Arcanist title speculations

[MrPieChee]

Ha! Not sure how I missed it on Asami's other card!

Well, we can still hope.

[Jinn]

8 hours ago, MrPieChee said:

Now that the new asami title has emerald shimmer (obeys can't gain flicker tokens), do you think Marcus will get that for upgrades?

Would be great to see on the upgrade cards themselves, but I guess that's too many cards to change for an errata

I somehow hope that the new Marcus has nothing to do with upgrades personally, but I think that's impossible given the rest of the keyword is kind of built assuming they have them.

[dancater]

5 hours ago, Jinn said:

I somehow hope that the new Marcus has nothing to do with upgrades personally, but I think that's impossible given the rest of the keyword is kind of built assuming they have them.

True, but that doesn't preclude alternative methods of dealing out Chimera upgrades, foremost as Yumi shows they could easily bring out a Chimera model that provides upgrades in lieu of Marcus in some fashion. Or give alt-Marcus an alternative method of handing out, spreading upgrades.

But I imagine Marcus will retain the upgrade schtick.

The interesting thing is they appear to be providing an alternative non-summon Master option to some primary summoners, so this has implications for Sandeep and some real Academic love.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

The best way to handle upgrades with Marcus is to give him an ability:

"Mutation plague: whenever the jackalope attacks a friendly beast or chimera model, you may attach a mutation upgrade to that model (once per turn per model)."

Boom! Though then jackalope couldn't have upgrades

[MrPieChee]

It would probably be easier to just have an ability that hands them out during deployment:

Wild experiments: during deployment distribute 4 mutation upgrades to beast models in your crew. If Marcus is the leader, distribute 8 instead.

 

If Marcus becomes a summoner, then he could attach one when summoning. A trigger could allow a second to be attached.

 

But I don't really know what I want to see from the new title. I guess a summoner is the most likely? But Marcus could become a beater?

[Cats Laughing]

On 7/8/2021 at 9:05 AM, MrPieChee said:

Ha! Not sure how I missed it on Asami's other card!

Well, we can still hope.

It's not just on original Asami's card, but also on the upgrade Asami's totem gets if she ever dies before him.  Basically with the way the flicker mechanic works (instant kill if you end any activation with 3+) you can't allow opponents to add flicker to your models.

 

That said, new Marcus could have something to protect upgrades on his models (or gain some benefit if they are discarded by an opponent).

[frumpypigskin]

On 7/10/2021 at 12:30 AM, Cats Laughing said:

That said, new Marcus could have something to protect upgrades on his models (or gain some benefit if they are discarded by an opponent).

What about draw a card if within 6" of Marcus... 😜

[dancater]

On 4/30/2021 at 8:34 AM, dancater said:

Ironsides, go a rabble rouser support/healing build, so more interaction at range, increase her capacity to hand out Burning (fire bombing rioter's) and allowing her a ranged heal to support her crew, make Ironsides go from an up close brawler to a back of the protest firebrand.

 

On 4/30/2021 at 12:02 AM, Jordon said:

Toni would make a great support/scheme lady as she undertakes more of the M&SU boss role. 

 

On 4/29/2021 at 3:36 AM, Peturd said:

Toni, Union President - operating a little bit like Lucious commanding her own models

So looking at this, Peturd nailed the exact title and we were all pretty close on the idea of a more back line support. Not so much heal, no real fire but she got a summon.

Seven more titles to go, wonder who will be closest next time.

[Mycellanious]

Ooh, you know what would be cool? If Titled Hoffman got an Aura / Bonus Action that allowed the Armor ability of friendly Keyword models to reduce damage to 0. 

[Peturd]

34 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Ooh, you know what would be cool? If Titled Hoffman got an Aura / Bonus Action that allowed the Armor ability of friendly Keyword models to reduce damage to 0. 

That would be a nice trade for losing the ability to make armor not be able to be ignored

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

Ooh, you know what would be cool? If Titled Hoffman got an Aura / Bonus Action that allowed the Armor ability of friendly Keyword models to reduce damage to 0. 

That's a neat idea, but that would be an enormous power jump for Hoffman.

How do you build against Hoffman1? Tons of ping damage.

How do you build against  Hoffman2? The opposite.

Crew building would be so hard against him it would be ridiculous xD

[Peturd]

Yeah, the difference between the two Toni’s is how useful arson will be against them. But one mode with arson will be plenty to mess up the Union president, and if it’s the other Toni then it won’t be a huge loss on investment.

[dancater]

On 4/30/2021 at 8:34 AM, dancater said:

Hoffman, a control style perhaps where control tokens generate static charges which move, push, pull and lock enemy models and with his allied models he can arc his charges out, literally an arc-node style similar to Raspy's Ice Pillars. Letting the Hoff crew play very spread out while forcing the opposition into a clump, the reverse of his current metal-ball play style.

I am hoping for a variation of Hoffman that is not as bubble and attrition/armour based.

Thus far they have made a concerted effort to address master/crew weaknesses by emphasising a different playstyle, generating both more diversity and at the same time boosting the play of existing masters and crews. So I think its unlikely that we see a simple improvement/modification to the Hoff armour-ball. At least I hope not.

I have, so far, been really pleased with the thought, effort and results we've seen on these pre-releases. They seem playable, not over-powered, different, and neither dominant nor marginal at release. Obviously Wyrd has really laid ground work during the last (Covid) year and not sat on their hands. I am trying not to be overly optimistic to think that every master (+1) release will be stellar, but it does look like we've got much more wheat than chaff.

While several of us were at least in the neighbourhood of the Ironsides changes, the changes to some other masters I've seen I would not have guessed, notably Yan-Lo and Asami surprised me. 

I did feel Ironsides had a relatively obvious path as to the direction taken, hence the good guesswork. But for several Arcanist masters I really am uncertain on my guesses, notably Colette (not real sure), Hoffman (very uncertain), and especially Marcus (this was pure guesswork when I made it, I truly have no idea how to vary Marcus and stay even close to the upgrade mechanic. Maybe they remove upgrades in titles, we have not seen an upgrade master or upgrade title yet??, Maybe they move upgrades play to different masters, we have yet to see, and here Hoffman [bodge job upgrades] or even Colette [illusion upgrades] could be a chance).

A huge influence will also be which non-faction masters are paired with Arcanist's as the releases certainly seem to be paired across the board. We have not seen a Bayou title yet either, what pairs into Bayou, I can definitely see Mah and tricksy (already some cross play) and obviously Wong potentially pairing into Arcanists, maybe Zoraida or Ulix pairing into Marcus - Beast/Swampfiend. Do we see a pairing within Rezzers [won't be von Schtook which seemed obvious into Academic, so a twisted Colette/Seamus maybe?)? With Outcasts (Hell maybe Hamelin and Marcus, or something with Parker?)?

We already have cross-faction with Guild and Neverborn, we've now got a pairing with Explorers and Ten Thunders has always been a heavily dual themed cross-faction, even where that has been reduced it holds in theme.

So much design space, so many possibilities.   

[Peturd]

I’ve had some drinks and think it’s a great time to speculate pairings:

Toni to Anya (Explorers)

Kaeris vs Reva (Ressers)

Raspy vs Euripides (Neverborn)

Sandeep vs Von Schtook (Ressers)

Marcus vs Cornelius (Guild)

Colette vs Youko or Lynch (10T)

Mei Feng vs Mah (Bayou)

Hoffman vs Leveticus (Outcast)

So, I can at least confidently say I’m 1/8. There doesn’t seem to be any way to match Arcanist to Arcanist unless it’s one of the duel faction masters. But that’s a mental can of worms I can’t open right now. So here is my non-sober baseless speculation in pairing. 

[dancater]

On 8/8/2021 at 1:48 PM, Peturd said:

Sandeep vs Von Schtook (Ressers)

Ignore this This is impossible as von Schtook is gone, otherwise yeah OK. Incorrect

So for my guesses. Let's assume that each different faction links to at least one Arcanist master.

Done

• Ironsides - Anya (Explorers)

Still to go, I've tried to be unexpected as much as possible, while still maintaining some link, where I could see a joint model

• Colette  - Seamus (Rezzers) or maybe Youko (TT) or even English Ivan (Explorers)
• Mei - Basse (Guild/Explorers) or maybe Mah (Bayou) 
• Hoffman - Leveticus (Outcasts) 
• Sandeep - Shen Long (Ten Thunders) or maybe Wong (Bayou)
• Marcus - Ulix (Bayou) or maybe Hamelin (Outcasts) or even McMourning (Rezzers)
• Kaeris - Reva (Rezzers) or maybe Sonnia (Guild)
• Rasputina - Euripides (Neverborn) 

I feel like Hoffman and Rasputina are to obvious, but I can't really see what else leaps out.

I'm very curious to see which of these masters partner up with who...

• Nexus (Explorers)
• Zipp (Bayou/Outcasts)
• Jedza (Explorers) > ended up with Zoraida

Also gone (outside our faction) are

• Dreamer and Asami
• Viks with Yan Lo
• Molly with Nekima
• Now Jedza with Zoraida
• Have we also accounted for Sonnia and Kirai paired in the Malifaux/Otherside box, I think so

We've seen spoiled, but not paired

• Von Schtook (as pointed out by Peturd below), poor professor all by himself at the moment

[Peturd]

Unless you know something I don’t, Von Schtook isn’t taken yet. They revealed his card … but not the other master in his box or shared model.

[dancater]

15 hours ago, Peturd said:

Unless you know something I don’t, Von Schtook isn’t taken yet. They revealed his card … but not the other master in his box or shared model.

Valid point, I very much stand corrected.

 

[Cats Laughing]

On 8/8/2021 at 6:31 AM, dancater said:

I'm very curious to see which of these masters partner up with who...

• Jedza (Explorers)

These three in particular stumped me for obvious cross-over potential which fit their theme and someone other master, especially Nexus.

Zoraida here,

 

So given that pairing (and stuff like Asami-Dreamer, Viks-YanLo, Nekima-Molly), I feel like potential pairings could be all over the place.

[Peturd]

22 minutes ago, Cats Laughing said:

Zoraida here,

 

So given that pairing (and stuff like Asami-Dreamer, Viks-YanLo, Nekima-Molly), I feel like potential pairings could be all over the place.

Zoraida and Jedza are tied thematically and in lore. They have known each other longer than most characters in Malifaux have lived by a large margin!

EDIT: but yes, definitely agree, a lot of these pairings will be random or surprising

[dancater]

So yep.

Jedza and MamaZ together, with a literal mobile burial mound support.

Jedza becomes more deadly with nasty potential direct damage, and continuing a trend she (and MamaZ) gets a couple of summon avenues. Not sure if I'd fear this titled Jedza more than OG Jedza, the OG version is insanely hard to eliminate, but not deadly. This one, urggh.

MamaZ, more movement, more schemes, can summon nearly any effigy, I suspect harder to kill and Gupps become a relevant model to actually own. But NO obey. So totally different play-style to OG Zoraida simply based on that lack of obey. Not sure this will do anything for Spawnmother. Witch's Brew could be truly terrifying (assuming you remember its effect in play, but if you do, damn). 

Kurgan, well holy balls, this thing moves models (and terrain) like a god, with its base size and auras it can control a huge chunk of table area. Its going to be a must kill, or control as its WP kinda sucks, and looks demonstrably tough to down with Armour 2, 8 Wounds and even a tiny heal. Its Neverborn so at least it won't see Explorers OOK, but betting some NB players see an OOK use for it at 9 stones.

Overall, more of what we are coming to expect. Very different playstyle, while retaining theme and not appreciably increasing (or decreasing) power, the relevant faction boards are theorycrafting without doomsaying.

So far the Wyrd hitting streak appears to continue.  

[clockworkspide]

On reflection, I think I want to see a Chimera/Sooey or Chimera/Pig model.  It's an interesting thematic contrast:  Marcus is about making things – and people – feral and returning them to a more primal state (at least in terms of philosophy, even if his 3E playstyle doesn't involve turning people into beasts and Alphaing them anymore) whereas Ulix's career is in animal husbandry;  in other words, putting the natural world under the control of people for their benefit.

[Cats Laughing]

Marcus and McMourning already have a strong connection (Myranda) so i would not be remotely surprised if that's a pairing

[Peturd]

These are not predictions. You could honestly do a few resser and Arcanist pairs:

Kaeris and Reva for pyres, Colette and Seamus for some obvious reasons, Marcus and McMourning with their connection and shared theme.

[dancater]

On 8/11/2021 at 11:00 AM, Peturd said:

Kaeris and Reva for pyres,

Done.

Kaeris and Reva are matched.

Also Lucius and Cadmus, which solves that question as well.

[dancater]

From Wyrd site

"bringing new title cards for every master this side of the Breach! With the introduction of these Title cards, and an additional 40 new characters introduced to the world of Malifaux, you’ll be able to expand and customize your favorite crew like never before!"

8 factions each with 8 masters (64 total masters) divided as:

So, please check my math:

• Guild 5 unique master 3 dual faction
• Rezzers 6 unique master 2 dual faction
• Neverborn 5 unique master 3 dual faction
• Arcanist 5 unique master 3 dual faction
• Outcasts 6 unique master 2 dual faction
• Bayou 6 unique master 2 dual faction
• Ten Thunders 5 unique master 3 dual faction
• Explorers 6 unique master 2 dual faction 

That equals 44 unique masters and 20 dual masters. 

So this means 54 separate masters, so 54 new titles, and 40 new characters coming.

Assuming every title has at least one shared character, then 27 characters will bridge the gap between any two titles. Leaving 13 characters, the Other Side Court of Two and Guild boxes have seven characters unique to 2 Guild (Guild mage, Gatling guns) or 2 Neverborn (Enslaved spirit, Gwisin) with also Ikiryo who maybe be a variant but would that classify as "new", lets say no. 

This leaves 34 new characters.

The other new characters we know of are Deacon (Kaeris/Reva), Cavatica (Nexus/Lucius), Lady Yume (Dreamer/Asami), The Kurgan (Jedza/MamaZ), Noxious Nephlim (Nekima/Molly), Kenshiro (Viks/Yan Lo), the Drudge (Ironsides/Anya). That is 7 new characters, across 14 masters.

Leaving 27 more.

The Outcast box has potentially 3 more Yannic Waller, Catalan brawler and Catalan Rifleman. As does the Bayou box with 4 Stumpy, Fluffernutter, Ruffles and Bo Peep. If they count then that is 7 more.

Down to 20. So what is left.

Theoretically if every master gets a dual keyword model we need a total of 27, and we've definitely had 7, meaning we'd need 20 more. But with Kirai and Sonnia getting specific Otherside releases could we count them both out meaning 18 to go? The starter boxes contain Syndicate (3), Sooey (1), Whiz Bang (1), Tricksy (1) and Swampfiend (1), but given at least Swampfiend has The Kurgan that does not seem to limit the dual keyword option.

So if the Otherside box does cover Sonnia and Kirai we seem to have potentially 2 open model slots. If Sonnia and Kirai will get a dual keyword still then we have 1 open model slot. All this assuming every title has a dual keyword model.

And what about future Starter boxes. We've seen Explorers which is simply a release point for known models, Outcasts 3 new models, Bayou 4 new models (from Bayou Bash game). Does the Otherside box count as the starter boxes (will that box be released as 2 separate starters?) for Guild (the Gunner and Mage are versatile, will the Guild box contain these two? What does that mean if you bought the Otherside box? Will there be a third versatile Henchman or Enforcer?). Does this mean that the Enslaved spirit and Gwisin will be versatile models, and does the same apply to Rezzers here as Guild? What about new models for starter boxes in the other factions, so Arcanists, Ten Thunders, Neverborn? Will they each get three new models? Will the forthcoming release include them? If so it would seem we have at least 11 models we have not seen contained in the starter boxes.

This is a lot of meaningless math and pure speculation, but it interested me to break it down thusly. I've posted this exact post as a new thread in Malifaux general.