Boremaster?

[Phinn]

I am considering purchasing Brewmaster Crew Box - The Closing Time when it comes out, because artwork and lore of those characters (Brewmaster, Apprentice Wesley, Fingers, 3 Moon Shinobi) looks beautiful and fun.

 

I read through their fluff, cards and PullMyFinger pages and at first glance it seemed that to play them would be quite entertaining. And indeed in Darguth's poll 'Who is your favorite Gremlin M2E Master coming out of beta testing?' is Brewmaster at second place (Wong being most favorite), but I also found a lot of posts about how terribly boring playing against Brewmaster is.

 

So I wanted to ask people that have played either Brewmaster or against him, if you would be so nice and share your experience. Not how strong he is, but mainly if you and your opponent enjoyed the game.

 

Thank you

[zFiend]

None of us have played with or against him yet as we don't have the models. But we have discussed him some and he seems quite powerful indeed and from some battle reps I've read it was basically just standing paralyzed the whole game for the opposing crew.

But like said, no experience.

[Math Mathonwy]

He debilitates enemy models making them useless. Some other Master might just kill the enemy models. The former is seen as more frustrating even though it is, arguably, less horrible than the latter. So I would argue that it is more a matter of perception rather than an actuality.

But yeah, as ZFiend noted (I'm from the same playgroup), no actual experience for us, yet.

[zFiend]

That is a really good argument.

I think that is the case, which into I might fall into as well. Though if he paralyzes models in the same amount as Vikkies kill models I'm not sure is either one of them a good experience.

[Malal]

I've proxied him so have got some experience with him and his crew (ish). I never take the Whiskey Golem or Moon Shinobi and only take Fingers depending on the strat/scheme.

 Playing him as a control tank does seem to be frustrating for opponents, definitely bordering on a NPE but I think a lot of that is the fact that most masters seem broken the first time you play against them. As he gets more play, people will be more used to him and not get caught out and it won't be as much of a NPE.

 

I'll echo Math too, it's completely counter-intuitive but people would rather you kill their models rather than neuter them for the whole game

[Jimbobovalsocks]

What does NPE mean? I'll also agree that the very worst crews to play against are ones that stop you from playing your game. I stopped playing pDenny in Warmachine for the same reason. Stopping your opponent from playing (which is what you are doing in effect when you paralyze half their crew) is boring for both parties.

[Durza]

I'd say having your crew paralyzed is more frustrating than being dead because they're still there, you just can't use them, where as dead is just gone, you don't have to think about them anymore.

[Math Mathonwy]

What does NPE mean?

Negative play experience, which means that your opponent is not enjoying himself and would rather be at a dentist or something.

I'll also agree that the very worst crews to play against are ones that stop you from playing your game. I stopped playing pDenny in Warmachine for the same reason. Stopping your opponent from playing (which is what you are doing in effect when you paralyze half their crew) is boring for both parties.

Killing them stops them even more completely. Also note that Brewmaster isn't all about Paralyze and his Drinking Contest Aura is an Aura - you can pull your own models out of it, move Brewie or whatever else. If the models in the Aura were actually dead, you could do none of that.

Compare Brewie to Viks who have, not an Aura, but an area of effect where your models just die.

[Adran]

I only played with and against him in the Beta.

He is a master that I can see some people would find a Negative Play experience, the first few times they faced him as they would not be allowed to dpo what they want wiht their models, instead they will stand there and heal.

If you know how to face him I don't think its such an issue, but knowing how to face him probably requires you to face him a  few times.

Personally I have no problems with him. I found him hard to use, but not a huge problem to play against.

 

It is a strange thing, but it does seem more annoying not beign able to use a model for a couple of turns due to paralysis, than takign it off the table because its dead.

Even when its your play decisions which have let your opponet paralyse you (and you can certainly keep a lot of your crew away from him if you try)

[Red Moon Head]

I've had 1 game proxying him.

Sure he's a master who doesn't directly kill things but his support sure as hell can!

Moon shinobis are stupidly good with turning -'s into +'s and choosing either df or Wp as rst

Take a performer merc for expunge and trixiebelle for poison dump and her gun and you're onto a fairly solid killing machine for anything that gets within 8" of brewy

In our game the biggest NPE was probably fingers not brewy. Him being able to take interact actions, while blocking enemies with chatty proved invaluable when deliver a message was in the cards.

Remember though brewy is only ht2 so his "drinking contest" aura is only ht2 and can be blocked by Los ht2 stuff.

(I buy on yer tiptoes upgrade though usually)

Also brewy really needs the initiative to go first for his drinking contest + obeys (hence trixiebell for me)

[rgarbonzo]

Having a lot of xp with the fermented one I can say that at first he may frustrate you but when you get what he is and what he does he will be a huge frustration for your opponent. Moon Shinobi are frustrating with flipping the game on its head via the to and vice versa. 

[flindo]

I think hes boring, the overall gremlin heme is killing stuff and the brewmaster doesnt exactly do that.

 

[Red Moon Head]

I think hes boring, the overall gremlin heme is killing stuff and the brewmaster doesnt exactly do that.

The overall theme is hilarity

[Red Moon Head]

I think hes boring, the overall gremlin heme is killing stuff and the brewmaster doesnt exactly do that.

The overall theme is hilarity

[Malal]

I think hes boring, the overall gremlin heme is killing stuff and the brewmaster doesnt exactly do that.

 

different strokes for different folks. If all the other Gremlins theme is killing stuff (debatable), then 1 more master that kills stuff could be argued as more boring, where as having the only master in the game without a damaging attack is conversely quite unique, ymmv.

[Phinn]

I think hes boring, the overall gremlin heme is killing stuff and the brewmaster doesnt exactly do that.

 

Having no damaging actions at all actually sounds quite fun to me. What doesn't sound fun though is preventing your opponent from playing. So I don't think that having different playstyle is the problem here, just having this particular one. I mean... at least for me, I am sure there are people that would enjoy that immensely.

[D6Damager]

On paper, I'm having a hard time seeing how he actually works. The bubble seems small enough to avoid. He is also very slow and requires assistance to get the poison combo off. He (and Fingers) also seem really vulnerable to being shot at.

 

What schemes and strategies (or vs. factions) would you pick him over other Gremlin masters? (not interested in using him as Ten Thunders)

[MasterDisaster]

 

but I also found a lot of posts about how terribly boring playing against Brewmaster is.

 

 

 

Try playing with or against Hamelin... total snooze fest! Brewie can't be nearly as bad as that. 

[rgarbonzo]

Take the Binge upgrade, this gives Brewie an attack that targets Wp and can strip suits, do damage, give you an obey or paralyze something. This also gives you card advantage since he casts it at a 7 to the avg Wp of 5. Want to do damage, take The Good Stuff upgrade. You can pull enemy models into your ball of pain, poison them then smack them with positives to attack and damage. Don't forget his base action to put things on negative flips, that is his bread and butter right there. 

[Red Moon Head]

On paper, I'm having a hard time seeing how he actually works. The bubble seems small enough to avoid. He is also very slow and requires assistance to get the poison combo off. He (and Fingers) also seem really vulnerable to being shot at.

What schemes and strategies (or vs. factions) would you pick him over other Gremlin masters? (not interested in using him as Ten Thunders)

He has acces to 3 obeys, Wesley makes it 4 and the open bar upgrade on fingers makes it an 8" push to enemies. That 8" ain't hard. But really you're wanting their lowest Wp guys in engagement range of brewy (or opponens models that don't flip for random in engagements) and get 3 poison on them (make them -4 wp when in range of brewy and Wesley)

Great for deliver a message (fingers stopping interact actions), take prisoner, squatters rights (again fingers flipping markers even in engagement and enemy not being able to do much but heal)

I think I did the math one time and with -4wp even a wp7 master only has a 39% chance (before cheating) of passing the wp duel. Get swill off and they're on -flips so no cheating.

I spend 1 turn using obeys, pushes and such to get the party started. Spend the next turn dishing out swill and poison.

Now there's 2-3 guys in combat with brewy on -4wp who have to pass a tn12wp whenever they want to do anything on a -flip.

Those guys are going nowhere. Spend the rest of the game luring people towards brewys party pit while moon shinobi soften the pack up and fingers goes scheme crazy while still staying in "Chatty" range.

Ideally you want close deployment but it can be done anyway really.

I took trixy and a whiskey golem. First turn activate trixiebell, reckless, gremlin lure x3 the golem. Since he's not a gremlin he gets pushed away 18" he was in combat with a big pack of stuff before he even activated

[Vorschlag]

It would be nice if we could know what is the problem with the Brew Master or when the expected release date would be since he is the last wave one master to be released and wave two masters are now being released.

[Phinn]

What I understand from other posts, Closing Time (Brewmaster Crew Box) was postponed due to hight inconsistency of models. Wyrd is also considering changing miniature manufacturer if I am not mistaken (Miss Ery being the first model done by the new one).