admiralvorkraft Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 The Guardian is better at holding territory in my experience. A 3" engagement range, 40mm base, and Ml7 are really good for locking down an area and it allows him to pretty much cover two squat markers by himself. I'll also baseline take him over Franc in Lucius and McCabe lists where I don't really care if anyone dies, and the Minion characteristic is a good boost. And the new Guardian model is way better than party-hat wearing, rusty-cleaver wielding Francisco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 And the new Guardian model is way better than party-hat wearing, rusty-cleaver wielding Francisco. Cannot agree more. I have to say, I used the Guardian two times with Sonnia and its pretty durable and Sonnia I think, with her Defensive Stance +2 (with a chance for heal) is durabe enough. So basically for me he is non-family alternative that doesn`t focus so much fire as Franciso probably would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 The guardian is the only model I personally consider needing a 1 ss drop in cost. Either that or at least speed 5. Its stuck a bit for a purpose. * To get maximum benefit it needs to be on a def 6+ model. Any lower and its usually too easy for your opponent to cheat higher than the benefit of defensive stance +2 allows. * most of the targets where such a buff would be great are quite fast, so the guardian needs to walk, walk protect. * simply getting as def stance +2 for a card (potentially if you want two models or don't want to fail) and 8ss feels too much, even when attached to a total tank of a minion. I guess I also look for offensive pieces in guild for area holding. 'Best defense is a sharp offense' and all of that. Hence why I would look at Franc and Sidir first, or even take from the other end and take a lawyer and rain de buffs down on them. Thoughts? Tried taking it several times and it never really achieves either being a tank or a buffer for a high priority target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyodee Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 And the new Guardian model is way better than party-hat wearing, rusty-cleaver wielding Francisco. Well that is why I didn't glue on Francisco's hat and just filled it with green-stuff shaped like hair. Looks much better that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyodee Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 The guardian is the only model I personally consider needing a 1 ss drop in cost. This is a bit more of what I was eluding too in the discussion, I feel like the guardian should've brought a little more to the table or should've been dropped by 1ss. If it was a 7 points model it still wouldn't be considered in every list, but I think you would see it more often in non-Hoffman crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i9haunter Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 I only run the guardian with my Hoffball, i think it is too costly/slow for any of my other crews. I would rather spend the SS on hounds or pathfinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 I think its the speed thing really... It could be great for taking and holding markers or areas but can't get there in time. Nimble instead of a points drop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 It's not bad really. It's just that there are better options. I think it's the same thing as we had going on in the Gremlin beta forums. There is Francisco / Francois but that doesn't mean they are correctly costed and they will distort the image of how that SS cost should function and what that SS cost should do for it's price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 The guardian is the only model I personally consider needing a 1 ss drop in cost. Either that or at least speed 5. I would have thought the Executioner was number one man on that list. * To get maximum benefit it needs to be on a def 6+ model. Any lower and its usually too easy for your opponent to cheat higher than the benefit of defensive stance +2 allows. I kind of get what you're saying, but defensive really just makes it more resource intensive to take the model down regardless of what your stat is. You might end up being hit anyway but it's more likely that your opponent will be stuck on a negative flip or have to cheat very high, which is still a protection even if you are getting hit. You can't really think of it like Franc's def buff. That can let you outbid the attacker, but you'll still spend cards to do so so it's better on high priority models you're happy to do that for anyway. The def +2 is really good on stuff you want to make a nuisance or that already has high def, as you've mentioned. I think its the speed thing really... It could be great for taking and holding markers or areas but can't get there in time. Nimble instead of a points drop? Wouldn't be very thematic. I think the Guardian is ok. I'd take him with Hoffman or Lucius and consider him with other masters. If you could blow 8ss on it without considering how it work in your list and strategy I don't think it would be a very balanced model. Francisco can be an easy pick for his price tag, but I don't think he makes the Guardian irrelevant. Franc is rare 1 so it's reasonable for him to be slightly more efficient and the Guardian brings a few things he can't like the massive engagement range and shield bashing. If you're going for an elite reckoning crew Franc is probably a better option but, if you want a minion that can hold territory and make it harder to kill some of your other stuff the Guardian is pretty good too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Guardian can also help keep Samael or Abuela healthy which, considering their damage potential, can be rather nice. Samael is slow enough for the Guardian to keep up with and, well, Abuela can order him to walk.But really, the 3" Ml 7 (coupled with his durability) is just as much what the Guardian is about as his protection mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Guardian can be speed up with on his (0) action, potentially getting him a push 4" forwards. Does mean he isn't healing, but early turns you probably want the movement rather than healing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 He's a minion, which means a few good things for him. Reactivate from Lucas, Commanding Presence from Lucius, Issue Order from Lucius, reactivate and die from Daschell. As a construct he doesn't have as much problem with terrifying, but runs into relic hammer issues instead. And Ryle can heal him, making good use of those defensive stats. I haven't run him, but I've wanted to try him with lucius for a while. His Defensive stance buff could be very useful for helping models avoid disengaging strikes, so if I ever build my minimal violence crew, he will make the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Unfortunately he's immune to Horror Duels, so Commanding Presence is a no-go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Unfortunately he's immune to Horror Duels, so Commanding Presence is a no-go. You're right. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Skornegy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 hmm, sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I will have to proxy it in my next game with Lucius. Unfortunately, he doesn't really fit for tomorrow's schemes, so he is out, but maybe soon, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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