May 30 - Asami

[Skitt_Happens]

Got to say. 2 days later and the render is really growing on me. Think we need a 360° spin.... Aaron, Nathan, Justin, anyone...?

[Lucidicide]

Just now, Skitt_Happens said:

Got to say. 2 days later and the render is really growing on me. Think we need a 360° spin.... Nathan, Justin, anyone...?

If only you'd mentioned my name, I would have done it. :-P

These are previews... teasers, if you will. Something to awaken your appetite without quite bedding it back down again.

[Skitt_Happens]

3 minutes ago, Aaron said:

If only you'd mentioned my name, I would have done it. :-P

These are previews... teasers, if you will. Something to awaken your appetite without quite bedding it back down again.

I edited, I edited! Drew a blank mid-typing - nothing personal, promise. 

So... you guys are like the Rotten Belles of marketing? Is that how you'd like to be known? 

[Lucidicide]

I always thought of myself more like a Doxy... Hm.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Not to be over-sensitive, but does she look like a stereotype to anyone else, what with the cartoonish sleeves and posture? I mean, if she's some sort of pseudo-mimic and it's meant to be stylized/incorrect, wouldn't she have an exaggerated sensibility stylized like a japanese perspective (i.e. where they're culturally based, and how they interact with humanity etc.) on japanese women such as from a painting than a western one from a cartoon in the future?

[D_acolyte]

55 minutes ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

Not to be over-sensitive, but does she look like a stereotype to anyone else, what with the cartoonish sleeves and posture? I mean, if she's some sort of pseudo-mimic and it's meant to be stylized/incorrect, wouldn't she have an exaggerated sensibility stylized like a japanese perspective (i.e. where they're culturally based, and how they interact with humanity etc.) on japanese women such as from a painting than a western one from a cartoon in the future?

Not to point out the obvious but a lot of models are very stereotypical, just look at the UK masters of the Resurs..... We have the mad hatter, a crazy red head Irish, and a British gentlemen. If that offends someone well sorry this game is not for you. The Gremlins are a direct mockery of a state if not a entire region in the US, Lousiana and the rural south; all they are missing is a bad incest joke and then it will check all the box for bad southern stereotype. Now I am from the South and am I offended: No at least not as long as I get my shine lol. Yan Lo and Wong are stereotypes set down by a bad movie. I bet if we sat down we would see a lot of stereotypes.

[SpiralngCadavr]

How does your feeling about one thing invalidate how I should feel about another? I enjoy a lot of this game, and it frankly kinda' irritates me that I'm apparently doing it wrong when I say I don't like something.

Wyrd just had a big ol' thread about inclusion and representation, I'm frankly a bit disappointed to hear that I should get out because of how I feel so shortly after that.

[Nexus132]

1 hour ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

Not to be over-sensitive, but does she look like a stereotype to anyone else, what with the cartoonish sleeves and posture? I mean, if she's some sort of pseudo-mimic and it's meant to be stylized/incorrect, wouldn't she have an exaggerated sensibility stylized like a japanese perspective (i.e. where they're culturally based, and how they interact with humanity etc.) on japanese women such as from a painting than a western one from a cartoon in the future?

I don't think so. I don't really see anything that that I would call a blatant stereotype. She's obviously wearing Japanese styled clothing but that's far from inappropriate for what/who she is. The pose and sleeves give of a more creepy vibe to me, the long hooked sleeves create an inhuman silhouette, the pose just seems uncomfortable. idk, maybe im just to desensitized from sculpts like wong, which is a blatant stereotype but im pretty sure thats the joke.

[Tawg]

29 minutes ago, D_acolyte said:

Yan Lo and Wong are stereotypes set down by a bad movie.

Bad... movie?

 

 

I don't even have words for this

[SpiralngCadavr]

Nexus, I don't care about the pretty standard clothing, but the exaggerated asian girl sleeves and s-curve pose are both pretty much straight out of pretty archaic (but anachronistic for the setting) stereotypes.

And yeah, conscious response to pop culture camp isn't really the same as what, unless I'm completely not seeing the humor, seems to be a plain old caricature.

[D_acolyte]

3 minutes ago, Tawg said:

Bad... movie?

 

 

I don't even have words for this

I was not a fan of Big Trouble in Little China, also Burt is from that bad movie.

So I was a little over the top but my point is this: if you are anti stereotypes then there are plenty to speak out against but if you are anti one stereotype then you are picking and choosing stereotypes your against and I could not care less.

[SpiralngCadavr]

That's fair. I think some of them are okay, I think a few of them cross the line, and this is one that I think fits squarely in the latter camp.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

That's fair. I think some of them are okay, I think a few of them cross the line, and this is one that I think fits squarely in the latter camp.

Suppose someone made a figure depicting a monster or demon from Japanese mythology, and kept the depiction of that model accurate to how the images for that monster depicted the monster in that era.  How would you expect it to me depicted?

For ease of reference, quoting from page two of the thread:

On 2016/5/30 at 0:02 PM, Skaven123 said:

Ah that's gonna be cool! Futakuchi-Onna

Japanese demon lady with weird wavy hair, a misshapen face, and a misshapen body.  It's supposed to be disturbing.

 

[tomjoad]

I'm glad SpiralingCadavr brought this up. I have to admit that i don't really agree with him on this one, but it's good to discuss.

In this case, as Skaven/Solkan point out, I really think this model is accurate to the source material that I've seen. If they're really trying to evoke this particular myth, then what we've seen so far is doing a good job of it. Also, I think the largeness of her robe is distorting how we're perceiving her body. I think that she's meant to look hunched and shriveled, but the long sleeves are maybe taking away from this effect?

This model, more than most I've seen from Wyrd, really makes me want to see the whole thing, in 3D (and preferably in person) before I can really form an opinion about it.

[Parker Barrows]

On 5/31/2016 at 2:07 AM, -Loki- said:

I wonder if the vague comment "synergize with the oni she calls forth from the Beyond..." means she has summoning capacity? Dreamer vs an Oni summoner would be nightmare fuel.

That's how I took it.

On 5/30/2016 at 10:05 PM, Rathnard said:

I'll admit, my first impression of her wasn't great. I was hoping for something a little more monstrous or sadistic-looking for an Oni Master so the actual art didn't really match my expectations. 

That said, I'm now liking it more and more. If nothing else the sculpt tells a story. She's an ordinary - looking Japanese girl, not especially pretty (she's not a former "companion", like Kirai) and possibly from an unremarkable background.   The kimono has design elements similar to a straight jacket so at some point she lost the plot and was incarcerated. We know she's an Oni Master so she presumably made a "deal with the devil" to escape, but from the pained expression on her face she's clearly not the one in control. Basically Asami comes across as a pawn of the Oni - a vessel to use/abuse for their own purposes. If Asami entered into this situation willingly, I'm pretty sure she's regretting it now.   

I really hope she is like this.

23 hours ago, RatsInTheWalls said:

I will change my current Guild vote to Outcasts if I can get a few people to promise to vote Guild if Outcasts win.

Done.

14 hours ago, Skitt_Happens said:

... poo.

I must have spent hours looking at that photo prepping my own conversation and I missed those two legs... now mine feels like an injured Joro.

At some point I would love to put down a list of 5 Jorogumo with Misaki and Smoke and Shadows: I wonder if Asami will replace Misaki in that list? 1 ap charges v teleporting monsters... I want Ripples of Fate, now! 

Just to point out, the blurb does kinda suggest she can summon oni. Since Joro are minions, they probably can be summoned (may need a high card).

3 hours ago, Aaron said:

If only you'd mentioned my name, I would have done it. :-P

These are previews... teasers, if you will. Something to awaken your appetite without quite bedding it back down again.

You could put up Asami's back as an option in the next poll.

[AverageGatsby]

15 hours ago, Skitt_Happens said:

At some point I would love to put down a list of 5 Jorogumo with Misaki and Smoke and Shadows: I wonder if Asami will replace Misaki in that list? 1 ap charges v teleporting monsters... I want Ripples of Fate, now! 

Why not both? Smoke and shadows simply needs to be taken by a last blossom model, so I've put it on Yamaziko before if not running Misaki. Yamaziko is cheapish for a henchman, can gunk up a decent section of the board and now that schemes cannot be revealed at the start can get some cards out of the opponent's hand early turn two. Plus deep striking spider demons. What's not to like?

[SpiralngCadavr]

2 hours ago, solkan said:

Suppose someone made a figure depicting a monster or demon from Japanese mythology, and kept the depiction of that model accurate to how the images for that monster depicted the monster in that era.  How would you expect it to me depicted?

For ease of reference, quoting from page two of the thread:

Japanese demon lady with weird wavy hair, a misshapen face, and a misshapen body.  It's supposed to be disturbing.

 

That's a really obviously modern illustration, so is not a good reference piece.

The hair is not my taste, but not a problem with the concept.

The wide, heavily lidded eyes is just shy of yellow-face taped eyelid-style stereotype, based on chinese stereotypes and facial structures, not japanese. If going for a japanese-styled mimic of the aesthetics rather than reality, you'd see one with shallow features and extremely high/faint eyebrows, the airbrushed look. An exaggeratedly tall/oblong face with features that are too small wouldn't be out of the question, while a squished one with large features is probably unheard of. 

The extreme forward hunch is also linked closely with western caricatures (of propagandized/parodied subhuman asians). The style of the time would be droopy/natural shoulders or exaggeratedly pointy ones. A downward tilt to the head and or exaggerated emphasis on the shoulders and collar, emphasizing the neck, is pretty common with representations of women.

Those sleeves... they're just made out of problems. Yes, asian fashions often had crazy sleeves, but no, they looked nothing like that. Kirai's triangular and layered ones are pretty reasonable examples. I don't think I've ever seen anyone outside a racist stereotype wear ones like those, though. I think the hooks are ridiculous, but that's just taste.

[KuroTora]

10 hours ago, AverageGatsby said:

Why not both? Smoke and shadows simply needs to be taken by a last blossom model, so I've put it on Yamaziko before if not running Misaki. Yamaziko is cheapish for a henchman, can gunk up a decent section of the board and now that schemes cannot be revealed at the start can get some cards out of the opponent's hand early turn two. Plus deep striking spider demons. What's not to like?

the only thing not to like is Yamaziko's sculpt - at least for me ... I cannot specify what exactly it is that I don't like about her (and I'm still trying to figure out how to convert her into a pose that I like), but yeah that's the only thing that makes me shy away from taking her in my lists

 

8 hours ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

That's a really obviously modern illustration, so is not a good reference piece.

The hair is not my taste, but not a problem with the concept.

The wide, heavily lidded eyes is just shy of yellow-face taped eyelid-style stereotype, based on chinese stereotypes and facial structures, not japanese. If going for a japanese-styled mimic of the aesthetics rather than reality, you'd see one with shallow features and extremely high/faint eyebrows, the airbrushed look. An exaggeratedly tall/oblong face with features that are too small wouldn't be out of the question, while a squished one with large features is probably unheard of. 

The extreme forward hunch is also linked closely with western caricatures (of propagandized/parodied subhuman asians). The style of the time would be droopy/natural shoulders or exaggeratedly pointy ones. A downward tilt to the head and or exaggerated emphasis on the shoulders and collar, emphasizing the neck, is pretty common with representations of women.

Those sleeves... they're just made out of problems. Yes, asian fashions often had crazy sleeves, but no, they looked nothing like that. Kirai's triangular and layered ones are pretty reasonable examples. I don't think I've ever seen anyone outside a racist stereotype wear ones like those, though. I think the hooks are ridiculous, but that's just taste.

well, why should a modern illustration be a bad reference piece?  (for a fictional character ... with -I presume- her fluff slightly 'wyrded' out)

I quite like the hair and I think it fits, since it kinda gives her an otherworldly feeling

I too am not a fan of her face at the moment - since I'm waiting until I hold the mini in my hands for my final decision - but I'm not sure I'd say she looks chinese. but maybe you're right and my problem with her - that she doesn't look japanese enough to me (tbh my first impression was that she looks not asian enough for her name) - is exactly what you pointed out.

so you see racial and (to a point) sexual discrimination in the pose of this fictional mini??? wow

I think the long sleeves are quite a cool style ... check out the japanese movie Shinobi - Heart under Blade ... (I think it's even based on a japanese graphic novel). my favourite character in this movie has exactly those extremely long sleeves (he kinda shoots hair from those sleeves that tangle and even cut and slice his opponents) ... if the hooks have no real prupose in her rules or fluff I might just take them off, so Asami resembles him even more.

 

so my only real problem is her face (but I think it's just a little bit too distorted), which can easily be fixed, if I still feel that way when I have her on my hobbytable.

[KuroTora]

on a totally different note:

still a tie in the votes???

[Franchute]

1 hour ago, KuroTora said:

on a totally different note:

still a tie in the votes???

Now arcanists are leading by one. Come on outcasts! Wake up!

[Eclipse]

And back to a tie in the votes. The cheering match is actually a lot of fun Go, Outcasts, go! Run ahead of the Arcanist scrum!

[RDK]

I wonder what will happen on a tie? Will both be revealed?

[Math Mathonwy]

Go Gremlins go! You can still win this! Push push push!

[RDK]

Could this have something to do with the minions that will have some synergy with the yet unrevieled journalist looking master?

[Jason13]

12 hours ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

 

Those sleeves... they're just made out of problems. Yes, asian fashions often had crazy sleeves, but no, they looked nothing like that. Kirai's triangular and layered ones are pretty reasonable examples. I don't think I've ever seen anyone outside a racist stereotype wear ones like those, though. I think the hooks are ridiculous, but that's just taste.

I don't  know about Japanese  culture  but in Chinese culture  they have a  type of dance that  utilizes  dresses with sleeves  4 feet  long or more. It's  a beautiful art form. Twist it malifaux style  by adding hooks and it fits this character  very well. On a side  note ,  I don't  understand  all the hate on the face. I actually  quite like it.