Gencon & Guild

[mpangelu]

Are we not having any releases (also I do believe no Rezzers) from Gencon?....

[decker_cky]

No. There were production delays and Wyrd couldn't get everything they had planned in time. There's a thread in announcements that shows everything that'll be available.

[FoolWithTheFez]

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?34360-Gencon-Releases-The-Definitive-List

[mpangelu]

I'm aware of the list, I was just a bit shocked to not see guild or rezzers. Hence my question. Kind of throws my entire purchase into whhhhat happened to my rifleman?

[Alex]

There will be Terraclips Dungeon Rise, some mercenaries, Nightmare Hanging Tree with a pair of Nightmare Hanged, plus book 4 and some neat accessories. Sucks that a couple of factions got left out entirely though. Hopefully they'll be able to make them available soon afterwards.

[Wake of Godzilla]

Kind of weird when you think that the GenCon mini is a guild mini...

[Adran]

As stated, it wasn't what Wyrd originally intended, but for various reasons, none of the guild models were ready for pre-release at this time. Ditto Ressurectionists.

[Forar]

There will be Terraclips Dungeon Rise, some mercenaries, Nightmare Hanging Tree with a pair of Nightmare Hanged, plus book 4 and some neat accessories. Sucks that a couple of factions got left out entirely though. Hopefully they'll be able to make them available soon afterwards.

As has been oft noted, all of these but the figures also bump up S&H costs significantly.

Pure figures is $17. Adding a book bumps that up to $28/33. Adding Terraclips shoots it up around $46/48 or so.

Well, we don't know for certain about the tree, but it's a fairly safe bet.

Personally I have no interest in the tree (it's awesome, but I'm not able to justify paying that much for 1 large and 2 small terrain pieces), can wait on the book, and am not willing to expand my factions (I've already chosen to cut Arcanists out of playtime entirely due to feeling I was diluting my experience as it was), so I find myself out of luck on this one. Which is a shame, I was excited about the MT figure and my first Gencon ordering experience, and I am completely aware that Wyrd isn't doing this intentionally. It was a situation beyond their control, I get that. Doesn't make me any less disappointed.

Hell, I'm probably good for at least Book 4, the Riflemen, and maybe another box of the actual clips for Terraclips (you can never have too many of those), and that's before we've even seen the actual Guild releases beyond one minion. Just have to wait for Sept/Oct/Nov/whenever.

[Guy in Suit]

The fewer of those lady death marshalls that get handed out - the more they will cost on ebay...

[Forar]

The fewer of those lady death marshalls that get handed out - the more they will cost on ebay...

All else being equal, if you buy a book and they become available for $40-50 or less, it ends up essentially being a wash (comparing buying from ebay/local stores versus the Wyrd store) if you're willing to wait (I know many people are willing to pay that premium to avoid a wait).

And if I'm not mistaken, hasn't Malifaux been growing over the past year? It really comes down to supply and demand. The demand is likely higher, but considering the number of people in other threads talking about splitting their order into 2-3+ pieces, it's possible the supply will be as well. Becomes a question of which is higher, which we won't really know until people start getting and listing them here on the forums and other sites.

[LoboStele]

For what it's worth, they have never had something for any faction at any GenCon to date. (except maybe year 1 when the game launched? I don't know, I wasn't around then.)

In 2010, they released Kirai, Colette, and Ophelia at GenCon. Guild players had to wait till February or so for Hoffman. In 2012, the Outcasts didn't get anything new, as it was rumored that Viktoria's Avatar was supposed to make an appearance but got delayed. The Arcanists only had Marcus' Avatar, which could be argued as them being as good as ignored too, LOL.

I think with the switch to plastic and everything else this year, it doesn't surprise me that a few things got delayed. If the Warstore's dates are good though, doesn't seem like the Guild or Resser players will have to wait too long to get some goodies though.

[Twisted Metal]

I agree with Lobo. There hasn't been a Gencon where all of the factions were represented and last year guild benefitted the most out of any faction. They got three different versions on lady J and the Sonnia Avatar. Levi players had to wait almost an entire year for their desired models to be released. Also keep in mind that the book entries that were posted were ment to be teasers for the BOOK release and no where did it say they were going to be at Gencon. I hate to say it but the amount of complaints that I have seen about the riflemen not being avalible make me wish that they had never posted it. Now I would have preferred an excerp from the story line or an unavailing of a new mission ect. At least those can't be mistaken as Gencon prereleases.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Twisted Metal

[Hardlec]

no guild. +++ungood. Displeasure expressed.

Get to work after GenCon

[Jonas Albrecht]

I agree with Lobo. There hasn't been a Gencon where all of the factions were represented and last year guild benefitted the most out of any faction. They got three different versions on lady J and the Sonnia Avatar. Levi players had to wait almost an entire year for their desired models to be released. Also keep in mind that the book entries that were posted were ment to be teasers for the BOOK release and no where did it say they were going to be at Gencon. I hate to say it but the amount of complaints that I have seen about the riflemen not being avalible make me wish that they had never posted it. Now I would have preferred an excerp from the story line or an unavailing of a new mission ect. At least those can't be mistaken as Gencon prereleases.

And for book 2, we had the last master released. In book 3, two of our Minions and one of our Avatars came at the end of the "Malifaux year". I don't think we're in the black when it comes to release favorability.

[LoboStele]

Oh, I agree Jonas. Personally I think it's time for the Guild to get their pieces first. Maybe next year though. We'll see.

[Dracomax]

o keep in mind that the book entries that were posted were ment to be teasers for the BOOK release and no where did it say they were going to be at Gencon. I hate to say it but the amount of complaints that I have seen about the riflemen not being avalible make me wish that they had never posted it. Now I would have preferred an excerp from the story line or an unavailing of a new mission ect. At least those can't be mistaken as Gencon prereleases.

Honestly, I hope what Wyrd take from this is that they managed to create a 4SS minion that's got every guild player so impressed with the teaser that not being able to play with it RIGHT NOW is making people upset.

If I were Nathan and Co., that would make me pretty darn proud.

I get why things aren't at GenCon. With the change to Plastic, the Rush, and apparently some bad quality even on stuff they thought yesterday would be there, It sounds like Murphy has been stalking them(Maybe they'll take the hint and make old Murphy an outcast master in book 5, all about negative flips and denying cheating.../digression).

I think some of the worst complainers probably need to step back, realise that the reason they are upset is because Wyrd has been sooo good, and is producing models they want, and just chill out and enjoy the ride. They'll get here soon, and if you have the fortune (both good and monetary) to be at Gencon, not only will they have most of what's currently on sale there, but there is plenty of other stuff to enjoy. If. like me, you can't make it, then go out and find a game. have fun. let the tempus fugit, and you'll get your riflemen when the time comes.

[Forar]

To be fair, as I've pointed out in a blog comment and elsewhere, for whatever people 'losing their... fate' there may be, there seem to be a vaguely equal number of folks who will simply have no criticism of the company or situation whatsoever. Both are pretty obnoxious. Wyrd's a company, they can do wrong, and they do a ton right. One has to be pretty blindly on the fringe of either side to not see that they've done a lot of amazing things (especially with the situation and circumstances they have, particularly those beyond their control), but that there is always room for improvement.

Being surrounded by yes-men/yes-women/yes-henchpeople isn't how they'll improve. Constructive criticism should always be given politely/respectively, but those who are passionate about the company and the product shouldn't be shouted down just because they expressed frustration, disappointment or displeasure.

[Jonas Albrecht]

To be fair, as I've pointed out in a blog comment and elsewhere, for whatever people 'losing their... fate' there may be, there seem to be a vaguely equal number of folks who will simply have no criticism of the company or situation whatsoever. Both are pretty obnoxious. Wyrd's a company, they can do wrong, and they do a ton right. One has to be pretty blindly on the fringe of either side to not see that they've done a lot of amazing things (especially with the situation and circumstances they have, particularly those beyond their control), but that there is always room for improvement.

Being surrounded by yes-men/yes-women/yes-henchpeople isn't how they'll improve. Constructive criticism should always be given politely/respectively, but those who are passionate about the company and the product shouldn't be shouted down just because they expressed frustration, disappointment or displeasure.

Not to mention the board's been positively sedate with the latest disappointing announcement.

[Dracomax]

I agree with you Forar, for the most part.

And if I came across as a cheerleader, then I apologise. That wasn't my intent. There is plenty I don't like about Malifaux(Faction to faction balance needs to be taken out back and fed to the gremlins).

However, I don't think the complaints I've been hearing about models and Gencon are particularly well timed or fair.

First, On the eve of Gencon, your complaints won't be seen or make any difference by the vast majority of Wyrd, and can only make Gencon less enjoyable for the people there, if they have any effect at all. seems petty and mean spirited to me, but if that's your boat, I still suggest sitting down and playing a game.

Second, it seems obvious that Wyrd intended to have these models available. They even said they were going to have most of the book's models available.Things happened, and for one reason and another, they aren't able to show up with all the models they wanted to(and it sounds like one of the bigger things that happened was related to QC--I for one approve of any company saying "our product isn't up to our standards, so rather than sell you defective merchandise, or stuff that we will need to fix later, we need just a bit more time")

In response, they let us know they wouldn't have all the stuff they wanted to there--and it sounded like they let us know within a few days, if not hours of finding out themselves. Then, when things got worse, they let us know that too. I have quit games due to poor communication before. I'm glad I don't feel I need to this time.

But mostly, I feel like people who are upset by a lack of guild here are probably upset because of how cool the stuff they've seen is. To those people, I really want to say, wait, and we'll get our turn. and, to ensure we get our turn, lets make sure we complain when the people who make decisions and the grand high muckety mucks aren't up to their toenails in work for Gencon. because a soft word at the right time will do a heck of a lot more than yelling and screaming when nobody has the time to deal with it.

[011121]

It's always better to underpromise and overperform rather than vice versa. If they had not said anything about having 70% models ready for gencon and just showed up with them people would have been blown away. They might have missed some sales opportunities because people wouldn't have budgeted but the return in terms of customer appreciation would have most likely paid for it (it's not like they couldn't unload whatever stock they had left over from Gencon).

Frankly teasing a bunch of models that weren't going to be available to buy and not teasing most of the ones that are available seems boneheaded.

Here's how I would have handled it- internally set a goal of 70% available at gencon. In the week ahead of time start dribbling out teasers for those models that you know are ready to go to the show along with something like the post they came out with today about the new masters. Then the day before gencon drop a quick post that you managed to get "some figures" ready early and will be on sale at the same time as the book. Don't make it sound like a big deal, keep expectations low, but point out that that's a lot better than previous books which came out well before any minis from those books. Then when the people report back from gencon about how you had x% available immediately it wildly exceeds expectations.

Because if you say ahead of time you are going to have 70% of the minis at gencon then, whether it's fair or not, that becomes the expectation you have to hit just to break even. It always amazes me that so many game companies are so bad at managing expectations. I think they mistake expectation for enthusiasm.

Not to say this has been a bad roll out, by most measures it's shaping up to be very successful, the tragedy is that by not better managing expectations Wyrd won't get much credit for it.

[Dracomax]

Honestly, My guess, is that the problem with the overpromising is that people [at wyrd]were excited. then things fell apart, the center could not hold, yadda yadda.

I really hope they learn the lesson next year.

Still, anyone can have unexpected setbacks, and it's not quite fair to blame a company for not having everything they thought they would when they clearly had very rocky roads. ALso, I'd much prefer they do things this way than not tell us anything. Poor communication will kill my interest and loyalty about a thousand times faster than honest errors.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Dracomax
to clarify "people"

[Requirement]

I think, having kept my opinion to myself through all this, I'm just mad I can't spend all my money on new guild toys.

And really, that seems to be the crux of it. "I budgeted to spend money! Now I'm not spending money on the Guild!" Like I said, I understand this point of view, I'm right there as well. I think I feel it extra, as do other Guild players, as the "Miss" is Guild this year, something I was stoked about.

I feel the disappointment as much as anyone else, but I have to agree, Wyrd is trying to offer us some awesome products. Product that I personally can't wait to buy... in November (If the war store is accurate.) Ups and downs, man, strikes and gutters.

Let's switch the subject, who has two thumbs, an affordable flat, and wants all the awesome new models? This guy. This guy right here.

[Forar]

And if I came across as a cheerleader, then I apologise. That wasn't my intent. There is plenty I don't like about Malifaux(Faction to faction balance needs to be taken out back and fed to the gremlins).

No, I wasn't addressing anyone in particular. I think it's important to be able to criticize things we like, above and beyond the usual "cuddle paper, scissors are fine. - Love, Rock", but with a measure of impartiality and critical thinking. At the same time, yes, one must be aware of the challenges they face, as a smaller company, as one fighting for market share against rather overwhelming forces, as one occasionally ending up victims of their own success, whatever it is.

However, I don't think the complaints I've been hearing about models and Gencon are particularly well timed or fair.

First, On the eve of Gencon, your complaints won't be seen or make any difference by the vast majority of Wyrd, and can only make Gencon less enjoyable for the people there, if they have any effect at all. seems petty and mean spirited to me, but if that's your boat, I still suggest sitting down and playing a game.

I concur that such complaints will necessarily be heard by many at the top for a while to come, but at the same time, it shouldn't be surprising that they're coming now. Now is when we're getting the news, when we're finding out that entire factions will be missing, that of those supposed to be there yet more won't make it due to manufacturing issues, etc. People tend to react in an impulsive fashion, so honestly I'd have been shocked if the forums had sat on their opinions for two weeks while the pre and post event crush died down.

Second, it seems obvious that Wyrd intended to have these models available. They even said they were going to have most of the book's models available.Things happened, and for one reason and another, they aren't able to show up with all the models they wanted to(and it sounds like one of the bigger things that happened was related to QC--I for one approve of any company saying "our product isn't up to our standards, so rather than sell you defective merchandise, or stuff that we will need to fix later, we need just a bit more time")

Totally agreed. I'm sure they're plenty disappointed on multiple levels; as creators of awesome things who know that fans are disappointed, knowing that the can't showcase a bunch of figures they'd hoped to really build buzz, and even strictly as a business that is seeing awesome sales (I think the sale thread has well over 300 accounted for as of this posting, and we've just begun) but knowing that the lack of 2 entire factions (3 if you ignore the single Outcast that's available) is likely hurting those sales.

In response, they let us know they wouldn't have all the stuff they wanted to there--and it sounded like they let us know within a few days, if not hours of finding out themselves. Then, when things got worse, they let us know that too. I have quit games due to poor communication before. I'm glad I don't feel I need to this time.

I partially agree. They copped to the missing Oiran quickly it seemed, but we didn't find out that Guild and Ressers would be missing entirely until dozens of pages into a thread. Granted, there was also a blog post about it, but they announced the first 3 factions available at Gencon weeks ago (literally, starting in late July), and then were essentially silent on the matter for ~a week and a half until said word was out. Further back, there were questions being asked about The Warden (ye gods, one day I'll let this go) that went unanswered until the blisters were actually reaching people's hands. It may seem like a small thing to be annoyed about, and it's praising them with faint damnation that this is the case (#firstworldproblems), but on the flip side, it was a small thing, and I remain puzzled why those repeated inquiries took so long for someone to address with a simple answer.

But mostly, I feel like people who are upset by a lack of guild here are probably upset because of how cool the stuff they've seen is. To those people, I really want to say, wait, and we'll get our turn. and, to ensure we get our turn, lets make sure we complain when the people who make decisions and the grand high muckety mucks aren't up to their toenails in work for Gencon. because a soft word at the right time will do a heck of a lot more than yelling and screaming when nobody has the time to deal with it.

I don't entirely agree. Hell, with them away and occupied now may well be the perfect time to 'get it out of our systems' as it were. To let people vent, discuss and eventually see reason. Rather than as an individual or a community just bottling it up (and that kind of thing can most certainly fester), getting it out there, sharing in the disappointment and frustration, and hopefully arrive at some measure of peace with the topics at hand may well be more productive.

Edit: though I should again note that this should be done politely and constructively, especially on the very forums Wyrd so generously provides free of charge. Publically losing ones ... fate over a perceived slight or balance concern doesn't do anyone any good at all.

And honestly, I don't think this'll remain a huge issue for long. Right now it's just all that we have going on. Once we get pictures and reports from people putting the new figures to use, people with Book 4 in hand leaking all the juicy details of what is to come, and generally have more information to go on, I think we'll see things return back to some semblance of normal.

Basically, I look at it like an expansion to an MMO; pre-release (/sealed beta) is always a time of strife as minimal communication (and it's never enough, even when it's good (THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!)) and people's wishes, hopes, dreams, concerns and anxiety gather up to form a Voltron of Shenanigans. Then an open beta or release hits and information floods out, then the speculation can begin (this is broken! No it's not, that's broken! YOU'RE BROKEN! (THAT'S WHAT... never mind)), and it becomes just another series of waiting games.

At least the word on the street is currently that Book 4 should be in stores at the end of Sept, and the Riflemen the end of Nov, so there is something to look forward to. Until we have more info on what the book actually contains, we don't really know how painful the further wait might be.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Forar

[Gruesome]

Guild and rezzers take the hit this gencon...

As someone that just had Seamus get hit with red joker on negative flip for the FOURTH GAME IN A ROW, all I can say is, sometimes $$$$$$$$ happens and sometimes it happens to YOU.

For my part, I am getting the book and possibly the nightmare tree, which gets me over $100 and my son gets his special edition guild model.

Not what I was planning, but oh well. I am old enough to not let expectations get confused with reality and have long since disavowed myself of the notion that the world is "fair".

Anyone that thinks that Wyrd has not heard the mood or intent of threads like this is crazy, IMO.

I expect they will try harder and perhaps differently in the future and if they don't? Vote with your dollars if this is such a big thing for you.

[Forar]

Not what I was planning, but oh well. I am old enough to not let expectations get confused with reality and have long since disavowed myself of the notion that the world is "fair".

Actually, this is a perfect example of what I was talking about. It's an over-reaction to otherwise polite expressions of disappointment.

Vote with your dollars if this is such a big thing for you.

I have. I was good for at least one full MT level purchase, but due to the issues they've had I'll be waiting until the book and Riflemen are released over the next 3 months, from my usual suppliers, rather than blindly paying a 20-35% markup just to get a promo figure that may or may not be available for roughly half that extra cost on its own, depending on how the market goes.

Why does it seem to infuriate you so to see respectful critique? Small as Wyrd is, they're certainly big enough that nothing I say is going to cause any of them to lose sleep or impact their bottom line.

Edit: I mean, if what you take from this thread is "damned kids whining, don't know how good they've got it" I don't know what to tell you man, but I strongly disagree. Sure, there was at least one very public explosion of outrage in the Announcement forum, but from what I've seen that's been the tiny exception, not the rule.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Forar