Hans - Ya or Nein?

[CapnBloodbeard]

Just wondering - what are people's thoughts on Hans?

On one hand his LOS isn't affected by effects/markers affecting LOS, can't be charged and has some nice tricks - slow, disarm (model cannot take Ml actions until end of turn), or ignoring armor / incorporeal, and reference the field guide to support it.  Smile you son of a.... to shoot off upgrades can be nice, but you have to use an AP to give yourself the chance of doing that, so unless you're putting fast on him you're using an entire turn just for a chance at knocking off an upgrade.

But, what I'm thinking about is the card factor - he seems like a very card heavy model.  Say I really want to not be beaten up by Misaki, so I want to disarm her.  I'd use a card to give myself the ram, then  (assuming she hasn't used 2 cards to make the action fail, which is a double edged sword), there's a fair chance I'd have to cheat to win unless I happen to flip a high card and my opponent has a bad hand, then just to declare Disarm I need to discard a card anyway.

So it leaves me wondering just how useful his extra abilities are, or if they burn through too many cards to be worthwhile (while I wouldn't reference the field guide every time, there are definitely times I'd want to).  That, combined with the fact that he's 8SS makes him an expensive sniper that needs a lot of cards that my other models could use.

Especially given that I often run I Pay Better, so my low cards typically go to that (a sniper having a focussed shot and a normal shot in a turn is just great).

So I'm left wondering just how useful he is.  Cool concept, but a little pricey SS wise and uses a lot of cards, particularly given I don't really have anything that can put cards back into my hand.

[Kadeton]

I've used him a lot, but you're basically spot on - you're paying a premium for his extra abilities over a Freikorps Trapper, so if you're not getting good use out of them you're paying too much.

That said, I've had fantastic use out of Smile in removing pesky upgrades from Henchmen and Enforcers.

[daniello_s]

Once I paint Hamelin I'm planning to use Hans heavily. Between Obey and I Pay Better upgrade I think he can be a true killer.

[jonahmaul]

I've only used Hans once and he got one-shotted by Nino on the first turn (and it scored my opponent 3VPs for Vendetta just to rub it in!) but from his card he looks very solid.  He goes down easily so you need to keep him back and in cover if possible but he has the answer for most things.  You're not going to stop Misaki being able to take attacks though.  They're going to dump the cards or burn their highest card to stop the attack (she does have a high def after all).  However, he is great at picking off Henchmen/Enforcers (some of which carry very valuable upgrades).  You don't always need to burn the card to Reference the Field Guide either as long as you have the high card of the correct suit (which obviously can't always be guaranteed).  Scout the Field is a strong upgrade for him too allowing him to have a shot at something completely out of LoS.

[zFiend]

I haven't yet. He seems like a nay due to how awesome trappers are and he really suffers a lot from wk3 and no from the shadows. But I will see about that once Nythera ends and my guild duty is fulfilled. Then it's Outcasts.  

[jonahmaul]

I haven't yet. He seems like a nay due to how awesome trappers are and he really suffers a lot from wk3 and no from the shadows. But I will see about that once Nythera ends and my guild duty is fulfilled. Then it's Outcasts.  

He's a merc so can be a friend to Guild too!  His low Wk sucks but he's got a huge range so shouldn't need to go anywhere generally!  There's some good movement tricks in Guild to get him going mind.

[Patzer]

He is ok. Lacking From the Shadows is sad, but he can still shoot over the good damn board. Hamelin, Jack, and Tara (Obey, I Pay Better, actions to copy his rifle) can certainly get some extra mileage out him though. Not having to randomize is quite overlooked too!

[Kirby]

I am not a fan of him.  He's decent at what he does, but like you said he's super card intensive.  Shooting off an upgrade from long range is nice and all, but he practically requires I Pay Better to be able to do it to someone hiding in cover since he doesn't have a built-in  like the Trapper.  For 2ss less the Trapper is more killy, and the best condition to apply to an opponent most of the time is Killed.  

[valhallan42nd]

I've used him in a Tara list with two trappers, and having six focused sniper shots on the first turn can be really fun.

[jonahmaul]

I am not a fan of him.  He's decent at what he does, but like you said he's super card intensive.  Shooting off an upgrade from long range is nice and all, but he practically requires I Pay Better to be able to do it to someone hiding in cover since he doesn't have a built-in  like the Trapper.  For 2ss less the Trapper is more killy, and the best condition to apply to an opponent most of the time is Killed.  

I Pay Better is a pretty solid upgrade to be fair.  But as you say the Trapper just seems like a much better option.

[daniello_s]

I think combo Hans+Trapper is a very strong option. You deploy Trapper to harass your opponent when Hans (preferably in LOS from model with I Pay Better) cover your advance - if something will try to tarpit/charge your model, it will get a merciless bullet from Hans which definitely won't be the nicest thing it can expect :)

[EnternalVoid]

The biggest thing going for Hans over the Trapper is his ability to shoot into combat and not randomize.  I have caused all sorts of trouble for my opponents before for the 10T snipers because I got into combat fast.  Had they had 10T archers they would not have cared but with the distance the snipers were from the fight they could not even charge in to help.

Personally I think having Hans stay to far back is a Trap, you want to get your opponent into the 18" range so he can choice between a single shot or a double tap while still being able to target those that you want to.  Of his special shots the two that jump out to me are Kneecap and Armor Piercing.  Both things that some of the other snipers cannot do.  Armor piercing is good for those targets that rely on armor +2.  Ice Golem?  Hans in range 18" can pretty easily knock 4+ wds off it even if it is in combat.  With I pay better it gets better as you can get a focus shot and a normal shot.  Kneecap is the generally useful one as slow on enemy models is almost always a plus.  Of course it becomes rough to do it to multiple models as you are likely dropping 3 cards *One for Reference the Field Guide and two for the triggers on two targets*.

Generally I consider Hans when I feel I am going to be facing a good amount of armored targets, or when I want to dish out slow to some brute *that is not a master*.  So he is rarely my first option, and more a possibility to be debated after what I feel is core to the list for the Strat and schemes.

 

Note: Disarm only works on Minions, no use again Misaki let alone any henchmen or enforcers.

[daniello_s]

Also many depends on the table. If there are long, nice fire corridors then Hans is viable option. On the other hand if the table is filled by the LOS blockers then Hans usefulness is very limited and definitely he will lose the spot to second Trapper.

Edited September 19, 2015 by daniello_s

[Adran]

I've seen him be a good answer to a Gremlin Pigapult list. 

Scout the field (to ignore line of sight), Focus, Reference the field guide to ignore armour, and you have a dead pigapult. Similar things will remove a lot of other support models. (Many Nicodem players seem lost when they don't have Corpse Bloat to generate the,m corpse counters for example)

 

 

[Dirial]

It's actually "Ja oder Nein". No pesky y in German. Doesn't add much to the model conversation, I know, but I have 0 experience against him. Carry on.

[daniello_s]

It's actually "Ja oder Nein". No pesky y in German. Doesn't add much to the model conversation, I know, but I have 0 experience against him. Carry on.

`Jawohl, Herr General! :D

[SpiralngCadavr]

I'm one of those who prefer trappers and 2 SS to Hans. Then again, haven't used him since I Pay Better, so the mobility might make him worth it.

[daniello_s]

I'll try him out this Thursday with Jack Daw. We will play Turf War and I expect to fight Von Schill and his Freikorps so a bit of good shooting with ignoring armor might be helpful. Especially when I torment him to utilize all those nice shenanigans Jack has to offer.

[Patzer]

I'll try him out this Thursday with Jack Daw. We will play Turf War and I expect to fight Von Schill and his Freikorps so a bit of good shooting with ignoring armor might be helpful. Especially when I torment him to utilize all those nice shenanigans Jack has to offer.

Don't forget that Jack can copy the Rifle too, should be pretty neat.

[daniello_s]

Yep, however I'm planning to be nasty to the bone and use Jack to copy Whispers From Beyond from The Hanged to shut down healing in Von Schils crew and then use Rusty's and Hans' shooting to finish them up :)

[SuperFly TNT]

I've never been impressed with Hans in the games where I've used him, so you can put me in the "nein" camp. i also prefer a Trapper for Shooting support.

Also, the Disarm trigger only works on Minions so not as exciting as it may seem.

[Hunt.er]

My buddy and me used him several times, and we both were dissapointed by him. Most time he was standing arround without doing anything important. His slow walk and the lack of fast are his greatest weaknesses. Expecting Sue would be a much better choise.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Hunt.er

[moxypoo]

As much as I want to like Hans, he's never performed well for me, and certainly never better than what a Friekorps Trapper could do.  It could be that I use him poorly though.

[zFiend]

I can't seem to justify him over a trapper and when considering him + an upgrade it's already getting over to "ah fuck it, deuce trappers SEG style!" territory and the choice is simple.

[jonahmaul]

I can't seem to justify him over a trapper and when considering him + an upgrade it's already getting over to "ah fuck it, deuce trappers SEG style!" territory and the choice is simple.

Some people do like to keep their friends though!