Gaining Grounds and Nellie

[CustardBomb]

Hi all! Was hoping to get the forums take on the interaction between the new Plant Explosives condition where you cant place an explosive on your own side of the board. 

 

The confusion comes from the fact that Nellie's aura makes the enemy model friendly. Does this also change whoch side of the board that model considers friendly? 

[Ludvig]

I believe so but I've seen some discussion on the model being considered friendly to both sides. I've always assumed you are only friendly to one side at a time. 

[Scoffer]

46 minutes ago, CustardBomb said:

Hi all! Was hoping to get the forums take on the interaction between the new Plant Explosives condition where you cant place an explosive on your own side of the board. 

 

The confusion comes from the fact that Nellie's aura makes the enemy model friendly. Does this also change whoch side of the board that model considers friendly? 

According to the Rulebook (p.41 digital), table parts are friendly/enemy to the player. Model doesn't leave your Crew and still belongs to you, so I think nothing changes for your model, when it is treated as friendly by Nellie.

[Myyrä]

1 hour ago, Scoffer said:

According to the Rulebook (p.41 digital), table parts are friendly/enemy to the player. Model doesn't leave your Crew and still belongs to you, so I think nothing changes for your model, when it is treated as friendly by Nellie.

As far as dropping explosives is concerned, this is correct.

[Ludvig]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:46 AM, Scoffer said:

According to the Rulebook (p.41 digital), table parts are friendly/enemy to the player. Model doesn't leave your Crew and still belongs to you, so I think nothing changes for your model, when it is treated as friendly by Nellie.

The ability says the model "is treated as a friendly model" during the interact and a model friendly to Nellie would consider the opponents half legit to drop a bomb on.

Page 26 defines friendly enemy and control and clarifies that a friendly model is a model that was hired into your crew. Nellie should be able to make an enemy drop their bombs on their own table half because while within 2" of her and taking an interact they are considered hired by Nellie. That's what being friendly to her means. 

If they can't drop bombs on their own half because they are still considered as enemy then why would they be dropping a scheme marker belonging to Nellie's crew in a normal interact? They'd just drop a marker for the crew that hired them. 

[Myyrä]

2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

If they can't drop bombs on their own half because they are still considered as enemy then why would they be dropping a scheme marker belonging to Nellie's crew in a normal interact? They'd just drop a marker for the crew that hired them. 

Because

Quote

When a model Drops a Marker, it is friendly to the Crew controlling the model that Dropped it.

If the model could drop the strategy marker it would be friendly to Nellie. But alas, the model is not on the enemy table half, so it isn't permitted to drop a marker at all.

[Dark Reaper]

Tbh, at this point they should just remove the clause about counting as a friendly model. It doesn't seems to help us in any way according to some , and is instead actually detrimental to our own crew.

[Ludvig]

I'm hoping for an faq that clarifies you only count as friendly to one crew at a time. It seems really awkward to be friendly to both. In what situations does Nellie's aura actually do anything?

[Myyrä]

9 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I'm hoping for an faq that clarifies you only count as friendly to one crew at a time. It seems really awkward to be friendly to both. In what situations does Nellie's aura actually do anything?

Yeah, I don't like her design either.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

I'm hoping for an faq that clarifies you only count as friendly to one crew at a time. It seems really awkward to be friendly to both. In what situations does Nellie's aura actually do anything?

Only thing I can figure out so far is:

• Turns off a whole bunch of “enemy model dropped a marker” abilities
• Turns off the other reporter abilities
• You can do Deliver a Message (probably)
• It might be a way to get a friendly Scheme Marker on your own table half (if you’re going to have someone else Interact to pick it back up), if you’re crazy (or trying to do Malifaux pacifist mode or something).

It was a last few weeks open beta change, the bit about treating the model as friendly isn’t something weird like a relic of a previous rulebook interaction.  :shrug: 

[Flippin' Wyrd Matt]

I am currently looking into the interactions between these abilities personally to find where i land on the how i personally see the rules playing out, with the whole aspect of abilities on cards take precedent over rule book. so will post my insights on that i am sure at some point 😂

But for now i can parrot what is being said here i do think with current wordings and rulings on Nellies abilities there needs to be a tweak to her card, maybe remove the Friendly part of the interact and that will let in run smoother or just a slight refinement and FAQ to give us a hard ruling on it. 

[Yore Huckleberry]

2 hours ago, Flippin' Wyrd Matt said:

I am currently looking into the interactions between these abilities personally to find where i land on the how i personally see the rules playing out, with the whole aspect of abilities on cards take precedent over rule book. so will post my insights on that i am sure at some point 😂

But for now i can parrot what is being said here i do think with current wordings and rulings on Nellies abilities there needs to be a tweak to her card, maybe remove the Friendly part of the interact and that will let in run smoother or just a slight refinement and FAQ to give us a hard ruling on it. 

I think the most prevalent effect of the model counting as friendly is that it doesn't proc the crew's auto-focus ability. So you get the (fairly significant) benefit of placing a scheme marker, but you don't also get all of the focus and the card draw off of Nellie.

The interaction with the current strat pool is its own thing.

And I suspect the errata we eventually get on Nellie is actually something that fixes Deliver a Message, because as-is you can't take the reveal action against her, which is a pretty strong effect that I'm not sure they intended. (The second half is scoreable against her but requires hijinks like pulling  her where you have a marker already, or shoving one into place with like Angelica Durant or a Guild Sergeant or something).

[Ludvig]

If the model counts as both friendly an enemy at the same time wouldn't you be able to use all the enemy scheme buffs? That is the same rationale as why it can't drop a bomb in its own half? 

[Irishwristwatch]

Having Nellie's ability treat enemy as friendly models also helps in some schemes as well, like Detonate Charges or Dig Their Graves, but that's just Imo.

[Ludvig]

3 hours ago, Irishwristwatch said:

Having Nellie's ability treat enemy as friendly models also helps in some schemes as well, like Detonate Charges or Dig Their Graves, but that's just Imo.

How does treating them as friendly help with those? She would still be controlling their interacts and getting scheme markers friendly to her. 

[Myyrä]

4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

How does treating them as friendly help with those? She would still be controlling their interacts and getting scheme markers friendly to her. 

It let's them interact when engaged by Nellie's friends.

[Ludvig]

14 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

It let's them interact when engaged by Nellie's friends.

If they're taking the interact I'm fairly sure they were allowed to interact already. The journalist triggers specify it's allowed while engaged.

[Irishwristwatch]

5 hours ago, Ludvig said:

How does treating them as friendly help with those? She would still be controlling their interacts and getting scheme markers friendly to her. 

The difficulty I have with those schemes is positioning schemes near models, especially with Detonate Charges and not being able to take place scheme markers within 4" while interacting. I find it means Nellie, when sitting near a scrum, can effectively extend placing schemes by a few inches when there's a few enemy models in the same place.. Of course that's only an observation from a few games.

[Qracy]

Their ability to control enemy interact is also defensivly useful, because when you have planted an explosive, no enemy can pick it up again as long as the marker ist completly within 2" of Nellie / Field reporter etc .

Also you can deny Corrupted Idols the same way. Either push the Idol onto the enemy's table half, or just leave it where it is (if you have already pushed it).
Sadly you have to take the damage due to GG Season Zero.

 

But in general, I also think that Nellie and her Crew need a little bit tweaking, so that everything synergieses a little bit better.
And an FAQ for the unclear points.

[Ludvig]

@Qracy

The enemy can still pick a bomb marker up if they are near but not in btb with a scheme marker friendly to Nellie since the only allowed interact would be to pick the bomb up. Even if you control what the interact does it needs to be a legal interact action. You can't place bombs on your own half but you can pick them up anywhere. 

[le_wahou]

4 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@Qracy

The enemy can still pick a bomb marker up if they are near but not in btb with a scheme marker friendly to Nellie since the only allowed interact would be to pick the bomb up. Even if you control what the interact does it needs to be a legal interact action. You can't place bombs on your own half but you can pick them up anywhere. 

You can always choose to remove schemes in base contact, even if there are no schemes in base contact.

[Ludvig]

24 minutes ago, le_wahou said:

You can always choose to remove schemes in base contact, even if there are no schemes in base contact.

That seems iffy to me but I guess it's a legal interaction. Guess I have an errata suggestion. 😅 

[Yore Huckleberry]

45 minutes ago, le_wahou said:

You can always choose to remove schemes in base contact, even if there are no schemes in base contact.

I think it winds up working out. Remember that the "Chasing a Story" trigger across the keyword is simply "an enemy resolves an interact" rather than "an enemy drops a scheme marker." So even if they decline to drop one of their own markers (or are unable to), they can still decline to pick up their own bomb. If you're using Nellie, you may as well simply "Don't Mind Me" in there to pick it up yourself, though, right?

The place where it might be helpful to soft-force a marker drop is the inter-faction synergy with Barker's crew (whose abilities force dropping ENEMY scheme markers that Barker can summon off of or the Executioner can "Trail of Gore" off of. It might have been nice to give the option of hiring Nellie in to help with those interactions ... though Trail of Gore can still benefit from all her mechanisms for dropping a friendly marker, and an opponent may miss their opportunity and still drop an enemy marker down when you need them to.

 

[Yore Huckleberry]

Also, this thread has got me thinking more about the Journalist crew, and their lack of engagement makes a ton more sense now: they essentially have a 2" super-engagement power vs interacts, but lose the movement and ranged-control capacities of even a 0" or 1" engagement to prevent. I think that's actually a really fun micro-tuning of the crew into its theme.

[le_wahou]

6 minutes ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Also, this thread has got me thinking more about the Journalist crew, and their lack of engagement makes a ton more sense now: they essentially have a 2" super-engagement power vs interacts, but lose the movement and ranged-control capacities of even a 0" or 1" engagement to prevent. I think that's actually a really fun micro-tuning of the crew into its theme.

The weakness of reporters is that ennemy can walk out and interact. An opponent engaged needs a push to get out of engagement without taking the disengage action.