Disappointed

[Red_Starrise]

Wyrd;

I just wanted to voice my disappointment at how you're handling the cards for M2E. The fact that I bought your expensive miniatures to begin with and then you made them obsolete, ruleswise, with the new edition is ok, that happens. However, the fact that you now charge me for the cards for them which you gave the updated versions of for free last time really irks me.

I mean, you might as well have just done codex army books like GW rather than the card method. I'd be willing to buy a new rulebook just fine, but one of the biggest reasons I no longer play warhammer 40k is that I have to keep buying new codices. I realize the cards aren't that expensive, but you have to realize that if I have to buy say... 3 boxes of new stat cards per faction I play in order to bring my minis up to date OR buy the updated versions of those minis is probably putting me out of this game.

[Bigmike]

I hate to tell you this but if you want to play miniature games than you have to make peace with buying updated info when a new edition comes out, GW does codex's, PIP does faction decks, malifaux does faction decks. I would like to also point out that comparing an $8 balanced faction deck to a $40+ unbalanced codex is not fair

[Sklertic]

All upgrades and stat cards for wave 1 is in the 2.0 rulebook. If you're on a tight budget, then copy the pages and make portable cards that way. All plastic boxes has the updated cards included, just fyi.

Coming from Warhammer 40k and calling Malifaux expensive is a pretty bold statement.

[rancor709]

Bit of good news for the wallet concisous. the second wave will be available as pdf in february before it goes to plastic cards. And all of wave 1 is in the rule book proper.

[Poko]

I hate to tell you this but if you want to play miniature games than you have to make peace with buying updated info

I could give you a good dozen or more examples of companies which release stats (or even books) for free as they do drive sales of minis, but tis a season of cheer so I will just say that in the grand scheme the arsenal cards are indeed at least cheap.

[thebarbalag]

Given that Malifaux is perhaps the least, or at least among the least costly game in what is, comparatively, a very inexpensive hobby (consider for a moment, the dollar per hour value of a model compared, say, to fishing, or golf equipment, or if you really want to look at expensive entertainment, going to the movies), I don't know that the "Wyrd is screw its customers over" argument is ever going get much traction.

Given the quality shift from first to second edition, in both rules and miniatures, for the better, we have two things to do, accept, that if we want our game to evolve and improve, someone should be getting paid for it, and happily pony up, or reevaluate whether this is the game, or hobby, for us. For me, I'm happy to toss more money at Wyrd. If you're not, well, sorry to see you go, but one must follow one's own bliss.

[Mason]

All upgrades and stat cards for wave 1 is in the 2.0 rulebook. If you're on a tight budget, then copy the pages and make portable cards that way. All plastic boxes has the updated cards included, just fyi.

Coming from Warhammer 40k and calling Malifaux expensive is a pretty bold statement.

Yeah, this. If you buy the core book, you have all the stat cards for all the wave one models right there, just like you would in a 40k codex.

Just think of Wave 1 book + Wave 2 book = 40k core books + codex book and you actually end up being cheaper than 40k the moment you pick up a second faction (as you're not required to pick up a second codex to play that faction).

[Omenbringer]

Yeah, this. If you buy the core book, you have all the stat cards for all the wave one models right there, just like you would in a 40k codex.

Just think of Wave 1 book + Wave 2 book = 40k core books + codex book and you actually end up being cheaper than 40k the moment you pick up a second faction (as you're not required to pick up a second codex to play that faction).

You will need to download a few cards that have received an errata from the Malifaux: Bad Things Happen website if you have one of the first printing Malifaux second edition books. The second printings though are supposed to have the errata's in them (with each additional printing receiving any new official erratas).

[Ausplosions]

Free stuff.

Is not how a business makes money.

[Gorbad]

I could give you a good dozen or more examples of companies which release stats (or even books) for free as they do drive sales of minis, but tis a season of cheer so I will just say that in the grand scheme the arsenal cards are indeed at least cheap.

Different business decisions for different companies. Its going to come down to what the company think is the best strategy for them. You can probably find examples of pretty much any way of handling this you can think of.

But looking at it now, wave one is out and exist in both the rulebook and a faction deck. Wave 2 will be available as a free PDF, since all we know about wave 3 is that its avatars and a generic upgrade or two I can't see them doing individual faction decks, so who know how they will release that. But you can get everything bar the avatars by buying the main rulebook. The cards are really just play aids.

[Poko]

Different business decisions for different companies.

And yet they're all in the same business of small scale skirmish gaming. And yes, of course you can find companies doing various strategies ,but why be among the ones charging for what's essentially a freebie to the models? If someone wants to play malifaux wihtout buying the models hell do it anyway using the beta cards so you can't even say you're losing money on it.

[Mike3838]

Buy the rulebook - you have Wave 1. You'll be wanting the rulebook anyway.

Download the Wave 2 cards - they'll be free.

Likewise for Wave 3 when it comes out.

Total extra outlay for all your M2E updated models = £0

If you want to spend money on extra stuff, you have that option too. I have no idea what you're complaining about.

[Zac]

Evil Wyrd. Wanting to be paid for the work they do.

[Ausplosions]

Evil Wyrd. Wanting to be paid for the work they do.

Surely they realise that by giving everything for M2D away for free thy will make money.

Right?

Right?

[Poko]

Oh well, I guess wyrd must be doing not that good if they can't afford what even spartan games (or corvus belli, to mention possibly the biggest name in skirmish gaming recently) did and give away stats for miniatures for free. Especially when said stats were largely refined by the community anyway, and I dont think they were being paid for it....

Edited December 26, 2013 by Poko

[Ausplosions]

Oh well, I guess wyrd must be doing not that good if they can't afford what even spartan games did and give away stats for miniatures for free. Especially when said stats were largely refined by the community anyway, and I dont think they were being paid for it....

I honestly can't tell if you are being serious...

But I really hope you aren't. Because that is a fairly ridiculous statement to make..

No one forced you to assist and then refused to pay you.

You helped voluntarily. If you expected payment, then it's a job you're looking for, not a hobby...

[Poko]

No one forced you to assist and then refused to pay you.

You missed the point.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Poko

[edonil]

Wyrd and Spartan are not the same companies. They don't have the same revenue streams, employees, warehouses, or even taxes. Comparing one to another and declaring one lacking is not very useful. Privateer Press doesn't release new rules for free. Even when they rolled over from Mk I to Mk II, they did the same thing Wyrd did. Games Workshop makes you buy several $50+ books in order to roll over to the new edition. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to play the new edition.

[Zac]

Giving away stats for miniatures for free is not what that is. You would actually be paying to hand out the stats, either through printing or bandwidth. That's OK with a small game which is growing: it's a price the company will pay to build the fan base. For a larger game, which Malifaux now is, the price is much higher due to the larger player base.

So no, I don't really think Wyrd are doing badly. I think they're doing well. Malifaux is on the up, version 2 is getting good reviews, and I want the game to continue. If you think that the cost of an arsenal deck is too high for the hours of work put in, the quality of the cards, and the fun you will have playing the game, then you should probably stick to chess. One outlay, and no updates ever.

[Mike3838]

So apparently companies only charge for their products if they're not doing very well. When they're doing well, they give away their products for free. What a bizarre opinion.

I'll refer you to previous posts in this very thread which point out that you can get *all* the M2E model rules for free. Did you not see those?

[Nagash1959]

Yeah...years and years of supporting GW's kids college education has stopped me from feeling bad about a simple 8 bucks for a pack of cards. I'm cool with buying replacement cards for models I already got. If I was still playing Warmahordes at the time I'd have done it for that too without issue.

[WookieeGunner]

You do realize that:

1) Handing out the rule book for free is something Spartan Games recently started doing, initially you had to buy it.

2) Selling the Arsenal Packs is what the Malifaux community has been asking Wyrd to do for a long time.

so this really is a different companies with different customer bases (and before you say "they are the same customer base" how many people do you know that play both? I know exactly zero.) handling things in the way they think the majority of their customers will be most appreciative.

[Repeter]

I'm ****ed that Wyrd is making new plastic versions of models I already have in metal. I'm forced to buy them because they are so cool. Then, I have to paint them again, which is like me giving Wyrd free work...well...it's something like that, anyway.

Sorry, this is the thread we come with our ridiculous, 1st world problems, right?

[RayofPaint]

Wyrd;

I just wanted to voice my disappointment at how you're handling the cards for M2E. The fact that I bought your expensive miniatures to begin with and then you made them obsolete, ruleswise, with the new edition is ok, that happens. However, the fact that you now charge me for the cards for them which you gave the updated versions of for free last time really irks me.

I mean, you might as well have just done codex army books like GW rather than the card method. I'd be willing to buy a new rulebook just fine, but one of the biggest reasons I no longer play warhammer 40k is that I have to keep buying new codices. I realize the cards aren't that expensive, but you have to realize that if I have to buy say... 3 boxes of new stat cards per faction I play in order to bring my minis up to date OR buy the updated versions of those minis is probably putting me out of this game.

As has been said, you can get ALL of this for free with a little work on your own part. The cards are a premium product, and hardly mandatory to enjoy the game.

I get that it's frustrating to look at paying an extra $20+ to get cards for models you already own, but Malifaux is hardly an expensive hobby to get in to. Find me another popular 28-30mm game where you can play the equivalent of a 50 SS game for less than $100. A small skirmish game like this doesn't require us to buy legions of models, nor is the entire game designed to make us buy duplicate models/units to be competitive. I mean I'm new to Malifaux, and I was shocked at the low entry fee for the game, and that's including the arsenal decks and a fate deck.

[Arli]

I agree. I am a relatively new player. I got into Malifaux because my local gaming group stopped playing Warhammer Fantasy and Mordhiem. I got into the malifaux right at the time that beta testing opened for the M2E rules. I had already purchased a Ten Thunders box with a box of TT archers (to use as a human monk warband for Mordhiem). I put maybe $35 bucks into the hobby to start.

I do not mind buying the new rules or the arsenal decks because the price is reasonable. I applaud the work that Wyrd has put into this game. Primarily because I have grown tired of the the outrageous price expectations of Games Workshop (and the plain, uninteresting models that they use).