Underutilizing Zoraida

[Mewens]

I've got enough games under my belt now that I'm comfortable with the game's mechanics – I'm not blatantly missing triggers, my card usage feels smooth (if not near airtight yet) and I'm not ending games with way too many / nowhere near enough soulstones.

I've played almost all my games with Zoraida, and that's nice on one hand – I can eyeball the field and have a sense of what's going on and where I need to be. On the other hand, though, I still feel like I'm missing something while I play her.

My typical setup: 50ss games, Zoraida w/ Hex Bag, Wings of Darkness and Crystal Ball/Animal Shape, 2 Waldgeists, 1-2 Silurids, Bad Juju + Eternal Fiend and Hexed Among You, and a rotating cast of support pieces or beaters (Angel Eyes being my favorite so far, but I've tried Hooded Rider, Nekima, more Waldgeists / Silurids, etc. I have not used a Nurse yet.)

What I like about the team: I'm good at scenario play, and I'm tough to hurt when there's a lot of death and mayhem in the scheme lineup. With Hexed Among You and the various Voodoo Doll shenanigans, I feel like I can establish strong control of pretty large parts of the board in short order.

What I don't like about the team: I feel like I'm crazy pillow-fisted; the only significant damage track is Bad Juju's (admittedly impressive) 1 ML action. I also feel like my synergies are shallow and at odds with each other; Zoraida feels somewhat fragile, particularly vs. snipers (which I see a lot of), but she wants to be up midfield and in LoS to support her crew. The swampfiends I've chosen generally don't have attractive Obey targets (other than a "free" move, which is often nice).

Most of my games, my Zoraida spends a lot of time harassing flanks and dropping scheme markers. As a result, I rarely get much usage out of Dance, Puppet, and find that I rarely  get to Obey my own models beyond Turn 2 (outside of some manic push for damage off the back of an Animal Shape teleport in the late game).

So, what I'm trying to ask: How do ya'll play Zoraida? (I've read through the Pull My Finger entry a few times, but I still have this itch in the back of my head that I'm missing something.) Have you found some combination of models that felt particularly right while using her? Do you play her far upfield, gambling that her attack resistance, WP and soulstone usage will even out her less-than-inspiring wound count?

Thanks in advance!

[Whut]

Zoraida is probably my most used master so far, so let me give some tips:

1) Iggy, iggy, iggy. This is my favorite model with Zoraida. Zoraida usually summons a Voodoo Doll first turn, Hexing the biggest target I can first turn, followed by Iggy attacking the Voodoo doll twice for 4-5 burning (try to get 5 with a tome, 6 is too much because it will kill the doll and waste 2 AP off Z to summon again.) If you relent you literally cannot miss, even on a black joker. At the end of the turn, 5 damage from burning on the Voodoo doll plus 5 damage from burning on the enemy is 10 damage. Just watch out for condition removal, wait until the opponent has activated all his condition removal before doing this. Also, take either a Nurse or Tarot Reading. This will let you heal the Voodoo doll easily (careful to work around the paralyze if you use the Nurse). Late in the game around turn 4 or 5, the Voodoo doll tends to die and I would rather spend my AP obeying or scheming instead of summoning a new one. Also most enemies are engaged, so getting Iggy to shoot could be dangerous. At this point, Iggy starts using his decent walk of 5 to scheme (in the event that I have protect territory, this is ideal and easy) or to intercept enemy scheme runners. He can also double walk up and use his -2 WP aura, although I've never done that before.

2) Mr Graves. I LOVE this guy. He's not going to hit like Langston, hes not going to tank like Joss, he's not going to push like Colette, but he can do all of these things well enough to be a versatile support/tank/threat piece for a super cheap cost of 8ss. His push also speeds up Zoraida or another model for the first turn or two with virtually no loss in AP since he also pushes himself.

3) You have it right with Nekima/Hooded Rider. Zoraida wants pieces that are fast and can greatly benefit from a single Obey (either walking to get into charge range, or attacking with a powerful attack). Juju is slow and fragile (although he is resilient with his upgrade, he is also fragile on a single life) and he wants to be placed in base contact with enemies to flurry on them, but is WAY too slow to be able to achieve this and needs Zoraida to waste tons of AP to help him get there. I think Bad Juju is better with Lilith who can guarantee him a spot in the center of the enemy crew, rather than Zoraida who has to walk him 2-4 times to get him there.

4) Snipers suck. Remember that you can stay out of sight of them or try to grab hard cover so that even with Focus, they will probably be stuck at a negative damage flip and deal 2-3 damage per turn, which isn't so scary. Remember to play with enough terrain! About 1/3 of the table should be terrain and at least half of that should be LoS blocking and/or hard cover.

5) You already mentioned this, but Z is SO SO SO good at scenario play. Give models actions to interact, obey enemies to move them off of objectives late in the turn tof deny Turf War, Guard the Stash, etc. Take Tarot Reading and around turn 4 or 5 just move once into range of 3 or 4 markers and move them around. This has given me a 4 VP adjustment in games before because it affects ALL scheme markers, friendly and enemy.

6) One last thing, build you'd crew to the scenario. Some of the things I said may or may not be better or worse in different games. Other things I like to do include taking a model with a gun action (I use a Convict Gunslinger, Angel eyes can work) and obeying him to move and shoot early in the game, forcing my opponent to come  close and engage him, and then charging in with Graves or Hooded. It's a pretty simple bait and switch that usually ends in a favorable trade of models (either you kill a weak model of his, or a strong model of his kills the Gunslinger and you kill his strong model)

 

I could write more if I kept picking my own brain but that's all that came to mind so far. Happy Hexing!

Edited November 17, 2015 by Whut

[Brewmaster]

Some of my information applies to Grem-raida, but I'm assuming that the principles carry over.

1) Squatter's Rights and Turf War

Zoraida is the master of manipulation. I don't take her if murder is on the plate, I take her if objectives are in play. She is just AWESOME in the level of manipulation on the board. You want Outflank or Entourage? Take Raven Form and sort of keep her in the middle of the board. She is a positioning beast.

2) Try to bend the rules

Zoraida's ability to hire Living Wp4 or less models is always something to consider and try and break. My new favorite combo is Nurse + 2 Moon Shinobi. This ability has the potential of opening up entirely new avenues of 'wait what?" that will keep your opponent on their toes.

3) The Voodoo Doll

Never forget this little guy. Opponent has a beater in your face with an awesome damage profile? Summon a Voodoo Doll, Hem it to the Beater, then Obey the beater to attack the Voodoo Doll. For 1 turn's worth of ap, Zoraida essentially got the cool beater to hit itself, AND set up a great target for the rest of the Gremlin army to set on fire.

 

Hope this helps!

[MR TORGUE]

I always find running her with pigs/warpigs is great. obey them so they can pig-charge for (1) AP and then hopefully flip in a ram on your second attack so it can charge out of combat to another target.  (although make sure to take a hog whisperer...)

[Whut]

Warpigs don't really work out fluidly in NB Zoraida cause of the lack of gremlins. Rooster Riders though, even for 7ss, are incredible on paper. Haven't used them yet though.

[MR TORGUE]

Warpigs don't really work out fluidly in NB Zoraida cause of the lack of gremlins. Rooster Riders though, even for 7ss, are incredible on paper. Haven't used them yet though.

Tried some on vassal and their goddamn nuts - one of them in the middle of an opposing crew can be an absolute cluster-cluck if their not put down. 

[Brewmaster]

Rooster Riders are shiny and chrome in a Zoraida list. If you stick to one master, and need solid damage profiles, the Rooster Rider (and some luck) are GREAT choices.

[Ludvig]

McTavish is more solid than Bad Juju in my opinion. He also lets you keep your swampfiends deploying up the board. Try

him out, you might like it!

[Phinn]

"Zoraida feels somewhat fragile, particularly vs. snipers..."

I usually spend a lot of Soulstones for prevention flips.
I have done some math to compare spending various amounts of Soulstones on prevention flips without and with the Aether Connection Upgrade.
I have excluded the Red Joker because I wasn't sure how to count it's value, since it prevents all the damage, but that doesn't really matter because that flip would not be affected by the Upgrade anyway.

Without the Upgrade there is 1/53 chance to prevet 0 damage, 20/53 chance to prevent 1 damage, 20/53 to prevent 2 damage and 12/53 to prevent 3 damage. That is 1,81 damage prevented by one prevention flip on average.
If you spend 2 Soulstones for such prevention flips they prevent 3,62 damage on average. 3 - 5,43. 4 - 7,25. And 5 equals to 9,06 damage prevented.

With the Upgrade there is 1/53 chance to prevent 1 damage, 20/53 chance to prevent 2 damage, 20/53 to prevent 3 damage and 12/53 to prevent 4 damage. That is 2,81 damage prevented by one prevention flip on average, but you also have to add the 1 SS the Upgrade costs.
If you invest 2 Soulstones into such prevention flip (1 for the Upgrade, 1 for the flip) it prevents 1,41 damage per Soulstone invested - total of 2,81. If you invest 3 - 1,87/SS - total of 5,62 (you make only 2 prevention flips). 4 - 2,11/SS invested - total of 8,43. And 5 Soulstones invested - 2,25/SS invested - total of 11,25 damage prevented.

This means that if you find yourself spending at least 3 SS a game on prevention flips for Zoraida, it is more advantageous to invest one of those Soulstones into Aether Connection Upgrade.

 

"I feel like I'm crazy pillow-fisted... My synergies are shallow and at odds with each other..."

I would recommend McTavish.

The Swamp Is Our Home Ability: Friendly Swampfiend models gain the following Ability while they remain within 6: "Lay of the Land: While in cover, this model receives cover from all non Attack Actions."

(1) Hunting Rifle (Sh 6 / Rst: Df / Rg: 14): Target suffers 2/4/6 damage. This Attack ignores cover. This Attack does not randomize when shooting into engagements.

My Loyal Scouts: Immediately add 1 to the final duel total for each other friendly Swampfiend within 6" and LoS of the target.

(0) Hunting Screen Tactical Action: Place a 30mm Hunting Screen Marker in base contact with this model. The area 3 around this Marker is considered soft cover. Remove the Marker when this model takes this Action again.
Hunting Screen synergizes with The Swamp Is Our Home Ability.

(0) Gator Snack Tactical Action: Discard a Corpse, Scrap, or Scheme Marker within 3" to push this model into base contact with the Marker before discarding it and then flip a card which may be cheated. Apply one of the following depending on the suit:

: This model may perform a (1) Attack Action.
: This model heals 2 damage.
: This model draws 1 card.
: Push this model up to 4" in any direction.

You do not have to worry about not having enough Scheme Markers for McTavish's gator to snack on.

I also really like Fears Given Form Upgrade on Bad Juju.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Phinn

[Ludvig]

If high damage really is you thing you also have the  Illuminated, Nekima, Mature Nephilim, Baby Kade, Hooded Rider and Teddy. Juju really isn't that heavyweight.

[Mewens]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. Some food for thought, for sure – I'll definitely be trying out some of the models and upgrade options suggested here.

[EnternalVoid]

I guess it is time to throw out some of my tips and tricks for Zoraida.

A Nurse can potentially help with Pillow Fist due to one of their triggers making a model only able to do Ml actions but at the same time giving it +2 damage.  As Zoraida can Obey them into position beforehand you have some options there.  You can also Throw the same condition on an enemy model and Zoraida can Obey them to attack their nearby buddy for the +2 damage as well.  just be careful if they have place or push effects.

First, the Annoying Healing trick.  All it requires of Zoraida is to hire a Nurse and a crow.  Now normally while Nurses can do big heals, they paralyze as well making it a trade.  Wounds back for possible loss of activation.  Zoraida can get around that.  If she uses her last AP on an Obey and haves the Nurse throw medication at her.  When you declare the action you can discard the crow to add the suit and choose to tie so you don't have to beat her Wp.  That way even a black joker cannot make it fail and Zoraida heals.  As it is currently her activation it will paralyze her, immediately end her activation, and then Paralyze will go away.  So for her last AP you can have a fully healed Zoraida with no loss of activation.  So even if a sniper tags her for a decent amount of damage she can quickly put herself back together with a Nurse and any crow.  Might need a 7+ though to make sure Obey goes off.

Here is a minor McTavish buff.  If you take Papa Loco you can have him give McTavish the positive damage and make that 2/4/6 a lot scarier.  More so first turn if you drop a Scheme marker and have the right cards McTavish can either get a 3" push and a free shot, or a 3" push followed by a 4" push.  With Zoraida you can also get another shot from McTavish while he has the buff.  Done right and you could get 4 shots from McTavish first turn and if you have one Swampfiend is near the target he basically has Sh7 with his trigger.  Be an easy way to pop an enemy model that got to close first turn.

I often take a Beckoner and an Illuminated with Zoraida as it gives me a lure *with a push*, a fairly tough 7ss model, and when working together the Illuminated can be throwing 4/6/7 damage spreads around if the model has Brilliance.  Not to mention as the Beckoner does not have a gun icon it can shoot into combat without randomizing and does not worry about cover.

[lusciousmccabe]

I quite like using models with manipulative/camouflage with zoraida since she can get them into position without activating. The enemy is then stuck trying to deal with them while their defenses are up or wasting cards/ap getting around them. Woes that mess with activation order also help with this and with controlling your card draw from bewitch.

 

[MR TORGUE]

 

First, the Annoying Healing trick.  All it requires of Zoraida is to hire a Nurse and a crow.  Now normally while Nurses can do big heals, they paralyze as well making it a trade.  Wounds back for possible loss of activation.  Zoraida can get around that.  If she uses her last AP on an Obey and haves the Nurse throw medication at her.  When you declare the action you can discard the crow to add the suit and choose to tie so you don't have to beat her Wp.  That way even a black joker cannot make it fail and Zoraida heals.  As it is currently her activation it will paralyze her, immediately end her activation, and then Paralyze will go away.  So for her last AP you can have a fully healed Zoraida with no loss of activation.  So even if a sniper tags her for a decent amount of damage she can quickly put herself back together with a Nurse and any crow.  Might need a 7+ though to make sure Obey goes off.

Sweet baby Jesus... I never thought of doing this! Can't wait to try this with the local players.

Can Zoraida obey someone to target bad Juju and force a fail on their terror check to give them paralyze in their upcoming turn? or would it apply for the obey action only and end the activation - as it only says to take a 1AP action not an activation....

[Eclipse]

...

Sweet baby Jesus... I never thought of doing this! Can't wait to try this with the local players.

Can Zoraida obey someone to target bad Juju and force a fail on their terror check to give them paralyze in their upcoming turn? or would it apply for the obey action only and end the activation - as it only says to take a 1AP action not an activation....

The 1 AP is taken out of activation (OOA) and thus when a models becomes Paralyzed this way it stays paralyzed until next activation (or until cleansed, har har).

On a side note, can't wait for Nythera to end so I can try out Zoraida. I have been itching to play her with two Samurai... *demented laughter*

[Adran]

If Zoraida obeys someone and they fail a horror duel they will receive paralysis. Since this isn't their activation, it doesn't go away at the end of that action. It will last until they activate. 

[lusciousmccabe]

That's also one of the more reliable ways of making use of Coppelius and Weaver Widow's horror related auras. 

Edited November 18, 2015 by lusciousmccabe

[MR TORGUE]

fantastic news! thanks for the clarification people; the amount of times i've had to bicker over ruling with this is nuts - prob because its a massively easy way of locking down big hitters and i enjoy licking those salty tears of frustration from opponents...*slurp*

 

[santaclaws01]

With the Upgrade there is a 1/53 chance to prevent 1 damage

Aether Connection doesn't affect either joker. You need to prevent damage to prevent 1 extra, but the BJ prevents 0 damage.

[Phinn]

With the Upgrade there is a 1/53 chance to prevent 1 damage

Aether Connection doesn't affect either joker. You need to prevent damage to prevent 1 extra, but the BJ prevents 0 damage.

Draw Aether: When this model spends a Soulstone for a prevention flip, it prevents 1 additional damage.

[Ludvig]

You need to actually prevent to get the additional prevention. I would say it's the same as stuff making attacks do +2 or "two additional" damage. These effects need something original to add to, it was FAQed.

[Phinn]

You need to actually prevent to get the additional prevention. I would say it's the same as stuff making attacks do +2 or "two additional" damage. These effects need something original to add to, it was FAQed.

I can't find it though. Could you please post that part of FAQ?

The only thing I found is this: The Black Joker always deals no damage, so Triggers which are declared after damaging or while damaging (such as Critical Strike) are not applied.
Malifaux 2E, Jokers and the Damage Flip, page 47

I understand it as:

• You flip Black Joker for Prevention Flip and thus prevent 0 damage.
• You spent a Soulstone for a Prevention Flip and thus prevent +1 damage.
• You prevent 1 damage.

English is not my native language so that is probably the reason why we disagree.
Is it because of the word additional? Does it mean that you have to prevent at least some damage to prevent additional damage?

[Phinn]

Found it and you are right. Sorry everybody

M2E FAQ & Errata 11-1-15: Resurrectionists

7) Q: Can we get some more details on how the Nurse’s Hallucinogens Condition works?
A: Sure! The Hallucinogens Condition causes any Ml Actions which deal damage to deal +2 damage. So if the Action causes no damage, it does not benefit from the +2. However, if the model creates multiple damage sources with a single Attack (such as with Hammerfall) each damage source would also benefit from the +2 damage as it is a part of the Action.

Hallucinogens: This model’s Ml Attack Actions deal +2 damage. This model may only declare Ml Actions.

This means that the Upgrade is just a little worse than I thought. The conclusion is still the same though - 3 SS is the threshold.

[Ludvig]

No need to apoligize! It's not always possible to apply FAQs to other situations and I think Justin specifically cautioned against it in his blog but that is the ruling I was referring to. It would seem like the logical conclusion but it's not spelled out so a tournament ruling could go either way.

I'm not a native english speaker either, I have just marinated myself in miniature game rules text for a couple of decades  

[MagicGis]

Hm was it ruled what happens if the action has a damage profile but the damage is zero? So does 0/0/1 become 2/2/3 or do the +2 not apply because the damage dealt by the attack is not really damage and the new virtual dmg track is 0/0/3 ?