Khyodee Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Is it just me or does Captain Dashel feel like a 9 point trap? Sure it sounds great on paper with two or three riflemen, but the games I've tried it out it feels like 9 points that could've been better spent elsewhere. Anyone had any good experiences with using Dashel to some effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've never used him in game, but every time I've thought about him I've come to that same conclusion. I mean, he's a passable damage dealer, and he's kind of tough, but he's a support henchman who only works really well with a dedicated support master... I'd rather have someone that gets things done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Uh yes he is amazing when used in his pigeon hole. He has one purpose. Maybe 2. Have rifleman focus for 0 actions so they can do 4/5/7 at 14" and if the enemy is within 12" and additional to attack. Effectively ignoring all sorts of cover. Also acts as an anti don't dome near the firing line. His baton does 2/2/3 but has built in crit and slow. So it's really doing 3/3/4. With a ram 4/4/5 and if you burn a stone for a ram get 5/5/6. So with limited setup you can have 2 focussed shots with rifle man ignoring cover and blowing things out of the water. And you can accomplice the rifle man to make sure target x is dead. Also can give out reactivate. Which if you need something dead a reactivating rifleman man that companions itself is really funny. So why yes he is completely lack luster in every other way. And without guardsmen to benefit from his Aura he is expensive. He makes rifle man and some times guards man 100% better. And combine that with lucious making the rifleman shoot more. Things go pop pretty quickly. But think about this if he cost 9 stones and gave all minions (0) focus people would take him in every single list since it would be amazing. Heck at 12 stones I would pay that price. But sadly only non-Austringers benefit. Poor birds don't like dashel yelling at them. For more added fun stick a Witchling handler around to add fire to the rifleman. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think if I ever ran Lucius in kill-oriented situations Dashel would find a way into the list, but if I want things to die I usually just point Sonnia at them... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Could resist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Could resist. Glad you didn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Calling Dashel a "trap" is a stretch. He doesn't really hurt you, but his buffs are pretty narrow in scope so he becomes a major list-building consideration. If you don't plan to bring 3-4 models with the Guardsman keyword (and preferably guns as well) you should either rethink the inclusion of Dashel or add more Guardsmen. That being said, there are quite a few Guardsmen and a number of them are quite good for their points (Pathfinders, Riflemen, Wardens and basic Guild Guards all become remarkably dangerous with Dashel on the field). I've run him a fair bit, and my favorite phrase is "The model that does everything while doing nothing" because he can have a huge game impact, but his activations usually aren't much to write home about. Also would it really have been too much for his pistol to have Critical Strike? I'm not asking for a built in ram or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Dashel's pretty poor in my opinion without riflemen. He's got very poor damage output and his abilities are nice but not amazing with things other than Guardsmen. With them, the focus and 2x positive twists to ignore cover or just get more reliable, or single double focus, or whatever combination, is a very strong use of 19 points in my opinion, and at that point it doesn't hurt to take more guards to benefit from his buffs. That combo has won me games, and has never felt like wasted space. I think it's pretty unfortunate that he was included in Lucius's box with some Guild Guards who he doesn't really help, since I nearly wrote him off before trying that other combo because of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've only used him a couple of times but definitely felt he was over-specialised with the riflemen. He makes them way better at what they're good at but does nothing to shore up their weaknesses. Also, with Lucius I find it kind of annoying to keep some guys in a bubble way at the back since I generally take him for movement based objectives. I did run Dashel in a Henchman led game and was pleasantly surprised. Guild Guard are surprisingly nasty when everything they do is focused and with Dashel they make a good wall of bodies between the enemy and your riflemen. Since it was a small game I was also able to keep all my guardsmen close enough together so all of their buffs and companioning felt really effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 People often forget the Guild Sergeant and the Pathfinder as well, they can be a nice little addition to Dashells firing squad. They also have fairly nice guns which can benefit from Dashell's buffs . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 People often forget the Guild Sergeant and the Pathfinder as well, they can be a nice little addition to Dashells firing squad. They also have fairly nice guns which can benefit from Dashell's buffs . Wardens, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wardens, too. As a self respecting Hoffman fan I could never forget the Wardens! They were mentioned elsewhere in the thread but no love for the Pathfinder or Sergeant it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Also would it really have been too much for his pistol to have Critical Strike? I'm not asking for a built in ram or anything. Woah Woah Woah critical strike? What do you think he is a sergeant? But I do agree he should have it. And built in crit Dammint but then people say he could do 4/5/6 (stone ram etc) And people would be all sorts of upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I once considered using a soulstone for but decided against it. True story. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm hoping he will get a dedicated upgrade to round him out more. While I don't think he is bad now, he is very static and a 1 trick pony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm hoping he will get a dedicated upgrade to round him out more. While I don't think he is bad now, he is very static and a 1 trick pony True, his uses are limited and the effective Masters he can work with are basically limited to mainly Lucius and McCabe however when he is with those Masters he is pretty awesome! A little extra something would be nice. I for one would like to see an upgrade for him that changes his focus from attacks to instead so he has more variety. I'd love to see Dashell running with a pack of Hounds or Wardens crashing into things and laying them flat out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm hoping he will get a dedicated upgrade to round him out more. While I don't think he is bad now, he is very static and a 1 trick pony I actually wouldn't call him static at all: his best abilities are all passive so don't eat up movement actions and have a decent range (to keep a few models in his bubble if they're moving too), and make it so models can focus attack while moving and/or get more accuracy while doing so. I'd say that he actually makes a firing line much more mobile if you want it- he just also makes double-tapping more effective in making attacks in general more effective, so you don't tend to move. He won't keep up with Guild Guards free scooting after objectives if he wants to attack, but most things can't do that, and he's still got his buffs when following them for the assist if you need to for a turn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He works with any master that wants to spend 19-24 stones on rifleman. As I said above a Witchling handler can make them shoot Flaming bullets which Sonnia and Sammy enjoy. Lady j doesn't mind extra support. Dita has her family. Dashel and friends love killing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Is it just me or does Captain Dashel feel like a 9 point trap? Sure it sounds great on paper with two or three riflemen, but the games I've tried it out it feels like 9 points that could've been better spent elsewhere. Anyone had any good experiences with using Dashel to some effect? You ought to take on Myyrä on Vassal and then return to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaud Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Whenever I see Dashel and his 2 riflemen buddies I know I have to engage that group with something or my models will evaporate. He's a one trick pony, but man, is it a good trick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKittens Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 My biggest problem with him is that the reason one takes him is inert; you don't "do" anything to get virtually every drop of utility out of him. Sure, sometimes he'll knock off a couple of wounds, maybe apply Slow once or twice. But, for a 9 Stone model, that's pretty much nothing. You're taking him for the stuff that doesn't happen on his turn, and I find that unsatisfying, whether he's worth it or not. Power without gameplay is poor design. I agree that an upgrade made specifically for him would go a long way to making him interesting. Maybe something where, if a Guardsman model dies in a certain aura, he can cast a spell to summon a basic Guild Guard to replace them? This would make him not that far off from Toshiro, his closest analogue... tough, doesn't do that much damage for his cost, sits in the middle of his chosen models handing out buffs, and propagates his ability to use them over time. You'd have Something To Do on his activation, but would keep his focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKittens Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Apologies, repost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 IDK about making a Toshiro clone, though I do like the idea of a way of reinforcing your Guard ranks, and I think Guild is probably the weakest in terms of summons. And yeah, I think you hit it: even if he's fairly strong in the right build, it's mostly just a passive buff, which does feel unsatisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 If he could summon, even poorly, he would find a way into every one of my Lucius lists. Whether that's a good thing or not is up for debate. The real hole with Lucius isn't in getting minions to do more things, it's making it to turn four with models still on the board. He's really bad at the attrition game and if Dashel helped that more directly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well, IDK, how much are people playing NB lucius with summoners? seems like that would be a pretty good reference point for seeing how bad he'd be with a summoning Dashel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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