Maogrim Posted December 25, 2020 Report Share Posted December 25, 2020 你们好! Let's address the 600 pound shadowy elephant in the room, honored and appreciated Thunder siblings: Not only did the posh, stuck-up members of the Explorers Society steal Youko Hamasaki's sole unique action (Backroom Dealings), not only do they fight us over the loyalty of Lucas McCabe, not only will one of them break poor comrade Mei Feng's heart ... No, they even shamelessly copied the Oyabun's esteemed Shadow Markers! So, everyone's aware that this scoundrel English Ivan and his Umbra Keyword have a thing for Shadow Markers themeselves and quite a few of them will pop up when they face off with Last Blossom. Sure, both are limited to using their own friendly Shadow Markers, but who does it better? Ivan and his keyword seem to be incredibly strong, but Misaki is said to be one of the more competitive Thunders masters. Who do you think will come out as the victor in their inevitable and monumental clash of shadows? Or who might at least have a slight edge, even if everything's possible in Malifaux? PS: Completely forgot, sorry... Happy Holidays everybody. Hope you all enjoy time with your loved ones and stay safe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedar Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 As always - depends on Strategy, Schemes and map :P If you are talking about gaining benefits from shadow markers then I'd say Ivan crew gets more of them than Last Blossom. Also, in few cases Shadow Markers are actually a disadvantage for last blossom as not every model ignores them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Ivan gains some benefits ( concealing) from last blossoming shadows, where as they gain nothing from his, so if everything was exactly equal before you saw your opponents crew, then Ivan may get a slight boost depending on how misaki plays the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedar Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, Adran said: Ivan gains some benefits ( concealing) from last blossoming shadows, where as they gain nothing from his, so if everything was exactly equal before you saw your opponents crew, then Ivan may get a slight boost depending on how misaki plays the game. Technically torakage can use Ninja vanish on Ivan shadow markers (it doesn't specify friendly shadow markers), though most of the DUA/Umbra keyword carries about concealing terrain trait, not necessarily Shadow Markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 38 minutes ago, Cedar said: Technically torakage can use Ninja vanish on Ivan shadow markers (it doesn't specify friendly shadow markers), though most of the DUA/Umbra keyword carries about concealing terrain trait, not necessarily Shadow Markers. Friendly scheme or Shadow markers is the wording, I’m afraid. You might argue otherwise, but I doubt you’ll find many who’d agree with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedar Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Regelridderen said: Friendly scheme or Shadow markers is the wording, I’m afraid. You might argue otherwise, but I doubt you’ll find many who’d agree with you. Actually most of people i'm talking with regarding this or Ivan's penumbral converter says that it should be worded like "friendly scheme marker or friendly shadow marker". It would be nice to have some clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Cedar said: Actually most of people i'm talking with regarding this or Ivan's penumbral converter says that it should be worded like "friendly scheme marker or friendly shadow marker". It would be nice to have some clarification. I can see your point, but when you are límited with a specific size in a card... Maybe this need a clarification, but as i read It, both scheme or shadow must be friendly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Vening Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, belorey said: I can see your point, but when you are límited with a specific size in a card... Maybe this need a clarification, but as i read It, both scheme or shadow must be friendly. Yup. While it's possible that's not the intent, it definitely seems like it. Especially as you can get that alternate definition with the same word count if you wanted. Target friendly scheme or shadow marker = both friendly. Target shadow or friendly scheme marker = obvious difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemaru Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 When i tried the matchup -we played as torakage only able to target friendly shadow makers ... all the last blossom have always to target their own shadow marker don't think torakage make an execption - it was not a problem for Misaki crew. As they are affected already by their own shadow makers' concealment most of the crew just ignore concealment.. so it was really not problematic. we played on a map with a lot of forest so shadow makers were not the main concern about concealement and Ivan positive flip. But from a strat & schemes point of view it was not too problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonQOT Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 Would a Charm Warder be a gold tech piece here? Seems like her gubbins would be perfect for knocking the legs out of Ivan, what with the demise countering, summon eating, and attacks being able to ignore -flips. Or am I overselling their potential here? Edit: Oh wait, Umbra's not incorporeal. Still, the position stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maogrim Posted March 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 10:51 PM, DonQOT said: Would a Charm Warder be a gold tech piece here? Seems like her gubbins would be perfect for knocking the legs out of Ivan, what with the demise countering, summon eating, and attacks being able to ignore -flips. Or am I overselling their potential here? Edit: Oh wait, Umbra's not incorporeal. Still, the position stands. Sadly Ivan is able to summon Brocken Spectres off of 6 WP models when using Runic Siphon with the Intercision trigger and that pretty much discourages one from using WP 6 Models against Umbra. I guess you'd at least put 2 wounds on the spectre, but I don't know if it would be worth opening that particular door. And they are OOK hires as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 I think Charm Warders would maybe be worth it, but they can't get exorcism guaranteed, can they? So it is more likely to provide summons a way to get on the board. Edit: although stat 8 when defending could be pretty potent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonQOT Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 I see that, kinda feel like this is maybe a good trap for Ivan though, if he commits to getting Intercision off of the Warder, he has to hit into that potential effective 8 stat Wp and burn his crows (or, admittedly, his way too easily acquired +flips), all to end up with a 6 health specter which can die to an average crow from the warder. This doesn't stop Ivan, but I feel like it can help, and if he goes after anything else in the bubble to get an easier summon off, he still risks the Exorcism and anything he can summon is still in easy striking distance from Last Blossom damage tracks. This makes his summons less good at screening the rest of his crew from engagement which is where Blossom wants to be and DUA definitely doesnt or gumming up the scheme game if Misaki is going for that That said, yeah 8s ook isn't great for what is at best a soft counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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