Fetid Strumpet Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Do you own all the options, though? I'm going to use Archie in every ressers list at first, but that is partially so I can just buy core boxes and have a crew to field. Yes I actually do. I don’t know whether to be proud or ashamed. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said: If your crew has no spaces for out of keyword models because of how tightly the synergy is woven, that’s pretty much the only time he wouldn’t have a pretty strong chance of showing up, at least in my opinion. And Jack is the only crew, at least to me, that fits that bill. Thewrathchilde played at a significant tournament (Nova?) And only used Archie 2/5 rounds (and one of those being a Molly round, where you'd expect to see him 100% of the time). I've not heard of any tournaments where everyone comes out of it and thinks Archie is OP. Part of it may be different levels. Archie requires tons of cards to be at full power (sometimes two cards just to leap and flurry). Molly can happily fuel him 2, 3, or sometimes even 4 cards a turn. But if you're taking a model that is that card hungry, experienced players will know when to punish you for weakening your hand. Archie is also ridiculous against unguarded schemers (he is the king of scheme runners after all). But if enemies are protecting their schemes, he suddenly feels a lot weaker. Definitely advise anyone struggling against him to work on their counterplay. Sure with enough evidence maybe we would uncover a need for a nerf. Maybe it'll turn out Toshiro is actually OP and needs a nerf. Maybe someone will break Seamus. Who knows. But I imagine it'll be at least until the next gaining grounds before we see any changes, so for now focusing on counterplay seems good. And also for those unable to buy Archie, there are other good options (except for Molly. No one else can wear the pirate hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Archie is also ridiculous against unguarded schemers (he is the king of scheme runners after all). But if enemies are protecting their schemes, he suddenly feels a lot weaker. Archie can still jump+charge from 12'' away and then attack 3 times with a 3/4/6 damage track and a stat 6; a model protecting schemes have to endure that before retaliating; that attack has a good chance to kill or leave with very few Wds to a lot of models, and few random models (even in the 9 SS range) can kill him so easily. Then in the next activation he'll keep that level of agression while healing probably 4 or 5 from Upgrade + Brain Freeze. 4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Definitely advise anyone struggling against him to work on their counterplay. The problem with the counterplay is the resources are finite, if you allocate 20SS worth of models to deal with Archie, you won't have enough models to deal with Crooligans, Night Terrors or Necropunks scheming all over the place or with whatever nasty stuff the other player brings. The model is very good, maybe a bit too good, but there are a lot of other nasty stuff in this game and other model warping metas around them... I guess while Ressers as a whole are not overperforming right now, he isn't that much of a problem; but it would be better if over time dominant picks (not only him, in all factions) get toned down a bit while also buffing other things to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, Ogid said: The problem with the counterplay is the resources are finite, if you allocate 20SS worth of models to deal with Archie, you won't have enough models to deal with Crooligans, Night Terrors or Necropunks scheming all over the place or with whatever nasty stuff the other player brings. That's a very narrow idea of counterplay, though, where your models line up 1:1 against enemy models. Consider for example this pool I have from an upcoming tournament, where I might be playing Dreamer against Archie (haven't decided yet)... Turf War - Wedge deployment Harness the Ley Line Hold up their Forces Take Prisoner Power Ritual Vendetta As Dreamer, I could... Camp my two turf war markers + the centre turf war marker, gaining a strategy advantage. From there, I could do Hold Up Their Forces, Harness the leyline (one point), Take Prisoner, or Vendetta with ease. I could also deny Power Ritual for their scheme runners, and be in a solid position to deny the other schemes (except hold up their forces and vendetta, which I could punish them heavily for). I could especially take Vendetta with Serena Bowman vs. Archie, making it so my counterplay of him is also worth two points. That's counterplaying Archie with an entire crew, which is how countering is meant to be done. Your crew should work in concert with each other. Quote The model is very good, maybe a bit too good If Archie was too good, I suspect a top tier player like TheWrathChilde would have taken him in more than 40% of his tournament games 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 This is part of why I think people overestimate Archie. If you're trying to accomplish schemes with single models, you're going to have a terrible time. He is the perfect counter to that strategy. But he is not perfect at countering EVERY method of doing schemes and strats. Schemes and strategies are meant to be done by 50ss worth of models working in concert, not 5ss working alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Consider for example this pool I have from an upcoming tournament, where I might be playing Dreamer against Archie The problem is when you face more models in addition to Archie! 9 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: As Dreamer, I could... Camp my two turf war markers + the centre turf war marker, gaining a strategy advantage. From there, I could do Hold Up Their Forces, Harness the leyline (one point), Take Prisoner, or Vendetta with ease. I could also deny Power Ritual for their scheme runners, and be in a solid position to deny the other four schemes (except hold up their forces and vendetta, which I could punish them heavily for). I could especially take Vendetta with Serena Bowman vs. Archie, making it so my counterplay of him is also worth two points. That's counterplaying Archie with an entire crew, which is how countering is meant to be done. Your crew should work in concert with each other. I see your point, but models like Archie give the player a ton of options; a 12'' threat range with huge damage potential is great to: Storming mid, denying you the strategy advantage or jumping ahead to attack the least protected turf marker. Use his mobility to reach and kill the more vulnerable models trying to score any of these schemes, specially isolated ones. Meanwhile the other player has another around 36SS worth of models pressuring you in other areas (being by attacking your models, growing a late game powerhouse like Yan-Lo or by running a lot of cheap schemers) A model with high mobility and damage put the other player in the defensive side; which isn't the best stance to win a game. A model with high damage but low threat range can be played around, a model with high mobility can be chased down; But when that model can threat a big part of the board, and any model trying to chase him will see how he turn around and just kill him; then you have a problem. That problem is even bigger when some of the options to control said models (negative conditions and engaging though models with him are denied by numbskull and leap). We have a RES player (Molly and McMourning) in our meta and Archie feels really good; he is in most Doc's crews btw. However our meta is still unexperienced so I don't want to make judgements based on that. What matter is the faction as a whole, if RES is balanced then we'll just learn to live with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 @Ogid, he is absolutely brutal, no doubt! And it is actually an ~18" threat range, since he can move, leap, charge, flurry for two attacks at 18" 😱 But my example there was to illustrate playing against an entire enemy team. If I'm Dreamer against Ressers (who can field Dead Rider or Archie), I'm probably not going to want to field models like Widow Weaver and Bandersnatch. These fill the same role as Archie, but do it worse, so I will lose that fight. Instead I'll focus on doing what my crew can do better than the enemy (for example) McMourning + Archie crew - in the example above, grab onto enough pieces of the board that the enemy has to come near my beaters to score points. If they're walking towards my beaters, Archie's superior mobility won't matter. My superior survivability and killing power will win the fight. Malifaux really forces you to be able to swap between multiple playstyles, instead of just being good at one. Of course, Dreamer is overpowered as well. Archie can move 12" and take two attacks. Lord Chompy Bits can move 50" and take three attacks 😜 Also, if you get a chance, try playing with Archie and you may see what I mean. His limitations start to become clear when enemies know how to put the pressure on (and that is usually not by attacking Archie directly, but instead carefully controlling the board so Archie has no isolated models he can pick off). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: But my example there was to illustrate playing against an entire enemy team. If I'm Dreamer against Ressers (who can field Dead Rider or Archie), I'm probably not going to want to field models like Widow Weaver and Bandersnatch. These fill the same role as Archie, but do it worse, so I will lose that fight. Instead I'll focus on doing what my crew can do better than the enemy (for example) McMourning + Archie crew - in the example above, grab onto enough pieces of the board that the enemy has to come near my beaters to score points. If they're walking towards my beaters, Archie's superior mobility won't matter. My superior survivability and killing power will win the fight. Malifaux really forces you to be able to swap between multiple playstyles, instead of just being good at one. But that's exactly why he is so strong; in a lot of schemes/strategies you need to split or go deep in the enemy part of the board to score and Archie punish that heavily at a very affordable cost. And on top of that he isn't bad at all in a scrap. Having the mobility to engage from a mile away is a very powerful ofensive ability ("he who hits first hits twice" isn't said for nothing) and his defensive stats are only slightly worse than the Roge Necromancy; which is tough as nails, much less mobile and cost 1 SS more. If the other player times well the attack, he can be devastating; and killing him is a consolation price after he dealed 24 Wds worth of damage and drained a lot of APs. 11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Of course, Dreamer is overpowered as well. Archie can move 12" and take two attacks. Lord Chompy Bits can move 50" and take three attacks 😜 XDD. With the little details that you'd need to put fast in LCB first (which implies a OOK hire that would need to expend his APs and damaging him with the Burnt out trigger and unless you are using double master that ability has 2'' range), expose the dreamer to deliver him deep in the enemy part of the board (needing also to gain an oposed duel and a non built in trigger) and also leave a damaged LCB one enemy activation exposed. Yeah, exactly the same case 11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Also, if you get a chance, try playing with Archie and you may see what I mean. His limitations start to become clear when enemies know how to put the pressure on (and that is usually not by attacking Archie directly, but instead carefully controlling the board so Archie has no isolated models he can pick off). This is good advice. I'll try to swap crews at some point to practice with him. But I recognize a top notch model when I see it. Utility pieces aside, the rest usually pick 2 out of 3 from mobility, offensive power and toughness. And Archie kind of break that mold. Mobility (or range) + Ofensive: Glass cannon / Shooter Mobility + Toughness: Schemer / mobile tarpit Ofensive + Toughness: Ludicrous beater / Area denial piece Ofensive + Toughness + Mobility: Highly impact piece that is expected to be a leader or similar costed model, or at least need other models expending his APs to enable him to perform well / have some clear and exploitable weaknesses. But as I said before, top picks will always exist; I don't mind Archie being one as long as the faction is balanced; but this model is nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Haha, if you think Archie is tough, try taking him against Nekima. He melts like butter 😅His mobility and defense 4 doesn't really stand up to nephilim or Nekima hunting him down. Hell, even 3 daydreams attacking him can take him down. He is mobile, but he can't afford to sit still. He generally has to be the last to activate to get into combat, and amongst the first to activate to get out of combat. I think he is definitely top tier, but overhyped. There's some stuff he is nuts at, but some stuff he is quite bad at. You're right he is much better than Rogue Necromancy (outside of its ranged attack), but that's more due to RN being a bit meh IMO. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 41 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Haha, if you think Archie is tough, try taking him against Nekima. He melts like butter 😅His mobility and defense 4 doesn't really stand up to nephilim or Nekima hunting him down. Nephilims are probably a good match for him. BB destroys dedicated mele beaters like him, at least Matures with Combat Finesse will stand their ground, with Fly with me they can chase him and Nekima hits like a truck. Funny thing is, Nekima is squisier than Archie versus Df based attacks without burning SS keeping her alive, and her threat range without expending APs is 8'', not 12'' XDD. 41 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Hell, even 3 daydreams attacking him can take him down. He is mobile, but he can't afford to sit still. He generally has to be the last to activate to get into combat, and amongst the first to activate to get out of combat. Even if those little things are quite useful, I wouldn't recommend anyone to try to kill Archie with them... Archie can kill 1 daydream per attack easily; and with only stat 4 attack versus H2W it's unlikely that many attacks deal more than min damage (a mighty 1); but before they need to pass a Terrifying 12 duel with their Wp of 4... with some luck those 3 models would deal 5 damage to him in total after 6 attacks... and I'm being generous (without a Severe hit which is hard, it won't be more than 2 or 3 damage). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trample Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: where I might be playing Dreamer against Archie (haven't decided yet)... Dreamer is actually a pretty solid play against a Forgotten crew or anything with Archie in it. The Dreamer can throw roadblocks at Archie better than anyone and if you park him (The Dreamer that is) a few inches away you eliminate Archie's leap. A couple of Darydreams can hold him up in that case. And, oddly enough, so can the Dreamer himself. Serene Countenance shuts down a model who can't focus. The other thing that brings Archie to a standstill is Armor +2. Since he can't focus he's going to be hitting for 1 damage all day long. Not all crews can bring this to the table of course, but the Dreamer can bring Hinimatsu, who matches us very well with Archie. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 Good points @Trample. Not being able to Focus make Armor and to duels more effective versus him. However prevent his escape it's not that easy; he can jump even if engaged and 6'' is big enough to find a place to jump non engaged. Putting a Daydream in his way will only make him charge to move and remove the little pest from his way at the same time (poor things... why everyone want to put them in Archie's way?) About Hinamatsu: her damage track isn't that high (2/3/4) and she relies in spamming attacks thanks to the Onslaught trigger and Flurry versus H2W... something that Terrifying makes very taxing; leap get around her Wicked and Numbskull makes her distracted a non-factor. She can still kill him, but it's not that easy in 1 activation unless you want to expend a ton of resources cheating terrifying, stonning onslaught and using Focused+1 from other turns. Archie has the tools to get around her tricks and go for other models she is trying to protect much better than other models. However, it's a very good suggestion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trample Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 37 minutes ago, Ogid said: However prevent his escape it's not that easy; he can jump even if engaged and 6'' is big enough to find a place to jump non engaged. Putting a Daydream in his way will only make him charge to move and remove the little pest from his way at the same time (poor things... why everyone want to put them in Archie's way?) Not with The Dreamer around. He shuts down actions within 4". The Dreamer needs to be nearby to make that happen, but if he is within 4" Archie is locked. After the first time that happened to me against a Nightmare crew I started keeping Archie as far from The Dreamer as I could! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saduhem Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 17 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said: What is great about Archie is he is just pure value. It’s a beater and scheme runner that excels at both Archie had never excelled as a beater for me. Judging from podcasts from the top competitive players, Archie is usually running schemes and tying up pieces. I have yet to see in my Meta, or hear from the pros, about a game in which Archie is wrecking the board. If anything the advice is usually "Don't put him against a beater". I also had him get murdered by stat 4 daydreams. He's good, but not something I'll have in every crew, and only 1-2 keywords unless I'm against a condition heavy crew. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 To recap some of the evidence Archie isn't OP: Top player(s) have plenty of Resser games where he isn't fielded. Plenty of counterexamples of crews he doesn't shine against... Resource-hungry - he takes tons of cards to use effectively, which is a very real cost for your crew. You can't even mitigate that by giving him focus. Don't get me wrong, he is a great model. But he is hardly being used by every crew. Things he is irreplaceable for: Stomps condition-based crews. Carries small children in his pockets (crooligans). Molly takes him every time. Has access to both a pirate hat AND an ice cream cone. Seriously, wtf. Who thought it okay to give him the sweetest accessories in faction? (Jokes) For schemes, there are better options for many pools. For beaters, there are better options. For some scheme pools, he is the king of schemes. But that is okay. He has games where he is a great choice, and games where he isn't. I also suspect the new gaining grounds will make new strategies that he isn't as good at. The top models will shift with the objectives whenever they change them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saduhem Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said: To recap some of the evidence Archie isn't OP: Top player(s) have plenty of Resser games where he isn't fielded. Plenty of counterexamples of crews he doesn't shine against... Resource-hungry - he takes tons of cards to use effectively, which is a very real cost for your crew. You can't even mitigate that by giving him focus. Don't get me wrong, he is a great model. But he is hardly being used by every crew. Things he is irreplaceable for: Stomps condition-based crews. Carries small children in his pockets (crooligans). Molly takes him every time. Has access to both a pirate hat AND an ice cream cone. Seriously, wtf. Who thought it okay to give him the sweetest accessories in faction? (Jokes) For schemes, there are better options for many pools. For beaters, there are better options. For some scheme pools, he is the king of schemes. But that is okay. He has games where he is a great choice, and games where he isn't. I also suspect the new gaining grounds will make new strategies that he isn't as good at. The top models will shift with the objectives whenever they change them. He's also terrible against armor and cannot overcome serene countenance. I love playing Archie but I really struggle to see his role as an atomic bomb. He's a mobile model that packs a punch but isn't great under any form of sustained fire and has a couple of heavy counters. Excels within keyword due to synergy, can run a flank for 10 stones in other crews. Sounds pretty balanced to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Saduhem said: He's also terrible against armor and cannot overcome serene countenance. Haha, I forget about armour because Molly eats armour for breakfast. But this is another great point. There are some models he simply can't break, a critical failing in a beater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 A few more posts and I see you guys asking for buffs 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Nope, asking for a 2ss increase myself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saduhem Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Ogid said: A few more posts and I see you guys asking for buffs I don't think anyone would argue he needs to be better, just that he isn't shaking the foundations of Malifaux for 9 stones (Or 10 OOK). Put him against most other beaters and he'll have to inevitably leap away if he hasn't already activated. Most of the time he's doing the same job as the Midnight Stalker at +2 stones OOK. Of course he gets a higher damage track and numbskull, but he's also not fast every round and doesn't have demise and you're paying more. He's definitely never going to want to get remotely close to things like Dreamer, Colette, Hinamatsu, or the Peacekeeper. He'll just fold. He also doesn't want to see Mah Ticket with the barrage of tiny focused shots. Against Zoraida leave him in the box. He's got a page worth of text on the front of his card, but when you look at the function he actually serves on the table, he's not doing anything extraordinary for his point cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marke83 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 People confuse "op" with "can't be dealt with". However, I don't know about that 2ss increase. It won't change the power level on the field, and Archie really has too many good abilities piled on against certain type of crews. Removing mask from leap's casting could be enough as someone already suggested. It's still a substantial nerf, maybe even too harsh for an enforcer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsun Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, marke83 said: People confuse "op" with "can't be dealt with". However, I don't know about that 2ss increase. It won't change the power level on the field, and Archie really has too many good abilities piled on against certain type of crews. Removing mask from leap's casting could be enough as someone already suggested. It's still a substantial nerf, maybe even too harsh for an enforcer. He would need a reliable bonus other than leap if he loses the built in mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, marke83 said: People confuse "op" with "can't be dealt with". I think the biggest argument we're using for him not being OP is that he is not showing up at the level an OP model would (he isn't being taken in every crew/scenario, except in keyword for Molly). 34 minutes ago, marke83 said: Removing mask from leap's casting could be enough as someone already suggested. It's still a substantial nerf, maybe even too harsh for an enforcer. Haha, that was me. It was an example of something that feels odd, but I'm not sure it'd be a good change. Fiddling with his leap (removing mask, dropping it down to stat 4 base or stat 3) could all be things that would make him FEEL more reasonable, but I think he is reasonable at a competitive level already, and removing the mask would almost certainly signficantly affect his viability as a competitive model. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Saduhem said: I don't think anyone would argue he needs to be better, just that he isn't shaking the foundations of Malifaux for 9 stones (Or 10 OOK). Put him against most other beaters and he'll have to inevitably leap away if he hasn't already activated. Most of the time he's doing the same job as the Midnight Stalker at +2 stones OOK. Of course he gets a higher damage track and numbskull, but he's also not fast every round and doesn't have demise and you're paying more. He's definitely never going to want to get remotely close to things like Dreamer, Colette, Hinamatsu, or the Peacekeeper. He'll just fold. He also doesn't want to see Mah Ticket with the barrage of tiny focused shots. Against Zoraida leave him in the box. He's got a page worth of text on the front of his card, but when you look at the function he actually serves on the table, he's not doing anything extraordinary for his point cost. I don't agree on this; he is a very efficient model. A model isn't good for having some weaknessess, it's good for pulling more than his weight when not played into a team full of counters. And even if he is countered, he doesn't become a paperweight like other models; he can always go around engaging models or scoring. Also he is being pictured as some kind of glass cannon... the dude is sturdy as hell. Df4 is a hindarance, no doubt; but 11 Wds, H2W, Terrifying 12, mobility and a heal isn't easy to deal with, and unless you are playing into one of the factions with Ruthless in their upgrades; the rest of the factions won't have that many answers to that. Of course he can't just jump in the middle of the enemy team at the start of a turn and expect to come out alive... but who can do that anyway? Hinamatsu for example, in the case Archie ends at charge range of her (8''). She could kill him in 1 activation, but that comes at a price: She will need 3 stones for the Onslaught trigger, 3 cards to cheat the failed Terrifying duels and 1 extra card to pay for Flurry. That leave her with few room for the actual flips. She has a free ,so she should flip consistently enough, but if 1 or 2 flips aren't his way, she will expend a ton of resources not killing him. She doesn't have puncture or any to damage, that means she will need a difference in the duel of 11+ to not being at when flipping for damage. Can be killed? Yes, but doing that at the start of a turn opens the whole crew for retaliation because that player will have no cache or hand for the rest of the turn; at the end of the turn I doubt the player would have the resources needed to kill him in 1 activation. Fail to kill him and the other player can pull off a heal, acomplice, attack, flurry, jump and move to heal him a around 6-8 (depending on if he has the regen upgrade or not) and even put him 11'' from the danger. Meanwhile Archie has, Jump, Ruthless and Numbskull; ignoring the defenses or ways to keep him controled of a good percentage of the rooster, plus the mobility and damage to threat and kill exposed models or scheme. And while it's true Armor can be a problem, he still have a stat of 6 and a maximum damage of 6; he can't guarantee a good hit like other models can with Focused, but he can fish a good hit versus low defense armored guys; if he cheat last he can always cheat to get a difference in the duel high enough to flip/cheat maximum damage. Plus Ressers has access to Analyze Weaknessess, he can tear appart any model with that debuff. The Serene countereance point is a very good one, but we are talking about an ability that is in 1 (Bayou, Neverborn, Outcast), 2 (Arcanist, Ressers, TT) or 3 (Guild) models per faction. He can't get fast, but Flurry is a poor's man fast costing a card... which heals him lol. The model is pure eficiency for his team and a resource sink for the other team; and he has to be dealt with if he is played agressive or he will just jump and pick off important supports/squishy beaters for the player because there is no way to control him. If a player wants him in check, that player has to go through his 11 Wds, H2W, Terrifying 12 all the way to 0 Wds or risk to see how he jumps away or just go in a final rampage through his models. But as I said before, everyone should have his cool toys; but let's not deny he is a very very good toy. Does he need a nerf? He feels too good, but I don't know if he really deserves it; it depends on how is RES performing, the real pickrate of the model and how he is doing in competitive; data I don't have. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannydb Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 In my opinion archie and rouge necro should just switch points costs and be done with in. As said I think the issue with partly archie is good for all 4 stratergies and as said this might change come next gaining grounds I think the issue I have with him is mansos upgrade combing with him but is more an issue with manos reliquary At end of day archie struggles vs armour and can't get round serene counterance at all or any other ways that put him on negatives Added to that that other than the corpse tossing attack he doesn't support any crews other than molly and the crooligans bys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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