Mentat_Canis Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 So I continue to read the forums and all I see is people who think that Colette is the only Arcanist Master that can win. As someone who also plays Raspy and Marcus and most people are more afraid of my Raspy then my Colette, I don't know where this is coming from. Also Marcus is much better then anyone ever wants to give him credit for. So why is it that our other masters get no respect I don't play Ramos so I can't say anything about him. I just don't get it and wanted some enlightenment to the hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I agree that the other Masters dont get as much affection. There was a previous post a few months ago that voted for best master, and both Ramos and Raspy scored highly. I feel Colette gets the glory for 2 reasons, 1 is she is a second book master, and like most masters in book two, has much better options for mobility shenanigans, which is key to most schemes and strategies. 2, thanks to her mobility she is very much harder to pin down and deal with by other Masters. Raspy and Ramos are quite slow, although are in their own right very good. Marcus is simply least understood. Having played against Marcus with my Colette, I have a greater respect for him, but he does seem to rely on non Arcanist beasts to make him competitive.... Just my thoughts. P.s. I for one push the Collette banner simply for a bit of banter and friendly competitiveness, not necessarily because I dislike the other Arcanist Masters, others may be in the same boat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borthcollective Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Is it Marcus, or Marcus's crew you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Raspy is the second best arcanist master. Marcus and ramos are both terrible. you can win with them, but its an uphill fight, and your opponent needs to make mistakes. Just my opinion. In tournaments I take colette for mostly everything except neverborn, in which case rasputina is the better counter to everything they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halflingspy Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 As someone who wants to expand into other Arcanist Masters (Colette was my first), how do you deal with Ramos and Rasputina's underlying issues? Both Masters seem to have the same issue of low defense and movement. Rasputina I can understand more, thanks to her ice-mirror tricks and her new book 2 models that give her side some mobility. Also, her ability to deal damage with essence of power seems rather impressive. How about Ramos? I haven't quite 'gotten' him yet. I agree with most people by saying that Marcus hasn't quite been figured out yet as a whole besides the Team Marcus group here on the forums - my poor friend got him first as her first miniature-game crew ever, and so her learning curve is dramatic. While I do see (I think?) potential and fun tricks, is it still enough to measure up to say the sheer melee force of a Lady J guild crew or Pandora mind screw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat_Canis Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Marcus is actually really good himself and people just don't understand. He is fast he hits hard enough and he can heal. You just have to play him and his crew like a pack of wolves is what I try to explain to new players you move around don't show yourselves and hit weaknesses and he is his crew because you can't have Silired and Shikome and Tiger without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Rasputina is awesome. She never fails to wipe enemy models off the board in spectacular fashion. The problem is, she is slow, she can be played around be smart players, and she needs so many points invested in support to make her abilities work (due to her slowness) that it can be hard to have enough of your models available to complete objectives. She's tough to play and honestly I'm waiting for someone to school me when playing her. It hasn't happened yet (and my only loss with her was because I had no models with me and had to run an Acolyte and an Ice Golem....) but her weaknesses are laid bare for all to see, my opponents just haven't played against her much I think. Definitely she's very good at certain strats/schemes (ones without much movement) and definitely people often dont give her destructive power enough credit and that wins games, but I don't think she should be scary to anyone who knows her weaknesses. Marcus also, still, seems to get very little credit. Look at his card! He's a beatstick with tricks. Without going into too much detail about Marcus, he's basically the opposite of Rasputina (fast!) and hence between the two, you can cover most strats/schemes that will come up without ever needing to touch Collette. Collette is still better than both, but the other two are hardly terrible. And Ramos will be great once he gets his avatar and is no longer a liability past turn 2. Edited August 25, 2011 by Calmdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I went to a tourney in cardiff a little while ago with my Marcus. Played vs tina once and collette 3 times (including Drake above) and won 3 and drew 1. even then against non arcanist masters he's nought but awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Colette is at the pinnacle of competitive Arcanist masters (which, honestly, isn't saying much--the rest are fairly unimpressive). Her crew is fast, tricky, can completely multiple schemes T1-2, and while they don't do a massive amount of damage, they can papercut most things to death. Plus, her crew is visually striking and appropriately themed. What she doesn't have is flexibility. At any given points level, it's not hard to figure out what she's going to take. Rasputina is... Well, she's the second best, but not exactly all that great. She's too slow, and her fast pieces (Snow Storm and Blessed) cost 19 stones together. Plus, she really wants to take as many Ice-themed things as possible, which makes her even slower. Good damage output, though, which helps her a lot. Ramos will become better with his Avatar, as mentioned. At the moment, he's a slow summoner which is a horrible archetype for tournament play. Marcus is... Marcus. There are people who will defend him as "misunderstood." I understand that there are also people who believe that the Cubs will turn everything around this season, just you wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerGaeth Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Personally, I think ruminating on the competitiveness of a crew is currently a little pointless, until we've had a good length of time where everyone can play with the new book. I have the feeling that, as with the release of any expansion or the like, the balance between crews is going to shift somewhat. All that said, I personally prefer Colette not because of competitiveness, but because she fits my play style rather well. This is also the reason I prefer Eldar in 40k. Movement and trickery, movement and trickery everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Ramos isn't bad. But the main problem I've seen is the models that make him good aren't currently out yet so right now in a vacuum he is rather lacking if you go by whats in his crew box and what has been released up to this date. Of course the biggest problem I see is that Ramos and Raspy both really have a problem passing the "jack daw" test so I can assume that is why they don't often see alot of tournament play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halflingspy Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 All that said, I personally prefer Colette not because of competitiveness, but because she fits my play style rather well. This is also the reason I prefer Eldar in 40k. Movement and trickery, movement and trickery everywhere! I picked up Colette first for exactly this reason - Loved Eldar fluff and playstyle, but the idea of collecting up to 3000 points was out of my price range. Colette was my entry point to this awesome game! Her mixture of tricks and movement is a lot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 You know her 0 action auto recast spell makes jack daw discard or die right? I've never had jack daw live past turn 3 againt rasputina. Her speed issue is mostly irrelevant in high points games with snowstorm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Then he didn't have the you can't cheat aura/ss up within range of raspy or was really inept at conserving ss/cards in hand to keep him alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Her threat range with that spell is 12 inches. She has this ability called ice mirror. Its $$$$$$$$ing sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jty3 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Are there any standout options in the new book that any of you think would give Raspy, Ramos or Marcus a boost? The Blessed of December looks interesting for Raspy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Are there any standout options in the new book that any of you think would give Raspy, Ramos or Marcus a boost? The Blessed of December looks interesting for Raspy. The Blessed is interesting, but I don't really see it making a huge difference. It is FAST, though, so there's that, but it's also so fast that it will tend to get itself into unsupported positions unless you're careful. Plus, I consider Snow Storm to be virtually a necessity for Rasputina as is and those two together are darned expensive. With Marcus, well, there's McTavish, who's likely to get bit by a bird and turn into a Beast. I've yet to see anything that would elevate him beyond his status as, well, Marcus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borthcollective Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 The Bear is really good for Marcus too, actually better for Myranda, so she can get engaged, and then hulk out all bear like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borthcollective Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 With Marcus, well, there's McTavish, who's likely to get bit by a bird and turn into a Beast. I've yet to see anything that would elevate him beyond his status as, well, Marcus. I would like to get the ball rolling to have the beast characteristic added to McTavish before he releases. Who's with me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzo Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 every system needs a "ogre kingdom" army arcanists are it at the moment. however i am quite sure that the designers will eventually let them catch up with the rest in due time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdomin2 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 You guys are crazy Marcus is fine Ramos is good and will be much better when he gets his models. Arcanists are even with Rezzers and guild. No comment on Raspy not enough experience. They just aren't neverborn or outcasts, which is only 40% of the factions, not the majority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 every system needs a "ogre kingdom" army arcanists are it at the moment. however i am quite sure that the designers will eventually let them catch up with the rest in due time. Colette is one of the top, if not the top master in the game. dont know what your talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProdigalPunk Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I went to a tourney in cardiff a little while ago with my Marcus. Played vs tina once and collette 3 times (including Drake above) and won 3 and drew 1. even then against non arcanist masters he's nought but awesome. I want to call BS on this so bad, but your reputation proceeds you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I want to call BS on this so bad, but your reputation proceeds you. Just remember, the plural of anecdote isn't evidence. Just because some people have success with Marcus, doesn't make him not... well, Marcus. Colette would be a Tier 1 Master. Rasputina would likely be Tier 2, and Ramos Tier 3. Marcus is Tier Marcus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Marcus is Tier Marcus. I laughed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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