Joel Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 He is not. Ancestor, Object 2 and Undead. Thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarsnick Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Dumb stuff about using an action that uses Wp on an Immune to Influence model \/ \/ Thanks \/\/ Edited January 2, 2013 by Sarsnick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Not on Izamu without Pandora. Izamu is Immune to Influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormLordXIII Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I wonder if this is what arcanist players feel like with the Rail Golem. Kinda... naw, I'm just kidding. As someone suggested before, ignoring Izamu is a good call. As is often the case with big models on 50mm bases, improper placement on your opponent's part / lack of mobility is something that you can totally use to your advantage. This reminds me of a game I played against a Zoraida crew a while back with Bad Juju. My opponent had him appear at a totally insignificant part of the board for the sake of his "reclaim Malifaux" scheme, and though he got the two VP, I never had to engage Bad Juju at all (who probably would have ripped through my crew), and the number of soulstones placed into the mire golem were effectively wasted. Funnily enough, I had the Rail Golem on hand and I could have engaged him, but opted not to. It wasn't worth the effort. I would wager that the same thing would be the case with Izamu. I see Izamu as a similar case - he's a whopping 10ss, but he's not very fast, so if you can hinder him, give him fodder to tie him up, or just totally factor him out of the equation, he becomes like any other expensive model when not put to use -wasted. I haven't actually played him yet, but I think the concept is similar to other expensive ss models I've had to deal with. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 His speed is dependent on which crew he's in. In a Kirai crew where she makes him a spirit he is effectively wherever she wants him to be as she can swirl him in and out of combat. In a Yan Lo Crew he is again extremely quick because of the Soul Porter's ability to give Izamu potentially 2 free walk actions, which means on Turn 1 Izamu can strike targets up to 19" away from his initial starting position with 1 attack, up to 15" from his starting position with 2 Attacks, and up to 11" from his starting position with 3 attacks, if the Soul Porter does indeed successfully move him twice. In Seamus, Nicodem, and McMorning Crews however he is indeed somewhat cumbersome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Remember he's undeaad and toshiro can move him as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 He is an excellent addition to the resses, and one I don't begrudge! They need a good hard hitting minion. I still think the dreamer will do ok against him, and pandora strips his immunity- collodi boosted stitched will eat him. Its when he is used with kirai, for all of the reasons mentioned above, that he becomes a true beast. Particularly the amount of damage he can absorb and heal. And Zoraida, reliant on wp duels, becomes ineffectual against him. To explain in more detail why I started this thread, I was playing a 35ss game against a kirai crew containing izamu. I was trying a new build which didnt lend itself too well in hindsight, but izamu required my crews full attention, and Zoraida as bait...she died for the first time in like 50 games!!!! The game ended in a hard fought 4-4 draw, but made me realise that, except for the brutal effigy, I had nothing to deal with izamu and he could easily have caused me even more problems. Once a shikome and ikiryo were on the board I was constantly on the back foot with little I could do against this hard hitting ItI spirit O2 beast....! Sacrificing wicked dolls to take 2 wds may work, as would using an insidious madness to strip immunity before heading it off, but all of these are labour intensive. Ways of achieving this. Izamu in a kirai crew is, for me, almost as good, if not on a par with, most of the henchmen in the game, despite a lack of use soul stones. Maybe I should just take pandora v resses a, but I am determined to find a way with my beloved Z...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 If i suspect I will be facing a Kirai crew when playing Neverborn, Pandora is always the answer for me. Pandora tends to be a fairly straight forward silver bullet against Kirai, and I cannot see Izamu changing that. Specifically to the OP question, Pandora is already looking at killing models one wound at a time, so Izamu's spirit and armor are no different. His WP is already a 5, so hitting him with WP will cause problems for his targeting anything with pitiful (Tannen), Irresistible (Beckoners/Lilitu), Harmless (the kids/Doppelganger), or Pandora herself. Then its just a matter of keeping the other models in your crew away from him until he is removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormLordXIII Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 His speed is dependent on which crew he's in. In a Kirai crew where she makes him a spirit he is effectively wherever she wants him to be as she can swirl him in and out of combat. In a Yan Lo Crew he is again extremely quick because of the Soul Porter's ability to give Izamu potentially 2 free walk actions, which means on Turn 1 Izamu can strike targets up to 19" away from his initial starting position with 1 attack, up to 15" from his starting position with 2 Attacks, and up to 11" from his starting position with 3 attacks, if the Soul Porter does indeed successfully move him twice. In Seamus, Nicodem, and McMorning Crews however he is indeed somewhat cumbersome. Oh no! (And I guess oh yes too because I am picking him up tomorrow... <chuckles darkly>) My bad. I guess he is quicker than I thought. Thanks for the heads up! I didn't realize he would be so quick, even with Yan Lo. I will keep this in mind for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'm still learning Yan Lo, but in the last 3 games I've played with him Izamu has pretty much decimated the opposing crew. Now most of those games were boxed set with additions vs. boxed set with additions, but its really beginning to feel like my Faction is Izamu. I wonder if this is what arcanist players feel like with the Rail Golem. You've said this before and it's more to do with your play style I imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehter Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 He's not good against Pandora? Gasp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) He's not good against Pandora? Gasp! We all know Resse and Hoffman players love facing Pandora... Specifically to the OP question, Pandora is already looking at killing models one wound at a time, so Izamu's spirit and armor are no different. His WP is already a 5, so hitting him with WP will cause problems for his targeting anything with pitiful (Tannen), Irresistible (Beckoners/Lilitu), Harmless (the kids/Doppelganger), or Pandora herself. Then its just a matter of keeping the other models in your crew away from him until he is removed. I know Pandy can do it... what can't she do?! (keeping it clean please...!) Between them Pandora and Zoraida as 2 masters to have access to can deal with almost any opponent/strategy imo...then you also have access to Jakob, The Dreamer/LCB and lilith. Not to mention Collodi, Von Schill and Ophelia...Its more "what tool can I add to my box" for Zoraida to allow her to tackle Immune to influence crews? Hoffman you can just about deal with. Spirit Izamu- lets dub him "Spizamu"-with Kirai is very tricky for her to deal with. Pandora just laughs, and I am aware of this. He is the perfect target, like most high cost resses, for her abilities. Models like Izamu rely on their ability to minimize and heal damage. Pandora doesnt care about this...and she can make him run away. One thing I dont get is that people think w/o immune to influence he would be a great obey target...sure he hits hard but wouldnt he also end up healing himself? As to my OP, after a lot of thinking, here are my musings re Spizamu: i) Take Pandora if you want to win easy...lol (that aside and sticking with Z...!) ii) Brutal Effigy for upto 5 attacks, magical, CB 5. Oh, and his names brutal, so why not! iii) Take Avatar and spam Pins and needles. To be fair this could apply against all Resses, as a:Zoraida, when boosted by conduit, can munch through spirits, undead beasties ETC. (I don't care if you a spirit, immune to influence and have object2... my melee attack can hit you four times, potentially with a + to cast and damage anywhere on the table, knock you for three wounds each time, and allow me to draw upto 12/10 cards into my hand... object 2 and spirit that.....! iv) Take Collodi, as a number of posters have suggested, and smash him with marionettes... not guaranteed but viable. v) Wicked doll time! vi) Take Ophelia, esnure you cheat and soulstone high, use models like Sue, a:Zoraida and Primordial magic to make sure as best you can you have a red Joker in your hand and laugh as your opponent take maximum+another card flips damage, which is then doubled (negating spirit effectively) and then taking off 2 wounds-thats still a ton of wounds! And she can do this 3 times + and obeys you have in your crew...sweet. So in summary, Spizamu is to be respected, but he will go down if you bring the correct tools to the table. Play to Zoraida's greatest strength- the adaptability of her crew and her ability to manipulate it. Edited January 3, 2013 by McDoogle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Pandora stops a lot of resser nonsense, but we do have some tools against that crazy chick, but izamu self-loathing himself I have no desire to see, when pandora's the option, Izamu is not the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehter Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Correct. I highly doubt I'd take Izamu or Kirai if I'm seeing purple on the other side of the table. Off-topic, but true nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Pandora stops a lot of resser nonsense, but we do have some tools against that crazy chick, but izamu self-loathing himself I have no desire to see, when pandora's the option, Izamu is not the answer. But if he hits himself with his weapon, inflicting say moderate or severe damage, wouldn't he negate 2 points of it and then make a healing flip because of his weapons special rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 He wouldn't heal himself on Self loathing for the same reason he doesn't heal on Riposte. Its a damage flip, not a melee strike. He would still reduce his own damage though so he's looking at flips of 1/2/4 or 1/1/1 if he is a spirit or has a Grave Spirit attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 He wouldn't heal himself on Self loathing for the same reason he doesn't heal on Riposte. Its a damage flip, not a melee strike. He would still reduce his own damage though so he's looking at flips of 1/2/4 or 1/1/1 if he is a spirit or has a Grave Spirit attached. clcl, thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emissary Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Few other things to consider. Izamu can be very hard to get to run away with mental anguish because all he has to do to avoid it is cheat with a mask or crow of any value. I do think that a lot of things that you can or cannot do really vary based on the players and situation. That all has to be weighed. Somethings may work and some may not depending on how things go in the game. Another little trick I learned tonight is very similar to Swirling Spirits from Kirai. I've been using Yan Lo a lot since they both came out. One thing Yan can do to move Izamu around quickly other than his totem's Empower Ancestor is to use companion to activate Yan Lo, Soul Porter, Izamu and Chiaki. Izamu goes and does his thing, then the totem goes and kills Izamu and he drops 3 corpse counters. The porter is still free to move Chiaki if necessary into position for her Cleanse later if needed. Yan Lo goes, moves into a better position if needed and resurrects Izamu (even using the 3 corpse counters Izamu dropped if possible and within 6"/picked up by Yan Lo) and heals him if needed. Then Chiaki can activate and remove the slow from being summoned and can get near him for the free heal. After your opponent goes, Izamu is free to activate again with full ap. Depending on how everything is positioned, this can teleport Izamu quite far across the table as Yan Lo only has to be within 8" when he is killed, can move up to 8-10" before resummoning him 6" away. Certainly something to keep in mind. Plus it gets another activation out of Izamu that turn. Edited January 3, 2013 by emissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xKoBiEx Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Another little trick I learned tonight is very similar to Swirling Spirits from Kirai. I've been using Yan Lo a lot since they both came out. One thing Yan can do to move Izamu around quickly other than his totem's Empower Ancestor is to use companion to activate Yan Lo, Soul Porter, Izamu and Chiaki. Izamu goes and does his thing, then the totem goes and kills Izamu and he drops 3 corpse counters. The porter is still free to move Chiaki if necessary into position for her Cleanse later if needed. Yan Lo goes, moves into a better position if needed and resurrects Izamu (even using the 3 corpse counters Izamu dropped if possible and within 6"/picked up by Yan Lo) and heals him if needed. Then Chiaki can activate and remove the slow from being summoned and can get near him for the free heal. After your opponent goes, Izamu is free to activate again with full ap. Depending on how everything is positioned, this can teleport Izamu quite far across the table as Yan Lo only has to be within 8" when he is killed, can move up to 8-10" before resummoning him 6" away. Certainly something to keep in mind. Plus it gets another activation out of Izamu that turn. Forgive me if I'm missing something as my book is not with me. However, Izamu is not living or undead. He does not leave corpse counters. This will not work unless there is an exception, somewhere, that I am missing. EDIT: Corrected - Izamu is Undead even though he is an Object so 3 Corpse Counters due to 50 mm size base. Edited January 3, 2013 by xKoBiEx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Izamu is undead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Izamu does carry the Undead Characteristic (at least in the book anyway). Up Nix beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 several people have been saying that a spirit Izamu will get swirled into the face of the neverborn player - thus making it difficult to ignore him. really? which neverborn masters do you see this as being effective against? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xKoBiEx Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 several people have been saying that a spirit Izamu will get swirled into the face of the neverborn player - thus making it difficult to ignore him. really? which neverborn masters do you see this as being effective against? I don't see Neverborn as being trumped by spirit Izamu so I am curious about that, as well. There are so many spammable attacks available to Neverborn along with a plethora of magical attacks which would bypass spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 yeah izamu is undead, but when made into spirit i don't think he drops corpse counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 He wouldn't drop corpse counters when a spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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