Shifting Loyalties Cards Should Be Made Available

[koronuslight]

Brutal Emissary... I own a legal Avatar proxy

Carrion Emissary... I own a legal Avatar proxy

Arcane Emissary... I own a legal Avatar proxy

Mysterious Emissary... I own a legal Avatar proxy

Hodgepodge Emissary... I own a legal Avatar proxy

Lucky Emissary... I would only consider buying it if the actual model isn't a nightmare to build, which seems unlikely of late, so probably hunt down Somer and Peaches Avatar

Shadow Emissary... I have no intention of buying it, because lame cliche dragon in uninteresting pose, but a friend has a reasonable proxy model for casual games

 

Forgotten Marshal... I constructed one using the TTB Male kit and a Wyrd metal coffin, on top of a Wyrd 30mm base

 

Sparks... friend of mine constructed one using plastic Rami and some spare bits

Mechanized Porkchop... same friend constructed one using plastic War Pig and some spare bits

 

As it stands now, at most, that's 57 cards we need between two people.

From my understanding, the current stance is "too bad, buy our models when they are released, then you can have cards for them"

 

I am disappoint.

[Arli]

You could always photocopy the cards out of the book and print them on card stock.  As long as you are not selling them and they are from your copy, it is completely legal.  Also, I would assume that the cards will eventually be available like the other cards through the third party that sells the reprintable cards.

[Absolution Black]

Whilst I can understand the likely business decision behind this (Why provide cards so people can use their proxies and NOT buy the actual model when released), it is annoying.

Gamers will want to use Book 3 models but to do so they will likely need to carry the book around with them. Or print their own copies (which are likely to be inferior). Plus keep track of wounds etc on extra sheets, if they don't photocopy or print their own.  It is just inconvenient.

And to be honest, the players are likely to buy the actual model when it is released as well unless it is, in their opinion, horrendous.

 

 

[jonahmaul]

4 minutes ago, Arli said:

You could always photocopy the cards out of the book and print them on card stock.  As long as you are not selling them and they are from your copy, it is completely legal.  Also, I would assume that the cards will eventually be available like the other cards through the third party that sells the reprintable cards.

That is the point of this thread I believe.  Wyrd have already said in the official Print on Demand thread that they are not making them available.  I'm with the OP, it's quite frankly ridiculous that you can't buy the Wave 3 cards when it would be incredibly simple to make them available.  Same with the upgrades that I understand are not available.  The Wave 3 models are all GG legal with suitable proxies yet you can't get a proper card printed for them even though these cards exist in no form at all.

[Absolution Black]

6 minutes ago, Arli said:

You could always photocopy the cards out of the book and print them on card stock.  As long as you are not selling them and they are from your copy, it is completely legal.  Also, I would assume that the cards will eventually be available like the other cards through the third party that sells the reprintable cards.

Its an option granted, but if, like me, you simply don't have the free time or access to the relevant materials/services, its a bit moot.  Ordering the actual cards to arrive in the post takes me no time at all.  I like that.  I am also a lazy sod.

[koronuslight]

3 hours ago, Arli said:

Also, I would assume that the cards will eventually be available like the other cards through the third party that sells the reprintable cards.

So far, the paraphrased answer is "no, older cards only because we are no longer making Arsenal decks"

Carrying around a giant book, which had started falling apart within the first week of owning from poor binding in the first place, is not an option. 

All I am asking for are cards that look like the cards I was already made to purchase with the Arsenal decks in the first place, that I can place inside plastic card sleeves to use in actual games. 

I shouldn't have to sit around in Photoshop and setup 57 double sided cards to get overcharged at Staples.

[LordZombie]

I understand the model part, I don't understand the upgrades. Those are hardest thing to get.

[Bengt]

I'm really kind of flabbergasted that they don't sell w3 cards. If people like an Emissary model they'll buy it, if they don't they wont. If they use a proxy/conversion/avatar the number of people who will buy the official model just for the cards will be ridiculously small, the rest will use photocopies or make their own. So Wyrd is just losing out on card sales.

With upgrades it competes with products that a decent amount of people can be expect to buy (the generalist pack and the PoD arsenals) so I can see where they are coming from there even if I don't like it.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yeah, I'll be fairly disappointed if the emissaries don't get cards, considering the old avatars officially represent them already. I've got at least one for every faction (well, except TT of course), and would like to use my fancy centerpiece models without buying new fancy centerpiece models that fill an identical role.

[koronuslight]

The people have spoken. 

And by people, I mean this small cross section. 

And by spoken, I mean agree with me.

And actually it's 58 cards, because I forgot I already converted a Master Queeg from the male TTB set as well. 

[jonahmaul]

37 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

The people have spoken. 

Unfortunately it seems Wyrd's will to listen has diminished over recent times. Can only hope they change their mind on this one.

[Snoutopus]

I find this very disappointing as well. I'm a big fan of conversions via the male and female Through the Breach boxes, and this sort of thing makes the logistics of getting to play with them that much more complicated. 

[Adran]

I'm pretty sure They will sell the Emissary cards Print on demand, but not until they are available as a physical model.  I'm hoping by then that they are selling upgrade cards, because getting the emissary stat card but no upgrade cards is a lot less use.  

 

This is pretty consistent with Wyrd releasing stuff to physical stores before they have it in their own webstore, and the physical copies of the books being available for a while before the electronic versions can be bought. 

Its also consistent with the majority of their release process where you only own the cards for the models you buy, with the purpose of the arsenal decks to allow old players to use models they already own. 

And to be honest, if you have the time and the inclination to make your own proxy model, you can probably make your own proxy card. They have said that card sales aren't something that they do for profit. 

Did I ever expect Wyrd to sell me the cards for a model they haven't yet made? No, that's never been something I have expected them to do. I would have been fine with buying the wave 2 arsenal decks with only cards for models that already existed. 

[Munindk]

14 minutes ago, Adran said:

I'm pretty sure They will sell the Emissary cards Print on demand, but not until they are available as a physical model.  I'm hoping by then that they are selling upgrade cards, because getting the emissary stat card but no upgrade cards is a lot less use. 

I'm with Adran here. I think its a little early to conclude that "Wyrd doesnt listen to the people" and "They wont sell Avatar upgrade cards" when they could in fact just be waiting to release the cards to the "print on the demand" service until the models are released.

As I understand it the there wont be a wave 3 upgrade deck because the purpose of the wave decks were to allow people to use existing metal models. Apart from the Avatars there arent legal models for the wave 3 models and therefore (almost) no need for a wave 3 deck.

Since anyone could lose/misplace a card and therefore need a replacement, I hope (and honestly think) that the wave 3 cards will be available after the models are released.

[koronuslight]

Wave 3 models appear to be released, unconfirmed, at Gen Con Sale (not implausible, basing this on gaming trade information). Digital cards are unlikely to be released that weekend, so not until after the Gen Con orders go out.

Which means no new models for a year, and no compensation in the form of nice quality cards for OVER a year for those of us who have been "making do" in the interim. Considering all it feasibly takes is uploading artwork to a server, even if they're full speed ahead on other projects in the design department, it's not like they couldn't recruit a design student to intern for a few months to handle the grunt work. I've worked in pre-production, it's largely copy, paste, proofread, send.

Wyrd doesn't need people to apologize for it - they're big kids who can handle themselves on the playground. We are looking for Wyrd to apologize in the form of decent quality cardstock with full color laser printing on it. 

Because waiting. 

[-Loki-]

I find it bad simply from a standpoint of replacement cards. If I buy a Mysterious Emmisary, and the card falls down a sewer/has a paint pot dropped on it/gets stolen/etc, I have to buy another Mysterious Emmisary to get a card for it. I would have thought the print on demand card service would cover all cards simply to cover that.

[Ludvig]

8 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

I find it bad simply from a standpoint of replacement cards. If I buy a Mysterious Emmisary, and the card falls down a sewer/has a paint pot dropped on it/gets stolen/etc, I have to buy another Mysterious Emmisary to get a card for it. I would have thought the print on demand card service would cover all cards simply to cover that.

I was under the impression that the cards are likely to become available some time after the official models are released, just not before them. No idea where I got that from.

In the meantime it sucks for us avatar-owners since we need to go through the trouble of photocopying. Releasing official cards over a year before the models would seem like a questionable business strategy from a company trying to make money off models that can be replaced by those of other companies.

[koronuslight]

I was under the impression they will not be releasing any new cards as of this time. If they want to "surprise" us with a "gift" of "good news" and announce it after the models are released, they should just announce it now and then this thread can be over. 

Just saying. Surprises with models are fine. Surprises with things that don't cost them money and don't make them lose money are just lame.

[Ludvig]

7 minutes ago, koronuslight said:

I was under the impression they will not be releasing any new cards as of this time. If they want to "surprise" us with a "gift" of "good news" and announce it after the models are released, they should just announce it now and then this thread can be over. 

Just saying. Surprises with models are fine. Surprises with things that don't cost them money and don't make them lose money are just lame.

I think it's the "don't make them lose money" where they may have made a different assessment than you. Not that I know the first thing about business, but facilitating proxies from other companies when your company lives entirely on selling models seems like a bad idea. I agree that the models that actually have official wyrd-produced models (avatars/emmissaries) should have cards available.

[Adran]

Cards aren't going to beat the miniatures to the market - and as it stands - the POD cards are there to replace the arsenal decks which have always been meant as a bridge for edition players and as we're removing those from the line, we've added this option. Cards will be available with the miniatures as they hit release.

This is what Nathan said in the original announcement thread.

I realise I've read this as cards will get added to the print on demand site after the models hit release, and it doesn't actually say that. (or deny it). But it does tell us that they aren't going to put cards for sale until they have the models for sale (at the earliest). So we pretty much know that the Emissaries aren't going to be available for the next 4 months. So if you want cards for them, you're going to have to make your own.  

 

We know that Ripples of fate will have new upgrades for existing models. I'm interested to see how they handle the sale of these cards for an idea on their future view on card release. 

 

[Ludvig]

17 minutes ago, Adran said:

 

 

This is what Nathan said in the original announcement thread.

I realise I've read this as cards will get added to the print on demand site after the models hit release, and it doesn't actually say that. (or deny it). But it does tell us that they aren't going to put cards for sale until they have the models for sale (at the earliest). So we pretty much know that the Emissaries aren't going to be available for the next 4 months. So if you want cards for them, you're going to have to make your own.  

 

We know that Ripples of fate will have new upgrades for existing models. I'm interested to see how they handle the sale of these cards for an idea on their future view on card release. 

 

Probably a box with all the cards like the one with every faction's wave 1 & 2 upgrades.

[Munindk]

1 hour ago, koronuslight said:

Wave 3 models appear to be released, unconfirmed, at Gen Con Sale (not implausible, basing this on gaming trade information). Digital cards are unlikely to be released that weekend, so not until after the Gen Con orders go out.

I think its important to distinguish between a prerelease at an event or a sale and a general release.

I dont expect cards to be available for print on demand until after a general release. Thats my (possibly optimistic) interpretation of the quote from Adrans post.

[PraetorDragoon]

Having only print on demand isn't great for non-american players due outrageous shipping costs and import taxes.

[jonahmaul]

It's not as bad as not having them at all though!

[koronuslight]

4 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

Having only print on demand isn't great for non-american players due outrageous shipping costs and import taxes.

True. I don't know how you guys do it over there. Patience of a saint, I guess.