Mentat_Canis

Yes they are that was a typo I meant to say 4 Wds.

I will throw my hat in the ring and agree with most. 1. Mech Rider( The model is great even after the late cuddles but all the riders are great (Dead is just good) hard to kill late game with a 0 action push and relevant attacks and triggers.) 2. Arcane Effigy( Like the Riders if you own a large chunk of the faction you should probably own the Effigy but the Arcane might be the best with Condition removal and a damage increase for the master, there is a reason you can't summon one with the Rider.) 3. Decembers Acolyte( In my opinion the best shooting option for the faction and is a good point cost. From the Shadows can be a trap for some players but I have never deployed one over the center line yes it means turn 1 I might not get a shot but if that is the case it is because it has scared my opponent. Also slow and lose a card would be good enough to shoot without doing damage.) 4. Blessed of December/Sabertooth (This one for me comes down to what model or leap you like better, I personally like the Blessed because ML 7 with good triggers and I would rather leap on an 8 instead of a 5mask. but they are quick hard hitting models that can also objective run.) 5. Fire Gamin (By far the hardest model to put on this list because the ones above were easy for me to pick but I love these wk 4 df 4 wp 4 guys because they have a Sh5 attack that does good damage and burns and if you have to kill these guys in melee they make you pay for it. and they get objectives done turn 4 and 5 because who wants to shoot at the 2 Gamin when you have Joss running at you.)

I have used her a few times and like most have said she is just one choice in the expensive heavy hitters that Neverborn can field. My main opponent refers to her as she activates and something which has been true recently because ML 7 with 4/5/6 is very strong. I have not taken any upgrades on her recently because I have felt it not needed. Personally when I am looking at 10+ss Beaters in Neverborn I look at Nekima, Teddy, Mature, Rider. I take them all in different games depending on what I need. I think that out of these 4 Nekima is best in the early game because of the inbuilt 3 AP and wk6 with flight, it allows for turn 2 engagements with killing power and she can easliy run on the flank by herself. If I am looking for a model that will be around all game I don't take Nakima as I fully expect her to die turn 3ish after disrupting the enimy and most likely getting at least one kill. If I think I will need a heavy hitter all game I will take the Rider and hide him turn 1 then bring him into action end of 2, or I will take teddy with the healing and Terrifying all. He is also slower to get into the fight so is more of a cleanup model after a vanguard disrupts early actions. Last game with Nekima was Reckoning where I took Nekima, Rider, Mature, BBS, and Collodi vs the Viks where Nekima was a flanker that handled Tealor and a convict gunslinger allowing for the rest of my force to deal with the Viks in the middle of the table. So like everyone else has really said she can be good but only really when it is called for and I have not put an upgrade on her since mid way through the beta but that is a personal choice.

Fetid I agree that I don't think we will see them but I thought I would because it would have been easy to do. While 1ap isn't as valuable to every model you set the price high enough where those that it would be valuable would think of taking it but wouldn't take it all the time, hence the 3ss cost I put on it. To your upgrade there are plenty of masters out there that cannot expand their hiring pools as well Seamus is not alone.

I have thought for a long time that they would add some slightly overpriced generic upgrades. The ones I thought for this would be 3ss "Gain a Specific AP" or 4-5ss "Gain Fast" Others in the vain could be armor, or hard to kill once again being overpriced as some models already have upgrades like this like The Captian which is 2ss gain casting expert I believe. I would also love to see an upgrade that is faction neutral with the restriction of "Horseman" I think it would be name "Apocalypse Always Comes" 3ss - This model has hard to kill. Discard this upgrade to heal 2 wounds and gain fast.

So I am about half way through the book and while I have really liked the stories so far I do have one major issue. You have not moved overarching story forward in now the last 3 books. I am only through half the book so that could change but I would doubt it and my big question is now 3 books into this trend are we going to move forward with the story or are we just going to get more side stories.

I agree the book keeping would be terrible didn't think about that, I think it would be hard to change the TN on the (0) because all the riders are a 6 and adding a suit would also be hard for the same reason of symmetry. I also agree that for 1/4 of your crew it should be amazing but Me and Dracomax have always been on close to the same page.

I can say to the early question the Raspy player played it every game because of me. We play a lot and he started to notice how good the Mech Rider is. The model does have several weaknesses if you are playing against it, the first of which is to those factions with a sniper bring a sniper because early damage is easy and the model doesn't have early armor. Target it with blasts as it doesn't get armor vs blasts pulses and auras. The 6 I agree is a low number to need but it will also drain some cards from your hand to make sure it goes off so if you use a 8-9 to get a push and a 2wd slow model its still good but what else can that card do. Later in the open beta this model was cuddled several times toward the end lowering the amount of scheme markers and cards as well as more target restrictions. That being said the model is amazing like all of the riders and it might be the best of the riders not sure on that because the taxi that is the hooded rider is also really amazing. The biggest issue with you wanting a cuddle though is so many aspects on the card you can't change because they wanted symmetry between all the riders so the aspects that can be changed is for the 0 action lowering the push and changing the summon(which will never go to needing a scrap or scheme because they want it to used with all the masters), or they can change the triggers on the attacks to something else and these had been tweaked down to where they are now. I think that a cuddle now should not happen because of lack of data (one tournament is not enough data, stealing this from Fetid) but if they think that they have the time before the cards go off for printing to re-balance a model in house so we get actual cards then more power to. Also to the original opp that says it didn't see much play for tweaking the play test that is just fundamentally untrue as normally there were 2-5 battle reports with it a week and a thread on it every week about the changes that had happened the week before since it changed quite often. (I do agree that I bring this model in about 75% of games with the Arc and 95% of games with levi) The one big cuddle that would be easy to make is give the summoned models the Peon Characteristic if anything changes.

The grave spirit if I remember correctly was brought in to add death to the world and kill the tyrants. From book 1 or 2 I think book 1. I also agree that we have all the tyrants because the dragons is 2 different tyrants one who hangs or is Shenlong if you look at his card.

I agree which is why since 2010 I have been playing Malifaux and Warmachine instead of 40k. I am just trying to put out my point of view that I think that needing the Errata this quickly is a bad sign. If you need to clarify some things that are already stated in the rulebook sure but errata is a bad sign.

I would have preferred people complain about not getting released because they continued to make it a more balanced game. I thought it was rushed to get it to Gencon and so did many other people and this FAQ does prove they rushed it and made mistakes. I hope they learn from them and this 2nd wave has a longer more complete playtest. I am also not saying that this FAQ wasn't needed I am saying that I am disappointed that this was needed so quickly and it smells just like what everyone complained at the end of 1e where people needed to have the FAQ their to play because what was printed was wrong.

Couldn't think of a witty title but isn't anyone else disappointed at wyrd for having to release an FAQ with errata in it a week after the book came out. This is so fast it is basically saying that they rushed this way to fast and didn't give it enough time for development. I do have to say that if I was an Ophelia player I would be wanting my money back or filing a complaint with the better business borough in Georgia for fraud of a product. 2 upgrades that you can no longer use your nice printed card stock for and instead just having a printed copy on paper. I am dissapointed in the need for this so quickly and hopefully they learn from their mistakes and actually give wave 2 a long enough test period, it is just feeling like 1e again where you need to have a lot of FAQ all the time to know how to play.

Ok if a model has focused +3 and takes an attack do they have to remove and use all 3 or can they choose to just lower it by 1 or 2 instead. Rulebook states :" Focused +1: This model may remove this Condition when declaring an Action to gain a nomber of (positive twists) to the Action's duel and damage flip equal to the value of the Focused Condition Removed."

Wow I forgot the Duet, I can't believe I did that but if it is the same combination as it was in M2E it will probably be the most expensive I guess I just don't think of it because its not a hire-able model. I think that we have good Ideas though and I really want the Nekima to rule them all. Slight bias for that model.

So at the moment the highest costed ss model from the PDF's I don't have the book yet, is the Desolation Engine at 13 but he is with Levi who is getting pushed back so realistically the highest ss is Hank or Killjoy at 12. Listed below is also the largest for each faction. My question to everyone is what do you think the largest ss model will be or will it stay with the Desolation Engine when he comes out. The big hitters left on the table that we have not seen is Ashes and Dust, Snow Storm, The final Desolation Engine, Nekima, Ryle, The riders, Izzamu, Rouge Necromancy, and then the unknown of what gremlins have hiding or new ten thunders stuff. I think that everyone I have listed here will be at least 10ss but I think they are going to have Nekima stay the biggest of the big at least I hope so and have her top out at 14-15ss. Let the Discussion commence. Mature and Teddy at 11 Fingers and Whisky Golem at 10 Peacekeeper 11 Hank at 12 Ten Thunders and bunch at 10ss The Hanged and Mortimer at 9 The Desolation Engine at 13 Killjoy at 12

So I do not have the new book and was wondering if an enemy model dies due to your Poison of Burning does it could as your kill now or does it still count as not your kill as it did in the past, in a similar vain what about hazardous terrain that you place down and forcing a model to fall?

So with the new plastic boxes coming out what are we supposed to do to get these models if we already own the whole crew. I don't know about everyone else but I have 2 Liliths and 4 Terror Tots and don't feel like I need any more but I do want Barbaros, so what am I supposed to do other then proxy? I mean I have the card already. Same thing goes for Cojo when he comes out. I also doubt he will be easy to find seperate because wyrd wont sell him seperate and spru cutters who sell peicemeal will charge almost the cost of the box because if u want the tots or Lilith u will want the whole box.

To this for me the upgrade system has a ton of promise at the moment and it really has room to grow and change, I think the biggest issue with the upgrade system is 4ss significant models, but all in all I don't like it I like having everything on the card but if you were going to do equipment this is a better way to do it then a generic pool where you buy from and this really is just a equipment system. I have to say I am not happy then went this way but since they did this is the best way to do it and they need to get more upgrades out soon which I don't think would be that hard.

First of all I liked how you put the comment that you like it the more you play it because I very much felt the same way, after my first game with Marcus one of my favorite masters in 1e i almost just said this was terrible and I quit, but I have liked it more and more the more I understand the difference. I agree and disagree with some of your statements the main one being I put the scheme and strats in my I don't like category at this point especially strategies. I really liked the gaining grounds strats and I think that schemes are still not where they need to be but I will definitely be interested in the final cut of them. As for the simplicity on the models as I keep looking at them its not that they have become more simple to me and I like the vibe off of most the models to me the feel of simplicity really hits home with the lack of AP on the very high stone models like the Mature Nephilum. Over all I feel that while the forums have very vocal I love this game and its amazing, or the this game is terrible we want to stay where we are. Though these two camps are loud and vocal I feel that most of the community is in a situation like you where you are not 100% sold on the new changes and feel somethings can be done better but are willing to give it a try. I do personally think though that wyrd might have needed some more time after the Beta to do some in house testing before sending the book to pint. Thank you for the post it was good to read what I think is a common feeling in that the game is different and the more you play the more you get used to it and can decided if it will be for you or not.

Love the name suggestions and you can't have the eye's showing with the beer goggles and is the Ninja effigy just a base cause you know Ninja.

So in Malifaux there have been two cycles of models that span every faction and I am bringing this post up to see what other people think will happen to these cycles for Gremlins and the Ten Thunders. For those who don't know the two cycles are the riders, Pale, Dead, Mechanical, Hooded, Avatar Levi. These are based off of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. The other is the Effigy cycle of Brutal, Necrotic, Arcane, Mysterious, Hodgepodge. These are an embodiment of what the factions are in a single model and all are dolls. What I think will happen is that the Horsemen will not be continued into the other factions I just don't see a pig rider, and dragon rider fitting into the this cycle, plus one of the key things of these models were that they play off of the suits of there faction and ALevi brings them all together. If they added another one it would feel forced as this feels like a complete unit. The effigys I believe though are a whole different animal and every faction should have one of these models. I personally hope to see a Dragon Effigy and a Bacon Effigy these are the names I give them but I would also like to hear other idea's for names of these models. I do understand that when 10 Thunders was released they did not get the effigy but I feel it is more of a 2nd wave model to give the cherry on top after people know what the faction is known for. SO what I want to hear from people is will we get new Horsemen or Effigies and if we do what names will they get.

I really want a Miss Manors the sculpt being a kinda cheesecake version of Rusty Alice, if you need to know when it happened in the fluff read chronicles 3.

Having faced him several times now I am becoming to lean more towards very good but not broken, overpowering but not oppressive. What has made him so good for the most part has already been said the combination of reposte, object, healing, positive twists, and I2I. But what makes him amazing is the faster movement with soul porter(1 master) and the ability to give support around him with summoning other models that need to be dealt with. I have not scene him with Kirai which I heard is good but until I see it I won't comment. He is the best minion in book 4 but I think you can deal with him by a good plan and understanding his threat range and killing support, though models like him got a huge boost in the new gaining grounds where speed is good but not everything, it also gave Ressers a huge boost as a faction with the new strategies. The main reason I have started to turn from broken to just really good is that the negating triggers is very good vs head-shot or disappearing act but you will almost never see them throw a card to get rid of flay or critical strike because most times giving a straight flip is riskier then the extra 2 points of damage. And without hard to wound a charge action can take large chunks out or if you take out the extra speed he can get you just avoid him. This being said he was a pushed model that is on the razor edge of no weakness, and I for one do not like seeing models pushed this far. These are my 2 cents think he is great and best minion book 4, I think he is a little uninspired and just a combination of great abilities but broken no because of the 10ss and it makes me sad when other models at that ss level with the same job just don't match up, though I can argue ressers now have the 2 best 10ss models in the game.

Ok Southern Charm says Attack and Damage Flips recieve a negative twist. I am just wanting to clarify what that means now because it does not mean the same thing it did when the book came out. It gives negative twists vs. Melee Strikes and Ranged Strikes(Weapons) Does not work Vs. Spells with a gun in the action or melee in the action Does not work vs. Spells without a gun or melee in the title. Does not work vs. Actions such as Gamble your Life. I am just confirming that this is the case as this has changed drastically since the rules manual and book 2. Most of this was based off of one of Ratty's clarifications.

To start this off I love this model and find every excuse to take her. First of all in the power cycle turns 1-2 are great then the rest of the game you want to keep her at turns 3-4 for total damage amounts, this only is different if the opponent gets points for her dieing. Second her drag can be nice but if you don't have the ram don't shoot cause her melee is so much better. Mei Fang: With her it is a great jumping point with rail walker, I like it with her more because turn one you can be 21 (Totem Tricks) inches out of deployment. It is also great as a taxi for the emberling because I love totems with link because channeled 3 inch spell damage is great and having soft cover for the rider is fantastic. Collette: Gives her a melee beatstick that is hard to kill because of armor but has almost no synergy, you are not going to take away Cassandra for her or really even a performer/mannie. And if you take her no duet, I have taken it with her multiple times. Marcus: Just a great solid model because most beast end up being squishy Ramos: don't know, don't play seems good because it is a solid model. Rasputina: I like to take it with her because it gives you a model that can work on its own, now that the blessed is out I would probubly go with the blessed for fluff. Kearis: Can't take unless with a master.