Jack Daw Project

[SevenSins]

Nice looking crew there Sezar, carver makes a fitting montressor, I don't really like his fluff.... The stoic witness to the madness, with an upgrade called "maniacal laughter?" He doesn't seem like a laughing fellow in the book.... Carver... Yeah, fits my imagery better

[daniello_s]

Patzer, what would you think about this crew?

 

Outcasts Crew - 50 - Scrap

Jack Daw -- 4 Pool
 +Drowing Injustice [0]
 +Firing Squad Injustice [0]
 +Guillotine Injustice [0]
 +The Creeping Terror [1]
 +Twist and Turn [2]

Ama No Zako [9]
Jaakuna Ubume [6]
Montresor [9]
Nurse [5]
The Drowned [6]
The Guilty [5]
The Guilty [5]
 

General idea of the crew: get enemy in hazardous terrain, paralyze it and swallow it whole

[Drool_bucket]

I struggle with Ama No in a Jack Daw haz terrain bubble list.

 

She requires all sorts of hand holding and if you try to use Miasa it effects your models as well.

 

And if you are instead gonna work on trying to Swallow Whole things, its more rare then I feel it should be.  I still prefer Ama No running with Misaki and not much else...  she's a stone Whore and enough of a glass cannon/threat that when she pairs with more "laid back" crews she gets picked on.  (I've seen her used with Levi as well and that's nasty, too... but supports my idea, she is a head of a hydra attack, not a spear point)

 

I also prefer Creeping Terror on Jaakume so you can take another upgrade on Daw...  as well as freeing him up to move about a lot more.  (which he is very capable of)

 

Final thought, I basically always hire a The Hanged.  At 9ss they aren't cheap, especially if you are used to summoning them, but with Daw's "obeys" and "copies" you can get a lot out of the model before the opponent removes it.  Getting 2-3 extra, early game, WfB can really hamstring an opponent.

[daniello_s]

Thanks for comments Drool. I was hesitating between Ama and The Hanged.

 

Edit: I've just realized why I had Ama in the list - hazardous terrain. Now with Hanged there will be only Jaakuna with this trick... Hmmm...

[Patzer]

First off all, thanks to all who have posted, and pointed out corrections. Happy to see this gathered some interest!
 

Onto the good stuff. I said in the previous post that it was time for a run down of Jack Daw's crew, but that have to wait a turn. Hope you don't come after me with torches and pitchforks. Instead I will write about my first game with Daw (while I still can remember the nuances of that game).
 

We decided to play a 40ss game, since it was a first time go with our respective master for both players. I picked Daw, my opponent Lucius. I was a little bit scared of this since JD and crew doesn't like to be shot at. There were plenty of terrain scattered all round the board, providing with plenty of (ht2 hard and soft) cover. Between the rubble there was some shooting alleys. The centre had mostly soft cover. The perimeter of the board there were houses, one could go through them but all the windows where shut. We had standard deployment.
 

The schemes

Turf War

A Line in the Sand
Assissinate
Breakthrough
Deliver the Message
Vendetta
 

The crew I went with:
Outcasts Crew - 40 - Dustup

Jack Daw -- 4 Pool
 +Drowing Injustice [0]
 +Firing Squad Injustice [0]
 +Guillotine Injustice [0]
 +Twist and Turn [2]
 +Writhing Torment [2]

Freikorps Trapper [6]
Hodgepodge Effigy [4]
Johan [6]
Nurse [5]
Papa Loco [7]
 +Oath Keeper [1]
The Guilty [5]
 

While my opponent took:
Guild Crew - 40 - Dustup

Lucius -- 5 Pool
 +Legalese [1]
 +Secret Assets [2]

Death Marshal [6]
Francisco Ortega [8]
 +Wade In [1]
Guild Guard [4]
Guild Guard [4]
Guild Hound [3]
Guild Rifleman [5]
Guild Rifleman [5]
 

After revealing crews I was happy to see that there weren't too much shooting, but Franc and the Death Marshal would definitely mean big problems. I thought a bit about taking Deliver the Message, but in the end I opted for Breakthrough (announced) and Vendetta (Trapper on Death Marshall). My opponent revealed Deliver the Message and kept the other hidden.
 

I had to deploy first, and I placed most of my troops in the centre, Papa on the left flank, while the Trapper was placed on a ht 3 rubble somewhat near the middle on the right flank, with a healthy view of the board.
 

My opponent deployed similarly, but one of the Guild Guards and the Dog were placed at the left flank. The trapper put a dent into his positioning, and he had to deal with it quickly.
 

Turn 1.

Mostly positioning. My opponent managed to nifty move his troops into cover (Lucius moved them around like crazy), but he over extended the Guild Hound slightly who my Trapper was able to one shot with a lucky damage flip after triggering Critical Strike. My Guilty made Johan Tormented. Most of my forces moved into cover. Papa were behind the last hard cover just behind the centre line on his flank. Jack was 13" away from him near the middle. Lucius also tried to shoot Papa, but I lucked out and flipped the red joker. 
 

Turn 2.

I really wanted to get the initiative on this turn, otherwise Papa would be in a though spot once again. The Guild Guard were closing in on him, and I didn't wan't him to either be killed by the combined effort of the GG and Hidden Sniper, or simply tied up. 5-7 flip to my opponent, I burned a stone, flipped an 11, my opponent did the same and flipped the same. We re flipped and it was 10-9 to my favour. My opponent decided to let it go.

I activated JD, walked twice in order to be within 7" of Papa, took my 3rd AP to copy his Throw Dynamite on the GG. It connected for 1 damage. Then the fun stared. First I made Papa Walk once with Twist and Turn. Then Papa activated thanks to Companion and burned Oathkeeper. He pushed 3" off Writhing Torment and were getting awfully close to the heart of the opposing crew. He walked 4" and were within range of the GG, Lucius, and a Rifleman. I used the "blow me up"-thing twice, which killed the Rifleman and Guild Guard. Lucius got out of it unharmed, but that took Soulstones and cards.

 

My opponent answered with an aggressive placement of Franc, who boosted Lucius. My Trapper then scaled off some wounds of the DM. It then engaged my Trapper and tried to box it. I managed to stay out thanks to a 13. Lucius went mental later in the turn. He snipped some wounds of JD, made a rifleman kill my Hodgepodge, had the left GG walk once, and made the DM pine box my Trapper. My Guilty started to run out on the right flank while the rest of my crew headed into the middle. The left GG engaged Jack.
 

Both scored for Turf War. The GG could deliver the message the following turn.
 

Turn 3.
 

I won initiative. I had Jack in a pretty good spot, with LoS to Lucius and my own troops. I hit the GG with Guillotine Injustice and made it walk away with Twist and Turn. I then made Lucius get the Drowning Injustice after a lucky flip. With my last AP I made it through some rubble. Away from most dangerous things.
 

Drowning Injustice hampered Lucius a lot. The Duels had drawn some card out of opponents hand already, so he wasn't too eager to loose more, neither was he eager to take wounds of Lucius. He thought about taking damage with Lucius in order for the GG to get back into position to Deliver the Message. I explained that Writhing Torment would still push the GG away, so he wouldn't be able to do it anyway. So he opted for having Lucius dropping the Curse and let the GG walk down the Flank away from JD. He shot JD with Hidden Sniper for 3 more wounds. Franc then made it after JD, but missed the swing. Johan charged him and could get him down to his Hard to Kill. The Rifleman tried to shoot the Nurse but missed. The Nurse answered with Paralyzing Franc and walked once, about at the centreline.
 

My opponent only had two cards left in his hand at this point and decided to activate his GG. He threw the Cards thanks to the Curse and walked twice. My Guilty kept on sneaking up the Flank. The DM then activated, lost the WP duel to my Trapper and couldn't box it again. I had a high ram left in my hand, so I activated the trapper scorched a card for its (0). Then managed to kill the DM. Netting me 3vp for vendetta.
 

Both scored for Turf war. Score was now 5-2.

 

Turn 4. My opponent won initiative. Activated the GG. Ditched two cards for Guillotine, walked once and dropped a marker. I then activated Jack. Made the Nurse walk once with Twist and Turn. I then walked through some rubble, shot the Rifleman with Suppressed Memories, attaching Firing Squad to it. I shot it once again with the same attack; leaving it on 2 wounds. Thus, it would be unable to attack anything.

 

My opponent activated the Rifleman and turned the upgrade. My Nurse then walked once and hit my Guilty up for +2 walk. My opponent then activated Franc. I answered with putting him out of his misery by a flurrying Johan. Lucius then made the Rifleman fire at the Nurse with a Focused shot, she got hit but triggered Hands Off in order to get an additional push. Lucius couldn't get hidden sniper off, but made the Rifleman walk within 2" of Jack, just outside of the Rifleman's ml-range. Lucius also had to get out of his hiding in order to not lose a VP from the strategy. Guilty walked once and Dropped a marker. The Trapper walked after the Guilty.
 

Both once again scored from Turf War, score 6-3 to me.
 

Turn 5.
 

My opponent won initiative 5-3. I used my last Soulstone and flipped a 6 (!!!!). My opponent were out of Soulstones at the point too. I activated Jack. Got Drowning Injustice back from Lucius, killed the Rifleman with my first AP. I then charged Lucius. First attack connected, and I attached Drowning Injustice, dealning 3 damage on a moderate. He tossed a card for Highest Authority, but had to cheat for the duel too. My opponent then activated the GG. Dropped Cards, and placed another marker. My Guilty did the same. Lucius then activated, got pushed back a little bit by Daw, he then used Highest Authority to get JD on a negative for the Disengaging Strike (which was a mint move, take notes everyone). He then walked twice towards the Guilty's markers. He couldn't take another Walk since that would kill him, but that step would have made him be within range of both scheme markers the Guilty had placed in the far away corner. My Nurse and Trapper would still have been able to put down enough markers for the Breakthrough. Still, sneaky move! And that was pretty much game. The unrevealed scheme was of course Breakthrough.
 

I scored the whole full 10 vp, while my opponent got 5.
 

Post game thoughts.
 

Jack Daw performed really well. The amount of movement he can provide for his crew is ridiculous. For example, there were a lot of times I didn't plan how to use Johan properly since he usually needs to spend a lot of his AP moving. With Jack moving him around, he suddenly could be so much more than what he usually is. This has me drooling over what he can do with Taelor and Lazarus!

The game was closer than what the final score might show too. There was a lot of chances here and there for my opponent to score off his schemes, but Jack proved to be very slippery. The Papa Loco-bomb provided to be quite good. I first thought about letting the Nurse give +2 walk to Papa, but Jack's pushes was more than enough. My opponent said after the game that he didn't expect Jack to be able to move him that far a head. In hindsight he would have committed Lucius and a Guild Guard to care off Papa, but once again, Daw made the crew very hard to pin down thanks to all of the pushes. My opponent also thought that taking Deliver was a mistake. I cannot disagree with that. Besides some nifty Neverborn tricks, there aren't a lot of models that can pin down Jack in order to get the message delivered. All he had to do was to get models Tormented and he was safe.
 

Another thing my opponent expressed was a real pain was playing with a lot less cards. The Curses depleted his hands completely. He didn't want to Soulstone for more cards at times since if his hand would be good, it would only mean that he would have to throw away good cards.
 

Speaking of the Curses. He said that he would much rather would have had his models paralyzed. The Curses just made its' carriers life miserable, and that spilled over to the rest of the crew when you account for all the cards that where discarded.
 

All and all, I really liked what Jack could do. The anti-McCabe description is quite spot on, but it misses that he still has plenty of crew support too. The Curses were a real pain for my opponent, and the really changed the outcome of the game. They are a bit tricky to get into a constant flow, I feel like getting a proper feel for this is a big part in unlocking Daw's potential.
 

Until next time

// Tom

[Kadeton]

Scary stuff! Thanks for the report - I suspect that Jack's gameplay (heavy mobility, denial) is slightly quicker to pick up than Lucius' (force multiplication), so it will be interesting to see a rematch once you're both more familiar with the Masters.

[Sezar]

Thanks for the write up! Looks like a pretty interesting and fun game!

Anyway, it looks like you should have not gotten the full 3 VPs off Vendetta, but just 2 VP, since the first Attack Action the Trapper did was against the Guild Hound. Righ?

[Bengt]

Thanks for the write up! Looks like a pretty interesting and fun game!

Anyway, it looks like you should have not gotten the full 3 VPs off Vendetta, but just 2 VP, since the first Attack Action the Trapper did was against the Guild Hound. Righ?

Nah, you always get 3 VP if the your designated model killed the opponents designated model. You only get 2 VP if your model's first attack was on the opponent model and something else killed it.

[Sezar]

OMG, you're totally right! I've been always playing it wrong, hahaha

And the worst of it, it is pretty clearly written on the car!

[zFiend]

Cool report. Jacky sure sounds like a Douchenozzle.

Also I think he would get full for vendetta. There was a thread about it a while back and apparently the wording is so that you can do anything to anything just kill the model with the vendetta and that's it. Makes it a piss easy 3vp.

[Patzer]

Cool report. Jacky sure sounds like a Douchenozzle.

Also I think he would get full for vendetta. There was a thread about it a while back and apparently the wording is so that you can do anything to anything just kill the model with the vendetta and that's it. Makes it a piss easy 3vp.

The scheming player notes one of her non-Leader, non-Peon models with a Soulstone cost greater than 0 and an enemy model with a Soulstone cost equal to or greater than her chosen model. If the noted friendly model’s first Attack Action in the game is against the noted model, score 1 VP and reveal this Scheme. If the noted enemy model is not in play at the end of the game, and this Scheme has been revealed, score 1 additional VP. If the noted enemy model is killed by the noted friendly model, score 3 VP (whether or not the Scheme was revealed). This Scheme may not be revealed at the start of the game.

 

Interesting. Can you explain that interpenetration, because I can't really see it  

[zFiend]

Well what you did in the game. You shot others models with the Trapper and then just took the kill shot against the DM.

[Bengt]

Well what you did in the game. You shot others models with the Trapper and then just took the kill shot against the DM.

Well that does not necessarily equate to "piss easy". The Trapper might have an "accident", the DM might obliviously meander around out of LoS of the trapper. All sorts of things could happen.

[zFiend]

Well that does not necessarily equate to "piss easy". The Trapper might have an "accident", the DM might obliviously meander around out of LoS of the trapper. All sorts of things could happen.

True. But it's not like the Trapper is rooted in his place unable to adapt to situations and if you let the Trapper have an accident, well then it's on you.

[Kogan Style]

The scheming player notes one of her non-Leader, non-Peon models with a Soulstone cost greater than 0 and an enemy model with a Soulstone cost equal to or greater than her chosen model. If the noted friendly model’s first Attack Action in the game is against the noted model, score 1 VP and reveal this Scheme. If the noted enemy model is not in play at the end of the game, and this Scheme has been revealed, score 1 additional VP. If the noted enemy model is killed by the noted friendly model, score 3 VP (whether or not the Scheme was revealed). This Scheme may not be revealed at the start of the game.

 

Interesting. Can you explain that interpenetration, because I can't really see it

 

Its the "if the noted enemy model is killed by the noted friendly model, score 3 VP (whether or not the Scheme was revealed)..." sentence. There are two routes to 3VP for Vendetta:

1. Model hits V.Target - Announce and score 1 VP, then EITHER V.Target is killed score 1 VP (2VP altogether) OR Model kills V.Target score 2 VP (3 VP altogether)

2. Model kills V.Target - Score 3 VP

This means if you can score 3 VP even if your first attack action isn't against the target (for example you got obeyed, or you forgot about Vendetta), you just can't score any VP if someone/something else kills the target. This is where HtK targets come in handy.

If you get the hit and announce, then you can get the 2 VP for anybody killing the V.Target, but now your opponent knows that you are trying to kill that model and which model you are trying to kill it with.

 

[zFiend]

Its the "if the noted enemy model is killed by the noted friendly model, score 3 VP (whether or not the Scheme was revealed)..." sentence. There are two routes to 3VP for Vendetta:

1. Model hits V.Target - Announce and score 1 VP, then EITHER V.Target is killed score 1 VP (2VP altogether) OR Model kills V.Target score 2 VP (3 VP altogether)

2. Model kills V.Target - Score 3 VP

This means if you can score 3 VP even if your first attack action isn't against the target (for example you got obeyed, or you forgot about Vendetta), you just can't score any VP if someone/something else kills the target. This is where HtK targets come in handy.

If you get the hit and announce, then you can get the 2 VP for anybody killing the V.Target, but now your opponent knows that you are trying to kill that model and which model you are trying to kill it with.

This. HtK is a joy in vendetta pools.

[Patzer]

I am just a little amazed this is news, that is why I asked. First thought Zfiend was referring to something different.

 

Kogan Style, good point on targeting HtK-models!

 

I like Vendetta a lot, due to that you can tackle it in different ways. Either being really sneaky and not hitting the target first, or by tagging something that you know must commit and get 2vp for it. The latter is better in low scoring scheme pools, cagey players, or if you are confident that you can deny a strategy point. 

[Adran]

In the theme of sneaky Jack ploys, I pulled of a nice move last night where I Used my 0 From Twist and Turn to make a Guilty take an action and tag an already activated  model with Curse object. The Guilty then activated, was pushed out of combat by Jack, and then was able to walk up th a squat marker to steal it from the otherside,

 

I also Found a tormented Ashes and Dust is quite a sight to behold. Thank you Malifaux child for tormenting him. (via do it like this to borrow the 1 action from twist and turn to borrow the become tormented action from a guilty).

 

Montressor looked impressive but died very easily with very little actual effort from the opponent. Molly summoning models with Black blood does quickly get through his wounds. But I ended up with a 9-5 victory, denying 3 squat points and a last turn dash with the guilty and the Malifaux child to one of the 2 scheme markers the Cruligan was protecting costing him 2 Vp from protect territory, with me only dropping 1 make them suffer point becuase my attempt was to obey the cruligan to range of Ama, but I black jokered the obey, and then next turn when she charged the 1 wound Punk Zombie, she failed to hit him.

Drownign Injustice was very Nice against molly, who has some very good tactical actions, especially when she takes Gorgons Tear. Summoning abominations with Ashes and dust is alos very good against Molly. Low wound models are easy to turn into more Abominations, and suit and 0 removal is very good!

[Patzer]

Good stuff Adran! Really liked the sneaky move with the Guilty.

 

Have you gotten any mileage out of Montessor another time? To me, he doesn't add up.

[Adran]

It was my first time of using him. And whilst i'll admit it wasn't his best opponent, I diddn't see much to encourage me to take him again. May be my style, as I had 3 big beasts on the center 3 squat markers, with 2 of the flipped on turn 1, which kind of puts them up for potential retribution. Ama went on Scheme runner hunting, pretty well, as Montressor wasn't going to be able to stop cruligans when he had taken Cursed object. (and happily healed up the damage she took)

I also wasn't hugely impressed with his damage either.

[MudgeBlack]

Great write ups and commentaries. Got me wanting to play JD some more, hopefully I'll get in a game tonight.

[MudgeBlack]

Thanks to you all inspiring me I got in a game with Daw last night and had a great time.

I finally got the hang of handing out curses efficiently (and ripping some back off) to have some control over my opponents pieces.

Montressor did some damage and Shennanigans and got me Frame for Murder (I figure I always seem to get him killed so may as well get some VP out of it).  Legia actually managed to catch 3 of his models in her no cheat aura and really helped out a lot there until my opponent had enough of her and nuked her.  But I feel she earned her keep for once (or maybe I finally didn't let her down...).

 

Daw vs Ophelia

 

50SS

Daw  pool of 6

-Drowning

-FSI

-Guillotine

-T & T

-Writhing

Lady Legia

Convict Gunslinger

-Oath Keeper

Montressor

-Fearful Whispers

-The Creeping Terror

The Guilty

The Guilty

The Hanged

 

The Guilty netted me Outflank (hidden) quite handily and as mentioned before I got Frame for Murder plus killed his Bodyguard (Lenny).

I failed to grab any of the heads for Headhnter while my opponent grabbed 4 plus his Breakthrough for a final 5-7 Gremlins outcome. 

Sorry I can't remember all of his list or enough of the game to do a proper write up, it was my first game in 2 or 3 months, so I was more focused on remembering mechanics.

[Kalkris]

I used Montresor for a while in my Jack lists, but nixed him quickly because he was not pulling his weight. He's too weak defensively to do what he wants to be doing - namely, clumping enemies near to him. His actions seem too single-model focused at a given point to do what he wants, and by the time the choice model is near Montresor, Monty folds to it. "Okay, so snipe little dudes with him," I hear you say. But that's just it. If he snipes 10ss of models without being killed himself, he's pulling equal weight (assuming no summons are involved - then it mucks things up highly). That's assuming he has a 1ss upgrade on him, like The Creeping Terror, by the way. But I am thinking that he is not good enough to kill 2-3 models himself in the course of 5 turns, from deployment to end. He needs more models surrounding him, as if he were a beacon of sorts, in order to pull that off. The trouble with that is then you're devoting even more stones into this job, probably about 20-22ss total, to gun down a couple of small models (5-7ss range, henchmen need not apply). You might kill 21ss worth of little dudes and break even, but that seems to me to be the best case scenario, when you should be focusing on your objectives. This is why I omit Monty nowadays.

 

I also haven't bothered to take any Guilty, or Ligeia, yet. My rationale is just that they aren't out yet, but when I get ahold of them they will be used. I will use Ligeia (albeit with more testing than other models as she seems frail), and 1-2 Guilty (probably one per friendly non-Tormented model in need of harassment, lol). I have heard such good things about Guilty though; how do they stack up with the likes of The Drowned, or Crooked Men, both of which are units I take in pairs pretty religiously?

 

Jaakuna has been such a champ for me, meanwhile. Her bubble of muck is a good time for me and horrible for foes. Nurses are oodles of fun too (though I stick to one most of the time).

 

I still don't take Papa Loco as he seems like such a liability. I don't have Ama no Zako yet but I'm getting this vibe in the thread that she is finicky and almost hit/miss.

 

What do you all think of the inclusion of McTavish? McT provides a good shot, and an anti-focus aura, which is even expandable via harassment towards McT.

 

Big side note: I think calling the Guilty's "Feel Their Torment" action "harassment" is kind of funny. I expect there are some who would not. And to those few, vocal or otherwise, I apologize. But yeah, that's what I am referring to when I mention harassment.

 

~Lil Kalki

[Rathnard]

You know i was thinking about moving on to Gremlins for the next year or so but damnit - this thread is seriously making me wonder if i should just go back to Outcasts and Jack Daw instead.

Jack Daw is awesome and thus so is this thread. I'll be watching with interest.

[Patzer]

Kalkris, the Guilty are really good. You will most times only need one, but two can be very useful too (don't need to run them in pairs I think). They are a jack of all trade kind of model, and can provide with a lot of synergy for your own crew.

 

Papa Loco is more reward than risk, but there is certainly a risk. Daw and a Nurse can speed him up so darn much that he can keep in cover but still get places. The fact that Jack can copy Papa's ranged attack too is pretty darn neat.

 

I don't know if McTavish is worth 11ss, without any Swampfiend friends, especially when the Outcasts have so many good options at 10ss. For instance, I would hire the Strongarm Suit over him any day with Daw.

 

Rathnard, come on mate, ditch the green skin! Also, aren't you "supposed" to play Ressers this year?