Witchling Thrall Thoughts

[Ender101]

Being newly returned to the game, and having worked a good chunk of last week on some thrall conversions (visible in the modeling forum, can link here if requested), I've been giving a lot of thought to the Witch Hunters, and the Thralls in particular.

My first thought is that the Thralls are pretty neat. A reasonable amount of health, hard to wound, baked in stats on both Defense and their main Attack, added with Ruthless gives them a really solid freight train of a punch. And if the opponent does kill them in melee, break out the smores. 

Their ranged action is also pretty neat, a Mv 13 duel is not insurmountable by any means, but most models will need an 8 or 9, so can really punish anyone who has grouped up. It isn't a lot of damage, but it can add up pretty quick (and the triggers ain't bad).

While they can heal themselves, it feels counter intuitive to the goals of their Master, Madam Criid.

I'm heavily considering starting with one on the field and giving it the 'No Prisoners' upgrade. More healing, Run and Gun, and Clockwork Grenade as a bonus action to really force those Mv duels and get out more chip damage. I feel like this would allow it to contribute more over the course of the game, but bumps it up to a 10 stone model.

But considering a nearby handler can bump it up to Mv 7 or push it 4 inches up, it seems like a fantastic missile. He's practically cavalry at that point.

So am I crazy (well obviously, but 'crazy' crazy)? 

[Cursed25]

Yeah! I was considering the same thing with the No Prisonner upgrade! If you try it tell us how it went?

[theamazingmrg]

I like the Thrall, but I'd never pay for two in my starting list. He also relies a little on being surrounded by Burning models so that he can heal himself and survive a bit longer, but he can certainly do some work!!

[NoahScape]

I nearly fell out of my  chair when someone had two rams and then red jokered the damage flip on me for 9 damage on Imazu. 

 

I think thralls are good, but I may be biased after that 

[Mikes]

If anything you're not being crazy enough. I love my thralls, and they've never been anything less than stellar for me. Sometimes too mich so - in my last game one two-shotted Von Schill when i needed him alive to deliver a message.

I've stopped taking two in the hiring though in favour of one plus a peacekeeper, as it's so easy to summon one later, and there's nothing like seeing your opponents face drop as another big beater hits the table.

I'm really looking forward to trying two in a Lucius crew too.

[trikk]

Personally I can't fit them into a list because there is more important stuff but they are insane summons

[longfanz]

55 minutes ago, trikk said:

Personally I can't fit them into a list because there is more important stuff but they are insane summons

What is your standard Sonnia list? judge, 3x spellcasters, steward?

[trikk]

4 minutes ago, longfanz said:

What is your standard Sonnia list? judge, 3x spellcasters, steward?

LLC on Sonnia, 2x Spellcaster, Judge, 2x Pathfinder, Steward, Effigy+Upgrade

[longfanz]

2 hours ago, trikk said:

LLC on Sonnia, 2x Spellcaster, Judge, 2x Pathfinder, Steward, Effigy+Upgrade

thanks, interesting... I've played a little bit more and find very difficult to make a more scheme oriented list in guild. Other factions have at least 1 or 2 good scheme runners but in my opinion we don't.

[ShinChan]

11 hours ago, trikk said:

LLC on Sonnia, 2x Spellcaster, Judge, 2x Pathfinder, Steward, Effigy+Upgrade

That's a weird list, but I haven't played Sonnia in M3E (not even in the beta, or maybe once long ago). I would love an explanation on how that works and why not going into a more "in theme" core list and if it's really worth it to pay those 3 extra SS. I guess that the Judge is because she's an amazing beater and the extra card draw, but now that is only 3, I don't think she's that "must".

I was thinking of something more like this:

Soul Stone Cache: 6
[Masters]
 - Sonnia Criid, Leader
   + Lead-Lined Coat
[Henchmen]
 - Samael Hopkins
[Enforcers]
 - Purifying Flame
 - Guild Steward
 - Pale Rider
[Minions]
 - Witchling Handler
 - Sanctioned Spellcaster
 - Witchling Stalker
 

The Stalker is mainly there to have someone affected by Handler and Sonnia's free action. Which allows him to charge someone at 19" with 1 focus and hopefully start putting some fire.

[trikk]

17 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

That's a weird list, but I haven't played Sonnia in M3E (not even in the beta, or maybe once long ago). I would love an explanation on how that works and why not going into a more "in theme" core list and if it's really worth it to pay those 3 extra SS. I guess that the Judge is because she's an amazing beater and the extra card draw, but now that is only 3, I don't think she's that "must".

I was thinking of something more like this:

Soul Stone Cache: 6
[Masters]
 - Sonnia Criid, Leader
   + Lead-Lined Coat
[Henchmen]
 - Samael Hopkins
[Enforcers]
 - Purifying Flame
 - Guild Steward
 - Pale Rider
[Minions]
 - Witchling Handler
 - Sanctioned Spellcaster
 - Witchling Stalker
 

The Stalker is mainly there to have someone affected by Handler and Sonnia's free action. Which allows him to charge someone at 19" with 1 focus and hopefully start putting some fire.

Because Judge also has min 3, is super tough and gets you 3 cards a turn. Pathfinders can get Sonnia out of engagement, ignore concealment, have a 14" and can summon traps. Thralls die very easily because they are Df5 with only HtW and you don't really need them early and they kind of force you to take the Handler.

[ShinChan]

11 minutes ago, trikk said:

Because Judge also has min 3, is super tough and gets you 3 cards a turn. Pathfinders can get Sonnia out of engagement, ignore concealment, have a 14" and can summon traps. Thralls die very easily because they are Df5 with only HtW and you don't really need them early and they kind of force you to take the Handler.

The Pathfinders are 14ss vs the Pale Rider that costs "only" 11ss. And gives you 1" more push.

I really like Samael in 3rd edition, being able to shoot 3 times or even Creep Along + shoot twice + Charge with a  to the damage it's quite good. I agree that the Handler is way more situational model, but I love the miniature  

[trikk]

16 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

The Pathfinders are 14ss vs the Pale Rider that costs "only" 11ss. And gives you 1" more push.

I really like Samael in 3rd edition, being able to shoot 3 times or even Creep Along + shoot twice + Charge with a  to the damage it's quite good. I agree that the Handler is way more situational model, but I love the miniature  

Pathfinders can give you 8" each turn and can push you out of combat post initiative.

[Cursed25]

10 hours ago, longfanz said:

thanks, interesting... I've played a little bit more and find very difficult to make a more scheme oriented list in guild. Other factions have at least 1 or 2 good scheme runners but in my opinion we don't.

spellcasters are good scheme runners in Sonnia's crew! Park one with Samael on one flank and in 2 turns you have move 30'' with him or 25'' with a scheme put down.

 

Habitually I wait for the board to clear a bit (pretty easy with Sonnia since most opponent will be really afraid and focus on her) So when you have a free line to pass the spellcaster uninjured you throw him on the other side of the board and he can start scoring for those in enemy DZ schemes  the reason to bring Samael is that with his creep along bonus he can easily keep up with the spellcaster with only one move and stay in the aura to make them fast.

[longfanz]

it really depends on the schemes, what I found is that if the enemy can outmaneuver you and there is no need to go for her they will (fast crews for example). Sonnia is not as she was, with LLC and her aura is not that easy to take down and very resource intensive so if you focus on her scheme runners she will struggle. The problem for me is that we don't have a lot of fast models, not a lot of pushes, no leaps... Ironically one of our fastest keywords is augmented XD

[trikk]

4 minutes ago, longfanz said:

it really depends on the schemes, what I found is that if the enemy can outmaneuver you and there is no need to go for her they will (fast crews for example). Sonnia is not as she was, with LLC and her aura is not that easy to take down and very resource intensive so if you focus on her scheme runners she will struggle. The problem for me is that we don't have a lot of fast models, not a lot of pushes, no leaps... Ironically one of our fastest keywords is augmented XD

I think Elite is also pretty fast.

We also have 1 leap, on a 16SS model

[longfanz]

9 minutes ago, trikk said:

I think Elite is also pretty fast.

We also have 1 leap, on a 16SS model

hahaha, true, the scariest scheme runner of all.

[jphealy]

Try a Guardian with her vs the Pale Rider.  You will not be disappointed.   Also remember particularly early game she is as much a control master now.   Stack that burning on models and watch internal synergies drop hard.  

[ShinChan]

16 hours ago, trikk said:

Pathfinders can give you 8" each turn and can push you out of combat post initiative.

Ohh, yeah, haven't seen the passive ability

The Rider is 7" anyway (since it's base is almost 2"). And Sonnia with LLC and counterspell is quite tought in my opinion, even tho I see the point in your list  How are you plan to start the burning game? Because with the short range of the spellcasters, getting as close as to 8" without dying, can be quite tricky.

[4thstringer]

10 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

Ohh, yeah, haven't seen the passive ability

The Rider is 7" anyway (since it's base is almost 2"). And Sonnia with LLC and counterspell is quite tought in my opinion, even tho I see the point in your list  How are you plan to start the burning game? Because with the short range of the spellcasters, getting as close as to 8" without dying, can be quite tricky.

Sonnia almost always brings all the burning I need (though I do like a more witchling heavy crew than the one posted).

[trikk]

15 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

Ohh, yeah, haven't seen the passive ability

The Rider is 7" anyway (since it's base is almost 2"). And Sonnia with LLC and counterspell is quite tought in my opinion, even tho I see the point in your list  How are you plan to start the burning game? Because with the short range of the spellcasters, getting as close as to 8" without dying, can be quite tricky.

This is where its counterpicking. Everybody brings condition removal because Sonnia = burning, BUT DAMAGE IS NOT A CONDITION  

[Legislat]

The list I recently tried is heavy with those guys.

Sonnia, Flame,

2 Thralls,

Lucius,

Steward,

Witchling Handler

 

It is super aggressive list, With issue command, entourage, free focuses from Steward and Sonnia you can throw those guys in the opponents face turn one in case of flank deployment. If they just hit 2 times and die in an explosion it is often enough to stall the enemy and Sonnia can bring them back turn 2-3 with a bit of luck. And with those two rampaging early Sonnia is often left to do whatever she wants. 

[Mikes]

9 hours ago, Legislat said:

The list I recently tried is heavy with those guys.

Sonnia, Flame,

2 Thralls,

Lucius,

Steward,

Witchling Handler

 

It is super aggressive list, With issue command, entourage, free focuses from Steward and Sonnia you can throw those guys in the opponents face turn one in case of flank deployment. If they just hit 2 times and die in an explosion it is often enough to stall the enemy and Sonnia can bring them back turn 2-3 with a bit of luck. And with those two rampaging early Sonnia is often left to do whatever she wants. 

I'm really keen to give this list a try once I have Lucius painted up. My only concern would be having open flanks or having to send anything to the far side of the board for schemes or strats.