Alpha Marcus

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 hours ago, aquenaton said:

Is the double negation on on Wilds of Malifaux intentional? Is every model placed by enemies forced to appear almost in melee with Marcus? it seems horribly annoying, even for my Bayou standards.

I'm sure it is a typo, otherwise they would have just said must.

No way would they intentionally use cannot not for this effect.

See gravity well for the effect they're trying for.

[Jordon]

I'm curious in what situations you'd take OG Marcus over Alpha? What is OG Marcus doing better?

[dannydb]

Getting left behind? 

[Adran]

2 hours ago, Jordon said:

I'm curious in what situations you'd take OG Marcus over Alpha? What is OG Marcus doing better?

More card draw, more support/crew movement tricks, reduced hiring costs for beasts. Its easier to do more attacks with OG Marcus than with Pack leader (Pouncing strike does allow 6 attacks across 2 models if you want).

[Peturd]

So the eagle… has anyone tried it out with a proxy? I haven’t had a chance yet. I find it hard to expect it to do anything alone, but maybe okay with support. But then it becomes a situation of, “would I have just been better off supporting a better model”?

It is better than a moleman. Give it a mutation and focus, and it can pling something for 3 or 5 damage reliably while getting a scheme marker placed. With a threat of 26”. But that’s once, and the mutation is gone if nothin is close.

Can harass weak back line stuff while scheming maybe? From behind terrain. Chimera has no shortage of models that can intercept and kill other schemers. Maybe the bird and saber tooth working together? Keeps up to the cat easier than an initiate. They can just toss the mutations back and forth to each other. 

Against some crews the deployment trick is great. Against others it’s meaningless.

I clearly dont know, this was just a stream of thoughts because I want Marcus to use birds again!

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 hours ago, Jordon said:

I'm curious in what situations you'd take OG Marcus over Alpha? What is OG Marcus doing better?

If you want to do cache kitties, I think Marc1 is probably better in most situations?

He doesn't really compete for stones.

And as Adran said, better card draw, more repositioning and support. And I would add accomplice is just wildly powerful (though may be more of a consideration for Neverborn).

[Maniacal_cackle]

As an example play I've done that this Marcus can't do...

Marcus bonus actions to move Scorpius, commands it to move with another AP. Marcus walks up. Commands Scorpius to charge (now opponent has neurotoxins).

Accomplice into beater (like Cerberus). Kill the model that is now unable to use soulstones due to neurotoxins.

Scorpius (or whichever model youre using) could start 14+ inches away from its original position, so it is incredibly difficult for an opponent to play around that.

Marcus 1 is the only master in the game that has accomplice so far, I think. It is normally reserved for like 4 stone support models. Having it on a master wins games IMO.

[extremor]

7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Marcus 1 is the only master in the game that has accomplice so far, I think. It is normally reserved for like 4 stone support models. Having it on a master wins games IMO.

Exactly. A lot of people are heavily surprised by (NVB) Marcus getting initiative each turn and kill 1-2 models before they can activate at all. Call of the wild with build in charge and accomplice is awesome imho. 

[Barmution]

14 hours ago, Adran said:

More card draw, more support/crew movement tricks, reduced hiring costs for beasts. Its easier to do more attacks with OG Marcus than with Pack leader (Pouncing strike does allow 6 attacks across 2 models if you want).

This. It's easy to underestimate the impact of card draw. You can have a couple of key models massively underperform even with +flips on every action if you don't have the card draw to be able to support them. Lack of card draw makes any crew a lot more swingy and makes it really hard to score and deny in killy pools. Potential doesn't mean much if you never get to realize it.

[Math Mathonwy]

On 8/26/2021 at 2:19 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Marcus 1 is the only master in the game that has accomplice so far, I think. It is normally reserved for like 4 stone support models. Having it on a master wins games IMO.

Nicodem also has Accoplice though I dunno whether Dead Hand counts as "being in the game" anymore  

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Nicodem also has Accoplice though I dunno whether Dead Hand counts as "being in the game" anymore  

Well... Nicodem just got a LOT better in my mind xD

But yeah, I don't count DMH xD

[Peturd]

Got a game in last night with Marcus, Alpha vs Bandit. You can set up some HURT on models with Marcus. I wasn’t sure how to swing this pool so I took 7 stones. Needed them all to maximize his turns and for cards. Almost took out Parker in one activation on turn two from corner deployment. But he got lucky and red joker’d his soulstone damage reduction. Turn 3 Marcus killed Sue, a dead outlaw and got in place to grab a symbol turn 4. Was a low scoring game of 3:1 in Marcus favour. Bandits never made it to the halfway line.

Pool: corner, symbols of authority, break through, detonate charges, catch and release, death beds, bait and switch.

[Raising]

can you get in more detail about the turn 2 marcus almost killing parker? did you have a exceptional hand for it?

what list did you use? how much efort did you place on placing mutations?

[Peturd]

58 minutes ago, Raising said:

can you get in more detail about the turn 2 marcus almost killing parker? did you have a exceptional hand for it?

what list did you use? how much efort did you place on placing mutations?

I had a solid hand, stoned turn 1&2 so I went into the fight with 3 severe cards in hand. Myranda ran up with two mutations, he thought Marcus was too far away, so activated mad dog to kill the Cerberus. So when Marcus leaps, then charges (with horns) he hits with a plus on the damage flip. Cheated in a 13 of masks in the duel. Straight damage flip, cheated a severe for 8 damage. Then focus+adaptive evolution for free mask and double positive on the duel. Another straight flip dmg and flipped a severe for 8 more. Third action landed a weak flip, but with a mask on the duel so it was for 4. So obviously some of that was stoned. But still, crazy hits when there is enough mutations nearby. And last hit pushes Parker to 2” away. As I’d rather be shot with Marcus than melee’d.

Was a chunk of resources, but well spent.

The mutations just kind of went naturally. I think it’s be easy to over think or position poorly trying to maximize it, but I never felt short on mutations.

I am not sure what the ideal crew is to bring with this Marcus, but the one I took felt like it wasn’t quite there. I might have liked a second initiate. I had:

marcus, jackelope, Myranda, order initiate (mt), beast within (ssc), Cerberus, and a mauler with 7 stones. More mutation targets than mutations. Not ideal. But wanted to just feel some things out. Beast within was great to get extra movement out of the corner.

[Raising]

I see . he could just step away from myranda to prevent such insane damage. 

 

thanks you for the insight. on normal marcus I do a buch of min 4 damage attacks with initiates with dire consecuences. and way less hand requeriments. Is part of what I like from it.

 

also I play more in neverborn. so a lot of diferences

 

 

[Peturd]

3 hours ago, Raising said:

I see . he could just step away from myranda to prevent such insane damage. 

 

thanks you for the insight. on normal marcus I do a buch of min 4 damage attacks with initiates with dire consecuences. and way less hand requeriments. Is part of what I like from it.

 

also I play more in neverborn. so a lot of diferences

 

 

I mean, this was simply an anecdote as requested not a tactica. And they can’t count to “just step away” since I could have accomplice’d into Marcus. Or on other turns had other stuff nearby. Plus leaps to get into position.

I don’t understand the point on initiates … it’s the same ability .. they can’t do it with “less hand requirements”. That doesn’t make any sense. Same stat. Same trigger .. and can take them too. In this case I was forcing it to maximize damage on the master to dive for a turn 2 kill. No reason not to just swing for the fences like with the orders, plus leap and get a fourth attack for a stone when it is worth it.

Just some thoughts. Maybe I’m completely missing your point though?

[Raising]

sorry. by less hand requeriments is that I aim for a weak +2 damage instead of a severe+2.

 

good point about doing acomplice from myranda if the distance is right.

I didnt intent to undermine your performance. Just started wondering when can a Marcus1 to deliver somecing similar to what you did

[Raising]

for what you said your marcus es was 6" + 40mm +6"(13.6") away from the target.

In order to push harder that range myranda could acomplice into him after moving him into that range (given you use other model to get mutations close to the target) and placing a 3rd mutation on him.

 

since acomplice is. 6" having marcus close enought to myranda you could add 6"+40mm(7.6")  to the previous range landing in 7.6+13.6= 21.2" measured from myranda having any model with at least one mutation in position for chimera strike. (Grootslang. with armor maybe in neverborn).

 

thats a stupidly big murder area, even without severe damage you ae looking a 4min damage 3 attacks. and you cant really mimic it with marcus1

[Peturd]

Oh, I think I was just kind of missing the point. You are definitely right on both the order initiate point and even more so, the fact that usually aiming for 3-4 min4 attacks is way more efficient than trying to force severed!

[Maniacal_cackle]

If forcing severes, I think cojo (and rougarou) are better for it in a Marcus 1 build.

So I think Neverborn Marcus is better suited to forcing severes.