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Is Archie the bees knees?


Ludvig

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Manos is a good model, but not better than Archie in the beating department:

  • Manos: 2/3/4 2'' with stat 6 (3/4/5 using the Siphon Power) or a :ranged12'' with stat 5.
  • Archie: 3/4/6 1'' with stat 6 (and a very situational spell). He has also Flurry and Ruthless.

And in the defensive skills, Manos have Regen, but Archie have a lot of abilities:

  • Manos: 5/6, Regen+2, Extended Reach (but as he doesn't have a built in trigger in leap, he usually have to deal 1 damage to himself).
  • Archie: 4/4 Terrifying(12), H2W, Numbskull, Fading(BF) (Numbskull is both an advantage and a dissadvantage, no Focused but no Stunned or Slow either)

The damage track is simmilar, Manos can perform focused attacks, but Archie have 1 extra attack per turn (which will also heal him).

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I play Molly so he is extra good for me, but...

He IS fantastic. Largely this is due to his mobility (leap without needing a mask, unlike Manos?)

But he is also overhyped. He is very susceptible to counter charges and dying. He is the king of scheme runners, but struggles with big fights where he is taking big hits.

I'd definitely recommend him as a purchase for any Resser player once he is available.

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Re: tournament results.

They also have some VERY powerful masters and models. They're a very versatile faction that can take on any scenario.

They have some big weaknesses (Shenlong, ruthless, ignore demise?), but if people aren't packing the hate options against ressers, it is no wonder they're doing well.

Ressers also have some extremely strong counter picks (Molly + Archie destroy any condition or marker based crew).

So while Archie is part of their strength, I wouldn't count out Kirai, Dead Rider, McMourning, etc.

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15 minutes ago, Sybarite said:

Top tier and over-powered are the same thing. 

In my circles (MTG background), top tier usually means "top tier of balanced play." God tier or S tier mean "overpowered, format warping, or needing a ban/errata."

So that is what I meant. Archie is amongst the best in the faction, but that doesn't mean he needs a nerf. Though of course a year from now, with enough tournament data, maybe he will need one.

My main point though is people shouldn't feel hamstrung if they can't buy Archie ATM. He is strong, but so are lots of other options.

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18 minutes ago, Sybarite said:

A cool thing with Archie is that they heal when accomplicing. Healing with effigy or Ponto and then healing again on accomplice and then again on flurry can be really sweet if youre low on HP but managed to stray Alive. 

This and any other discard effects are great heals. It is hilarious when your opponent makes you discard a card and you actually wanted to for the heal.

I rarely get accomplice off on him though. I send him ranging far away from my crew a lot of the time. Maybe I need to tighten up my play xD

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I only have some McMourning stuff since last edition but ended up with a couple of random models like Archie and the emissary that I haven't built yet. 

Archie doesn't have poison interactions but seems to compare really well to the emissary and rogue necromancy since he has more mobility and flurry. Switching Rafkin or Sebastian to Archie also seems worth it for all the extra oomph. I'm having a bit of trouble deciding what to build first to get into the new McMourning. 

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My big problem with Archie (as a victim) is the Leap.

When it was Hulkinn Leap, or whatever the size-appropriate shorter distance was called, he was just mobile.

With the full six inches he is egregiously hard to manage - twenty-some inches of non-linear threat with two min3 attacks and immune to controlling conditions, H2W and easy heals, and escort for scheme runners/deniers is a real bummer to play against.

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4 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

My big problem with Archie (as a victim) is the Leap.

When it was Hulkinn Leap, or whatever the size-appropriate shorter distance was called, he was just mobile.

With the full six inches he is egregiously hard to manage - twenty-some inches of non-linear threat with two min3 attacks and immune to controlling conditions, H2W and easy heals, and escort for scheme runners/deniers is a real bummer to play against.

I agree. He would be at a much lower power level if they even took off the built in mask on his leap.

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On 10/16/2019 at 4:08 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

He IS fantastic. Largely this is due to his mobility (leap without needing a mask, unlike Manos?)

with Siphon Power Manos essentially has the built in suit. It also gives you the flexibility to be able to hit the Sudden Strike trigger as long as you have either of the suits as you can Siphon for the other. 

On 10/16/2019 at 4:08 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

But he is also overhyped. He is very susceptible to counter charges and dying. He is the king of scheme runners, but struggles with big fights where he is taking big hits.

Agree

15 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I agree. He would be at a much lower power level if they even took off the built in mask on his leap.

Please don’t give them ideas. No self castration this early in M3E.,..... way to early to make the argument that he needs to be changed. 

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5 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

Please don’t give them ideas. No self castration this early in M3E.,..... way to early to make the argument that he needs to be changed. 

Haha, my usual take on this is that this sort of stuff is fine for beta changes, but we're in official game now. It'd be pretty shit of them to make a change like this (removing the mask) via an errata without loads of tournament evidence. It would significantly nerf Molly's crew as a whole, since Archie is a key delivery vector for crooligans, and he can't stone for the leap. I think he is definitely overhyped and not a problem compared to other stuff I have fielded. He is a bit like stitched together - he feels overpowered, but he isn't even the strongest thing we field.

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1 hour ago, thewrathchilde said:

Please don’t give them ideas. No self castration this early in M3E.,..... way to early to make the argument that he needs to be changed. 

if everyone in the community uses him with any master because he's on par/stronger than every other choices there is something off for sure! I know it's really early in M3e but if the trend continue for ressers of everyone fielding Archie in every game he will get nerf for sure! Or they will up the cost for OOK models and I wouldn't mind this approach because I dislike a lot the competitive list n M2e where everyone was fielding the same things! A +2-3 ss tax would maybe prevent every masters taking him OOK without the need to nerf him directly? what do you think?

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