Need a few pointers for beating up Von Shtook

[Regelridderen]

My Pandora has taken up a challenge from Von Shtook in :

Corrupted Idols – Wedge Deployment

Breakthrough, Harness Ley Line, Search the Ruins, Hold up their Forces, Outflank

Since it's my first time vs Transmortis, I'd love a few pointers in countering him, and what to expect?

Thanks

[MajorUndead]

I haven't played that many games of Malifaux, with Von Schtook or in general, I'm definitely no pro competitive player.
Also, I'm really not familiar with Pandora's crew, so maybe I'll mention things that don't matter so much for Pandora

Anyway here are some thoughts I have :

Von Schtook has a pulse action that gives out focus to transmortis models, and a trigger on one of his attacks that gives him focus as well, so I'm thinking The carver might be quite a pain against transmortis.

It's always worth noting that Von Schtook has an action that enables him to remove any number of conditions on a target, and has a built in trigger that makes the target suffer as much damage as the highest value of one of the removed condition. So you shouldn't rely on stacking one condition on one model (like how Kaeris might want to have a lot of burning on a fire golem for instance).

Also, since Von Schtook can remove any number of conditions on his friendly models, you probably want to spread out negative conditions on several ennemy models rather than "put all your eggs in one basket".
 

The transmortis crew has a lot of ways to give out the injured condition, which can really help their attack potential.
So you might want to take some condition removal on your crew (I'm not familiar with Pandora, I don't know if her crew has access to condition removal, but you could always get Serena Bowman or take the Eldritch Magic upgrade - which could also be used to remove focus on transmortis models)

I think it's also important to note that Von Schtook's crew can be deceptively fast.
His pulse that gives out focus makes models also push up to 3" (but it's only once per turn), the undergraduates can push models up to 4" (can only do it once on the same model per turn), and Von Schtook can give out fast to models that have an attached upgrade (with a built in trigger of his action that removes condition. Plus he can put upgrades on friendly transmortis models, so if he wants to give fast to a model, he'll be able to).
Also his totem, the research asssitant, gives out +1Mv to models starting their activation near him.

So with 2 undergraduates, one pulse from Schtook, all affecting the same mode, you have 4"+4"+3"=11" inches.
If that model was also given fast, with the +1Mv from the research asssitant, that is one hell of a threat range turn one (especially on the Valedictorian who has flight, and the "on your heels" trigger on her bonus action)

That's all I have for now.
I'm sure some people might have better insight though 😄

 

[Paddywhack]

Remember that almost every Transmortis model can hand out Stunned, so they will be using it often. If you have someone you need triggers to get the best out of, you might want to keep a high card to try and avoid the inevitable Lecture Notes attack. It's not great to have your Master Stunned for the turn. Condition removal would be good if you have any to bring.

The totem has a great Shockwave attack along with that +1Mv aura. He's very squishy though - take him out early if you can. 

VonSchtook can be squishy as well as long as you can declare triggers to get around his Disarmed defensive trigger. Keep in mind though that within 6" of him, all your models lose the benefits of any attached upgrades. No Butterfly Kick upgrade if Shtook is nearby! The only model in keyword that can heal him (as he is a living) is the Student of Viscera, but he has to be within 2". With Viscera's speed and desire to be in mix he often isn't close enough. He has to get other healers from out of keyword. 

The crew can be surprisingly shcemey as well. VonShtook, Anna, and the Undergraduates can turn Corpse or Scrap into scheme markers from a distance. As long as VonSchtook is alive, anytime a transmortis model kills an enemy they can drop a scheme marker. 

The Undergraduates can By Your Side to anywhere on the table to a non-minion transmortis model (VonShtook, Anna, Val, and the totem). They get a free attack when they place too, so they can help finish off a model if someone else doesn't quite do it. It does cost a card and if they do it every turn that really hurts their hand.

 Studied Opponent - sometimes its worth cheating in a low card, even if you are losing a duel, if it means that they don't get to draw a card. 

[NoisyAssassin]

There's a Von Schtook player at our club that has never lost a game with them. I've played them twice, and my goals for those games were: don't let him score the full 8 points + score at least 2 points myself. I haven't achieved both goals at the same time. T1 you'll be looking at Valedictorian getting loaded up with buffs + an upgrade that lets her summon a model when she kills an enemy. Going late in the turn she can easily jump across the board and KO a minion or enforcer without any trouble, adding a new model to her crew (which can also act that turn). They also have access to Necropunks (either hiring or summoning) that are amazing scheme runners with Leap, so Breakthrough, Outflank, Harness, or Search should all be easy schemes for your opponent. 

The big advantage you'll have is that the crew relies on a brutally effective combo of Armor + Hard to Wound on almost every model, so the ping damage from Misery should be very effective against them. But as mentioned, they have some good condition removal, and Von Schtook himself is immune to Stunned, so don't expect to keep them fully locked down using conditions. 

[nomoredroids]

Speak of the devil!

Because of Ressers' low stats, and Transmortis's pretty low damage output, using Fears Given Form is going to be a better use of Pandora's AP, and stripping Fast from the Transmortis beaters, and the Focused VS hands out, will be  pretty good, too. Keeping cards out of Transmortis's hand is pretty tough, but if you can make it happen, it's easier to cheat in for Df flips, which will keep your models alive and prevents summons. Watch out for Injury coming from Von Schtook, and expect to see either the Carrion Emissary or Asura Roten. Tie down Von Schtook to limit his options. 

Don't be reckless with your models, because Transmortis can hit you hard from far away, and the last thing you want is to lose an 8SS model because you ran up the field with it, only to have it suddenly replaced with a Student of Viscera. Be especially careful with your Sorrows, and especially on turn 1, because they're pretty easy to bring down and Transmortis can summon in Necropunks when they do. 

[MajorUndead]

2 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

Remember that almost every Transmortis model can hand out Stunned, so they will be using it often. If you have someone you need triggers to get the best out of, you might want to keep a high card to try and avoid the inevitable Lecture Notes attack. It's not great to have your Master Stunned for the turn. Condition removal would be good if you have any to bring.

How could I forget to mention stun? I feel silly about that 😄

 

[Ogid]

Pandora has a very powerful anti-condition playstile, she should be fine versus him in that particular front. Low cost models like Lyssa or the Poltergeist (which are also bellow the summoning SS cost for transmortis) may attack friendly models to remove stun from them (with Oportunistic), another option for the crew is Pandora with Eldritch Magic as a condition removal machine both ofensively and defensively.

A cheap model to consider would be a Changeling, it is bellow the summoning SS cost, and is able to give suits to Pandora. Delay trigger in self-loathing may be very good versus him. Pandora may remove fast with Oportunistic and give slow with the suit, removing 2 AP from several models in his activation. As Lyssas are legit in this one, Wrath could also be a good addition for the crew. The Emissary could be also a good pick, very tanky and able to add ping damage with hungry land markers

I said it in the other thread, but I'd avoid any killable model within 5-8SS. So no Sorrows, Aversions,  Iggy or Kade. Either cheap models like Lyssas/Dolls or powerhouses like the Carver and Candy with a healthy cache to keep them in the table and IR in vulnerable models to keep them alive. Giving away easy summons versus him, even only Undergratuates or Necropunks, may start to pile up and overwhelm Pandora quickly imo.

[Regelridderen]

So no real weaknesses in the VS crew. Nothing to exploit? 

[Ogid]

Transmortis has few weaknesses, but the anti-condition play hurts him. Their models rely a lot in fast and focused to deal damage; woe is able to control that while also gaining to duels. Also Mood swings may force a model to activate before is buffed or before Schtook may remove the nasty conditions from Pandora's crew and Carver may remove Focused and get min 4 damage which is good versus H2W+Armor (and he also has Ruthless!). All that plus making hard for him the summoning should be enough.

In a direct clash Pandora has tools to make him sweat, but Schtook outmaneouver Pandora hard; not sure how you can deal with Necropunks scheming in your backyard without Sorrows and Iggy... maybe Luring them with Lyssas into the bubble? Also as Woe may hug each other sometimes, be careful with Anna exploding Zombies.

The problem is his summoning mechanic and anti-armor restricts the models that are safe to play versus him... Teddy with IR could be good (even if killable when focused heavily), but Kade is a big no-no in this game; Teddy can still be included, but with the SS tax. A Rougarou may hit for 6 damage with Focused + Puncture or Flay (and a Doppleganger could copy that); but those are killable 8SS model even with IR, a big no-no versus him. BBS could be great for the Focused pulse, but again a killable 6SS model so not wise. The rider is another solid model, but Including him versus so many stuns may be risky. Hinamatsu spamming attacks/getting Armor piercing triggers may be a good model, but she is vulnerable to Analyze Weakness (and so many attack may also give him card draw...), maybe with IR she could perform well...

Posible ofensive models are Wrath with Focused stonning for Puncture may get 4 or 5 damage consistently, so he with IR may be a safer bet if you want to have something aside from carver to bruteforce the armor + H2W. Another posible OOK pick could be Killjoy, he doesn't die, just get buried and min 3 damage with a posible Onslaught trigger is also good. Serena having Twist Reality, a heal, Eternal and condition removal may also be a good pick.

It doesn't looks easy, specially in that pool with so many movement schemes; but Pandora seems to be able to handle his agresion and tricks... 1 Lyssa with AP for the card draw and initiative may pay off. You can't outrun him, need your synergies and Lyssas/dolls aren't reliable scheme runners so I'd say go for Harness + Ruins and control Idol placement with few models and 2 APs (and with a crew not vulnerable to his alpha strike). You'll give up most of the map and make easy for him to score some schemes, but if you get most idols, full harness and at least 1 point of search the ruins you should be able to get ahead in points and force him to fight you.

Good luck!

[Paddywhack]

7 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Their models rely a lot in fast and focused to deal damage

I'd say that's true for most crews this edition  , but yes, their moderate damage spikes high. 

While Necropunks are still very mobile, they are nowhere near as difficult to kill as they used to be. No Hard to Kill and no self-heal, along with a DF/WP of 4. Armor +1 helps, but you can kill them pretty easy if you want to. 

[Graf]

2 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

So no real weaknesses in the VS crew. Nothing to exploit? 

Do you seek for a golden bullet? If so: No, that doesn't exist. Both masters have tools that work well against the other, imho that's a game that comes, even more so than others, down to player skill and details during play. Schtook is an allround master and depending on how your opponent plays him, you'll have to react differently. Idols at least is his worst strategy. The schemes are juicy for him though. Transmortis often can drop scheme markers "along the way" while they do other stuff, so imho you'll need Iggy for anti-scheming. Pandora's anti-condition and anti-trigger game is essential against him, as @Ogid already said. Transmortis' damage track is only middle of the road, without fast/focused and triggers it's nothing to write home about. While Schtook certainly is no Molly, he can draw quite a few cards each turn, so Woe won't be at its best in terms of hand pressure. Not much you can do about that, just try not to disperse your duels with them over many activations if you can. Also spread your models out as far as it's sensible for you, Transmortis loves bubbling crews. Everything else has already been said as far as I can see.

[Regelridderen]

Game ended now, thanks for all your responses.

It was a tight loss 4 - 6. Shtook took 3 idol points, 1 from Ley Lines and two from Breakthrough.  Pandora took 2 Idol points, 2 from Outflank and 0 from Breakthrough.

A good tight game. 

[ShinChan]

I've read all the thread, thanks for the insights! I actually have Von Shtook, but he's still in my To-Do for assembly. I'll be facing him with Wong (Bayou), in Plant Explosives.

Should I avoid bringing "pseudo-squishy" enforcers like Burt Jebsen, even tho I think he's great for dropping some explosives in favour of more sturdy models (like Alphonse, the henchman).

I was considering bringing Swine-Cursed, since they can do irreducible damage to go through that annoying armor, but I'm not sure how would work the summoning from VS upgrades with the Demise ability. I'm also worried about if their Wp 4 is going to be a problem.

I'll avoid Taxidermists, since their had cost and low Df would make them a juicy target to become a new student for VS.

Any other hints/advice? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

18 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

 

I was considering bringing Swine-Cursed, since they can do irreducible damage to go through that annoying armor, but I'm not sure how would work the summoning from VS upgrades with the Demise ability. I'm also worried about if their Wp 4 is going to be a problem.

I haven't got my rules on me, but page 34 of the digital rules will help with this.

Since it is a summon (and not a replace), the kill happens. Therefore both summons should occur, and timing will be based on the simultaneous effects.

The main willpower attacks are stuns + triggers, so should be fine (though note valedictorian basically gets a free "on your heels" trigger, I don't think you can stop that anyway).