Malifaux tournaments

[Justin]

I wonder how Malifaux tournaments will work, with people being able to switch masters and crews every game? Do you declare a faction and just stick to that? Will the runners check lists in between every round? Or will that mechanic vanish with competitive play? Anyone who has ever run one want to chime in?

[mechaace]

I must admit I've never run one, but it could be the same as other people run tournaments where you turn up with a couple of lists and before the game starts you decide what list you're using. Could maybe just do it as the two lists or whatever must be from the same faction.

[nilus]

The tourney I ran had people declare a faction but could draft and change there crew each round. Its one of the aspect of Malifaux I really like and I hope to see more tourneys ran that way.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

I've ran a few tourneys for Malifaux.

I'm also the guy who made the Halloween Scenarios in WCIII.

What I like to do is have each player choose a faction to play for the whole event.

Secondly, I choose what the strategy is being played for the round. Both players have the same Strategy, they then hire their crews & choose 2 strategies.

For pairings, I choose randomly but try to make sure that faction does not play the same faction as well as not to have players face someone they've previously faced in the tournament.

And for list checking, your opponent can do a good job of adding to 30 by looking at your chosen cards.

[Justin]

I must admit I've never run one, but it could be the same as other people run tournaments where you turn up with a couple of lists and before the game starts you decide what list you're using. Could maybe just do it as the two lists or whatever must be from the same faction.

That's a good idea. I like this a lot, actually. Makes you think about what you might face before you get there.

The tourney I ran had people declare a faction but could draft and change there crew each round. Its one of the aspect of Malifaux I really like and I hope to see more tourneys ran that way.

So, did you check lists each round to see if people's math was right?

[Justin]

I've ran a few tourneys for Malifaux.

I'm also the guy who made the Halloween Scenarios in WCIII.

What I like to do is have each player choose a faction to play for the whole event.

Secondly, I choose what the strategy is being played for the round. Both players have the same Strategy, they then hire their crews & choose 2 strategies.

For pairings, I choose randomly but try to make sure that faction does not play the same faction as well as not to have players face someone they've previously faced in the tournament.

And for list checking, your opponent can do a good job of adding to 30 by looking at your chosen cards.

I never played those. They were just before my time. Played the hell out of the Christmas ones though. I think we may go back and check those out...

I like that everyone has the same sstrategy. Personally I even like it in my friendly games when we both happen to flip the same one. I don't know why, just something about both people racing to the middle for a treasure counter.

Good point about the cards.

[DireTrollJake]

First event I played in was 1 list all day and the T/O would flip for seat 1 and seat 2's scenario's. Each table was marked which seat was which.

Second event was predetermined Scenarios each round, as a couple were custom for the event theme, and everyone played the same for the round, just different tables. Here, we picked a faction and stuck within it's guidelines for the day.

Coming soon, we are having an event where you choose a list and play, then winner holds the table and continues with that list for a VP and W/L record for the day. When losing, you can choose an entirely new faction if you want.

[nilus]

[quote=Lalochezia;114123

So, did you check lists each round to see if people's math was right?

[blkdymnd]

I like the ideas I've heard (can't remember where from) of a set list to tourney with and then a sideboard. So if you have a 35ss tourney, you could show up with a set 35ss list and then a sideboard of 1 master and maybe 15ss worth of swappable models.

It would seem to me, without having played that format yet, that an open tournament where you just bring all your models and pick a faction would lean heavily towards those players that have been able to keep up with all their models releases and penalizes those that just build off of maybe one starter box.

[Justin]

I like the ideas I've heard (can't remember where from) of a set list to tourney with and then a sideboard. So if you have a 35ss tourney, you could show up with a set 35ss list and then a sideboard of 1 master and maybe 15ss worth of swappable models.

It would seem to me, without having played that format yet, that an open tournament where you just bring all your models and pick a faction would lean heavily towards those players that have been able to keep up with all their models releases and penalizes those that just build off of maybe one starter box.

Yeah, I do agree with this.

Even if I had every model in the game, I wouldn't want to have to bring them all to a tournament to give me the best chance possible.

[TheBugKing]

I've been discussing the whole sideboard idea quite a bit. It's an interesting idea. It works really well for the CCGs out there and since the game lends itself to a similar structure I think it would work really well.

A sideboard around half of the actual playing total along with 1 master I think is really good for Scraps.

A sideboard around half again but with two masters for Brawls.

The Brawls thing really opens up some neat interactions as well as you are effectively playing with 4 masters. Taking Ramos, the two Victorias, Rasputina and Leveticus really makes for some neat stuff. It also makes the primary list really hard to figure out.

Unlike the CCG structure I would think that people would bring +50% in points as their list. And you would construct it after you were assigned a table.

With this system I can see each player having their strategies flipped for like in the chair 1 and 2 example above. The TO could even come up with a few special themes that would be assigned randomly to chair 1 or 2.

Lots of options and Wyrd is gathering the feedback from the various tournaments to try to compile some official guidelines.

I personally think that keeping things relatively open is a good rout. I've seen too many really flexible systems become rigidly stuck in the Tournament System as the only games played. I think we would be doing Malifaux a disservice to try to pigeon hole the game into a single system.

My .02 on the subject as it stands right now at least.

[Justin]

I personally think that keeping things relatively open is a good rout. I've seen too many really flexible systems become rigidly stuck in the Tournament System as the only games played. I think we would be doing Malifaux a disservice to try to pigeon hole the game into a single system.

I agree with most everything you said, and I've seen the pigeon hole route that you're talking about here, but I just don't see that happening with Malifaux.

Because, you're right, Malifaux does have a lot more in common with CCGs than it necessarily does with other miniatures games. So, while miniatures games do tend to lend themselves to getting pigeon holed because they have a lot of rules that are simply for the sake of consistency and time constraints, I've never really seen that happen with a CCG. Take the example of the side board idea. No friendly CCG player ever brings a side board. They generally bring a box of decks and choose a different one in between games, much the same as choosing a different crew for Malifaux. The only place that you ever really see people playing the same deck over and over with a 15 card variance to sideboard is a tournament.

On the other hand, miniatures games often have specialized rules for tournaments (two units not being able to provide cover to each other in 40k, for example) that are for ease of play during the time constraint, which often work their way over to friendly games.

So, while Malifaux could potentially borrow a bit from each world, I think it is far more likely to tend towards the CCG route, as I don't see specialized game mechanics being needed for tournaments, simply limitations on the list being played. And maybe on the terain set up. (i.e. the organizer sets it up for you)

That isn't to say keeping an open mind about tournament formats isn't a good idea.

[Rathnard]

A bit of thread Necromancy, but this is a good topic so it deserves some more discussion.

The idea of a sideboard is a good one, but I think it needs refinement. With the nature of the game as it is, why not just require everyone to start with a set list of models (say, equivalent to a 45 SS scrap) and allow players to design their 25SS list each game from that 45 SS pool?*

Allowing more than 1 master is a possibility (it's equivalent to Warmachine tournaments where you take two lists with 2 different 'casters), but you want to be careful about giving players with the big collections an unfair advantage. Malifaux is still a very new game with a small player base. You don't want to drive those players away because they don't have enough models available to do well at the event.

Regarding Strategies, I'd prefer to see a system where players aren't always playing an identical Strategy to their opponent. Personally, I think it's something that could actually be randomised each round, with everyone playing each strategy once over the course of the event.

As for schemes, I'd like to see something similar - each player has a set number of schemes available, but each can be used only once during the event. That'd prevent people just picking the easiest schemes for them each round. Instead, they actually need to figure out when the best time is to employ the harder/easier schemes to maximise their chances of doing well.

*I can't take credit for this idea - it was suggested by someone else.

[Justin]

As for schemes, I'd like to see something similar - each player has a set number of schemes available, but each can be used only once during the event. That'd prevent people just picking the easiest schemes for them each round. Instead, they actually need to figure out when the best time is to employ the harder/easier schemes to maximise their chances of doing well.

*I can't take credit for this idea - it was suggested by someone else.

This is brilliant.

Love it.

[Erryll_Flynn]

The schemes used only once per tourney, was something we played under last weekend at a comp called "Stone Fever"

3 games on one day and Strategies were flipped for at the beginning of the game and again, only played once for the day.

Master was selected for the full day and crew was selected before each game.

Majority of players used the same lists with 1-2 models changed per mission and all in all it went rather smoothly.

E.

[paperbag4]

I played in a tourney where you could only use each scheme once. I enjoyed it, as it added an element of foresight to the encounters. "There's no reason for him to come past the halfway point, I'll take my Hold Out this round and save Sabotage for when I'm up against something nasty."

One thing that I haven't seen discussed a lot is tournament scoring. I've played both where it's straight VPs throughout the day, and where it's 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, and 0 for a tie. Of the two systems, I VASTLY prefer the latter, as sometimes you get the bad matchup and all you can hope to do is deny the opponent their strategy and accomplish your scheme. (Apparently the classic example of this is Som'er Teeth assassinating Lillith.) This allows both more flexibility in how you play your games out and doesn't create a situation where players agree to non-interaction to make sure they both get their 6 points.

[Justin]

I hate VP systems like that.

You also shouldn't be rewarded for wiping the board with some kid first round.

I've run 40k tournaments for a long time, and I always give 2 points for a win, 1 for a tie, and 0 for a loss. A tie in the final points is decided by painting, completion being the most important aspect. In other words, if you have a beautifully painted master, and the rest of your army is primed, the win will go to the guy with a fully painted army, so long as it is to a reasonable standard. If both players are fully painted, then I look at skill. (you would be surprised how little I ever made it that far)

[Wombats]

Stone Fever has a good idea for Strategies:

You randomly draw Strategies, but you don't repeat any.

You also have 6 Schemes for the whole tournament and can use as many as you like each game.

This meant you ran out of easy options and everyone played the same Strategies, in different orders, against different Strategies.

Specific Masters were set but you could swap your crew around - most people stuck with one set-up anyway.

Very relaxed and fun tournament, sooo much better than any Warhams tournament I've been to.

We also had a lady in a corset and red wig with a giant Lilith sword and a redneck with his pants and bracers on backwards over a chequered shirt in a straw hat.

Yeehaw.

Next Malifuxing event in Brisbane is called the Bayou Houtenanny

[macgowan]

You also have 6 Schemes for the whole tournament and can use as many as you like each game.

As many Schemes as you like? Once you use these, can you not play that Scheme any more? Playing 6 Schemes in one game seems a little wacky to me.

I've said this in another post but I'll say it in this one. I think there are two simple and viable options for tournaments.

1. Build a different list for each Strategy beforehand, and when your strategy comes up, use that list. No fuss, no muss, no proxies.

2. Build a Crew for a specific Strategy, which you will pick Turn 1. No proxies in this list. However, in later rounds you may proxy figures if you need to.

This encourages people to try new strategies, promotes the spirit of the game better, helps to expand the local player base, and helps to sell more models. We let new people do this for local Warmachine tournaments. Everybody has more fun, and it almost always increases sales.

[Atticus]

We're doing a tourney here 4/17 with the sideboard option. It's a 30SS tourney, but you can have two Masters from the same faction Master and up to 50SS in figures, build your list for each round after determining Strategy. I believe the intent is to follow the book on Strategies and Schemes, although some of these thoughts are interesting.

As far as a disadvantage due to collection size, it may just be me, but with as few models as are currently out, I can't see a huge advantage or disadvantage by opening it up to the entire collection as long as you have to play the same faction each round.

An interesting thought on the sideboard option we are using, Gremlins especially and Outcasts in general face a disadvantage. Due to the build restrictions you would probably be limited to one Master because with Gremlins especially I cannot build a 30SS list with a 20SS sideboard with enough models for a different Outcasts caster to use. There's not enough overlap in available models. To me having to use the same Master would be a big disadvantage due to some very unfavorable match-ups. I don't play the Viktorias or Leveticus, but I could see them having similar issues.

[marcraxus]

Sorry to highjack this, but it runs in line with my question.

Con season is starting, and I was wondering if the Powers That Be have decided on any kind of format for official events at Gencon this year? Some of the other companies have posted schedules already, and I haven't seen anything here. Registration opens shortly.

[newsun]

Wyrd should have attended and ran something at Adepticon, next year for sure.

[Subötai]

Wyrd should have attended and ran something at Adepticon, next year for sure.

Adepticon would likely require some screwball rule like "all minis need to be on GW bases", or "only GW paint and wet blending".

[Nathan Caroland]

Sorry to highjack this, but it runs in line with my question.

Con season is starting, and I was wondering if the Powers That Be have decided on any kind of format for official events at Gencon this year? Some of the other companies have posted schedules already, and I haven't seen anything here. Registration opens shortly.

That'll make its way up here soon.

[Amarel]

UK official tournament puhleezze