list to pretty much be ideal. At least I haven't found any good improvements on it: Zoraida, Wings of Darkness, 7ss McTavish, Thousand Faces Doppel Lilitu Iggy Spawn Mother 2 wisps

I happened to have a bunch of these OOP models: http://cadwallon.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/400x400/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/y/sylvananimaes_copy.jpg Swords removed for baubles. Not terribly helpful for others, I'm afraid. I'm considering making some out of my old ork squigs and some fae wings.

Yeah, it's the version later in the thread, with the spawn mother and wisps.

With wisps, Zoraida is one of our most powerful masters now. I posted a list a while back that is absolutely nasty, to the point that I don't play it outside of tournament play anymore (or tournament preparation). It's heinously powerful, and actually not fun for opponents that aren't playing highly-tuned lists, as it can table them by turn 3 without them having any recourse. Played without either wisps or specifically strong builds, Zoraida is lacking. That's why they gave her the wisps Bad Juju is weak with Zoraida, because she can't really help him with his biggest flaw: mobility. Lilith can move him ~22" in a single AP, completely ignoring terrain the whole way, including LOS! Zoraida? Needs a 7 to give him a walk of 4". Starting him buried only really works with wisps using from the shadows, because they are cheap and annoying enough that your opponent can't afford to just ignore them. McTavish is OP, and awesome with Zoraida. Getting rid of him will almost never actually improve your list.

Not my list, but I'd guess they're activation control and buff fodder. His list has both the coryphee and Myranda, so it can do some nasty reactivation stuff on turn 1. With damage buff + activation control, I could see it surprising folks. Not entirely sure I personally don't hire any, but then I usually go for a strong turn 2.

Whoa! I didn't read that right the first time! I thought it undid the first attack. Wild! That said, it's not every turn you're blasting off a friendly, right?

Somer doesn't have "Ooo Glowy" to turn Swine Cursed into the OPness though and Zoraida just gained 2 AP per turn, more or less. While I agree that Somer can often make use of just about anything, Wong and Zoraida got huge "targeted" buffs. I do think Wong is going to be insanely strong now, and while I think Zoraida gained the most, Wong could actually be in contention for being our strongest non-interference master!

Boost? Zoraida hands down. She has taken on new life! Doesn't mean she's now the strongest, but she's definitely come up the most.

A couple more games with Spawn + Wisp and I do think that most every crew will want to consider it. Very strong. I don't think it's every game, unless your crew has particular synergy with it (e.g. Juju or McTavish), but I expect I'll run it as often as not in my Lilith and Pandora crews (and nearly always in my Zoraida crews). I even ran it in my Gremlin Zoraida build to great success. It is crows hungry, obviously, so that's another thing to think on before choosing it.

Well, yeah, "insanely good" is always hyperbolic So good you lose your mind? Not even sure what it technically means In context though, I am saying that it may be something so good that every Neverborn crew should consider it as a possible include. I have all of 2 games with it, so I am not certain of anything at this point! They were certainly great in those two games. As far as later Gupps, the turn 4 Gupp can absolutely find work on turn 5. Even the turn 5 gupp can count for interference/extraction/stash/occupy/take prisoner/inspection. Even more, however, is that you can look at the board and schemes and have a really good idea about how much work you'll get out of them, so those situations that are bad (getting the wisp killed, not having work for the 3rd+ Gupps) are something you can see coming. And "makes her better" is an understatement She nearly doubled her AP in effect!

Yep!

When you say "Nephilim", what do you mean? -Tots are great and see play in high-level tournaments. -Nekima is considered our top beater by the best UK players, and I would whole-heartedly agree. -Young Nephilim rarely see play, though I would argue only because we are so rich in amazing 4-7 SS models. They really aren't bad. Personally, though, I would go with Waldgeists or Illuminated. -The Mature Nephilim has no place Grow lists are a frustrating trap, and otherwise, you'd always rather take Nekima. Like the young, he's not bad, we just have much better (Neverborn have many amazingly good models) So sad that I missed this box Went out of stock while I was confirming my purchase! Also, if you like the fish, Spawn Mother + Wisp is insanely good. Might become a permanent fixture in the Neverborn Allstars.