Ramos players: How many spiders do you actually use?

[WWHSD]

I'm new to Malifaux (just started on my first crew and have yet to play the game). Ramos looked like a good box to start with since there's other Masters in the same faction that appeal to me and he comes with models that look useful no matter which Master I'm using.

I ordered the M&SU box and a box of spiders to get started. I was planning on magnetizing them so that I could have 12 spiders or 4 swarms or some combination in between. However, when the models arrived and I assembled them I realized that my plan exceeded my skill level.

What I'm wondering is, "Will Ramos ever need more than 6 spiders or 2 swarms?". Assuming a 5 round game and Ramos summoning two spiders per round, the most spiders that I should ever need will be 10. Hitting 10 also requires nothing to be killing my spiders which means that all that scrap has to be coming from somewhere. 

Will I kick myself for making 2 swarms and 6 spiders? I really want the flexibility from magnets but I'm not sure how to pull it off.

[Gnomezilla]

I have had a game with nine spiders on the table even though I do not play Ramos very often. Again, because I don't play him often, I have not had him put more than one swarm on the table at a time.

There's a company selling base inserts designed to fix the problem: tiny square bases, big enough to glue each tiny arachnid to, that slot into a bigger 40mm scenic base with square cut-outs. I don't know the name offhand.

There's also a convention that a 40mm base is a swarm even if it has fewer than three spiders on it, so you could build 8 individual spiders and 2 swarms with 2 spiders apiece--this is what I've done with my magnetization, for the occasions I feel silly and run four steam arachnid swarms with Hoffman. (He shares stats, so he uses a guardian and half of his AP every activation to give all the swarms Ml7, and then the swarms nom things to death. It's silly, it's unreliable, it has a threat range of maybe 11" maximum--it's fun against crews who want to drop lots of scheme markers!)

"All that scrap" generally comes from getting the killing blow with Joss--on your own models, sometimes, even. It's a common Ramos turn one move to hire a cheap construct and have Joss kill it for two scrap. On that topic, six scrap markers has been enough even in construct vs. construct games--if all six are already on the table that's more than enough scrap for both crews' needs.

[Squirrelich]

Adding data from my experiences: I built 8 spiders and 1 swarm (with one spider still hanging out on sprue). I think the most spiders I've had on the table in one game is 6 or 7 in 20-30 games of Ramos. There have been situations where at the time I really wanted to summon a second swarm, but in each those times after the game I thought about it and decided that doing so would have been the wrong decision and I'm glad I didn't have the second swarm to let me do it.

[spooky_squirrel]

The base gadget that @Gnomezilla mentioned are likely these ones from customeeple. Similar to @7thSquirrel I acquired a second swarm box and built a single swarm. The other 9 spiders are on standby to drop onto the table. I've only had one game so far where I've been in danger of not having enough spiders to put more on the table, and in that game I went ahead and made a swarm to have more bodies to drop on the table.

 

If I had seen the linked gadgets before getting the second box, I'd probably still have the second swarm box just to have additional spiders for those games where more scheming than killing is happening. For scheme-heavy pools, about half of my Ramos games have seen 5-7 spiders on the table at any given time (Turn 2+).

[Boomstick]

I concur with @Gnomezilla, 9 is the most individual spiders I've had out with Ramos, though I don't play him over-often. I've summoned two swarms in the same game before, but the second was after the first one had died/been sacrificed, so i only needed the one model.

One thing that helped me in magnetizing mine was to add cork to the bases as rocky ground. Gives more dimention to have the spiders on different levels, and more surface area to glue since you can stap their feet into the cork (even if you're not magnetizing).

What are you having trouble with on the magnets?

[WWHSD]

3 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

What are you having trouble with on the magnets?

Just for some background on my modeling experience, the arachnids are more complicated than anything I've ever assembled.

I was planning on attaching the spiders to small washers and then attaching magnets to the bases. In messing around with positioning 3 spiders on the 40mm base, I'm having trouble making them all fit without having their legs overlapping which doesn't seem like it will be possible with the legs glued to a washer.

[BFOmega]

I'll agree with the general advice you see on here, 9 singles and 1 swarm should do you fine. Realistically, if you ever need more than that of either, you're probably super far ahead in the game anyway and you can find something else to do with that AP.

[Boomstick]

3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I'm having trouble making them all fit without having their legs overlapping which doesn't seem like it will be possible with the legs glued to a washer.

That would indeed be a tough spacial equation to solve. What I did on mine is take a hand drill/pin vice to the spiders' bellies and glue in a 1/8" magnet, then pick where I wanted it on the base in relation to the others, having already put cork down a rocks. Hand dril intonthe cork, shove more magnets down the hole with some glue (making sure the right polarity is facing upwards to attract the spiders) and wait for it to dry.

Can be intimidating to start for sure, but breaking it down a piece at a time helps.

Also, magnets. They're just fun.

[Franchute]

I have 9 spiders and 1 swarm too and I'm fine as well. If I built a 2nd swarm, it would be for my Hoffman crews rather than for Ramos.

[WWHSD]

39 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

That would indeed be a tough spacial equation to solve. What I did on mine is take a hand drill/pin vice to the spiders' bellies and glue in a 1/8" magnet, then pick where I wanted it on the base in relation to the others, having already put cork down a rocks. Hand dril intonthe cork, shove more magnets down the hole with some glue (making sure the right polarity is facing upwards to attract the spiders) and wait for it to dry.

Can be intimidating to start for sure, but breaking it down a piece at a time helps.

Also, magnets. They're just fun.

Thanks for the advice. Doing something other than just painting bases and maybe using a some sand or flocking isn't something that I've really given much thought to. 

I'm more interested in Malifaux for its gameplay aspects than I am for modeling but I figure that I should get my feet wet with the hobby bits instead of just throwing gray plastic on the table.

[Gnomezilla]

The 40mm base with three spiders (I discovered the 2 spiders = swarm after basing the first three spiders) has a metal gear elevated atop a screw, so the three spiders aren't all overlapping their legs in the same plane. Two spiders fit on the flat of a 40mm base just fine. And I'm generally not at all fond of 3D bases, but here it's necessary.

This was my first minis game as well...but I admit I put a honey-do request on Howard Langston. Good luck with that.

[Starrius]

I think the actual most I've ever put in the table in 1 game was 12 spiders just had a game they wouldn't die and u was summoning 3 a turn with ramos and the mech rider after turn 1 summoned a couple.

 

Very odd but normally I get about 7-8 on the board and a swarm.

 

I use the custom needle bases with the magnets and due I have found them a god send I have a nice little pot with 15 spiders in it and all my bases ready to go

[madaxeman]

The most spiders I've ever put out is 9, and at most one swarm. 

I did start with a scheme with magnets and the like, but after about a year realized that I'd basically done a huge amount of extra work and incurred a lot of extra cost, the only real impact of which was that I had also managed to make some of my smallest and hardest to handle models even more flimsy and subject to in-game breakages than they were originally, just to save a few quid on models fora game where I already probably have literally hundreds of pounds worth of models I'll never use, or at best use far less often than I'd use a swarm.

So, in a moment of sanity I just glued all of the individual magnetized spiders to their bases, shelled out on another pack of spiders and built myself a separate swarm.

Now I'm a much happier and rounded individual-) 

 

[Mxbedlam]

I pinned mine to some cork and put a magnet in the cork. Then put magnets on the 30 and 40mm bases. Easy peasy. 

I've also never had more than 6 spiders out but I use them very aggressively in my lists. 

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

I pinned them and made holes on the bases.

0 money in magnets, easiest way and still decent effect.

[WWHSD]

To people that have pinned the spiders (I just had to look up what that was to see if it was exactly what it sounded like, it was); did you use the tips of the feet or the bottom of the body?

[spooky_squirrel]

44 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

To people that have pinned the spiders (I just had to look up what that was to see if it was exactly what it sounded like, it was); did you use the tips of the feet or the bottom of the body?

For strongest hold (and best solution for transporting), pin the body. If you're not overly concerned with how the model looks under scrutiny, this is good enough. If you do have some of that vanity (I know I do), you can use some cork or putty to make it look like a rock, stick, or piece of rubble that the spider is crawling over. The problem with pinning from the feet is that they are so fine you don't get any real hold, which leads to having to do repairs at events when you grab your event go bag and rush out the door.

 

If you're not worried about strongest hold, then pinning at the feet lets you do some more aggressive posturing (upright spiders, etc.) for a more dynamic base--more modelling aesthetics that aren't everyone's cup of tea.