The 5 or so models you never use

[Kadeton]

My mate asked me to use one of his guild crews last night got to say lone marshal was quality almost impossible to pin down gets to move and make what is basically a focussed shooting attack if required. Good speed as well. Just send him after scheme runners he'll clean up then head up the table to complete some schemes.

The Marshal has been decent to good in the games I've played against it - nice mobile shooting, and it's no slouch in melee either. Kicked half my Rasputina crew to death in one memorable engagement.

[Justin]

My problem with the Guardian stems from the fact that he doesn't necessarily make you more resilient, which he used to -- he just increases your effective chances of being more resilient. Defensive +2 certainly is a good condition, but it doesn't increase the upper ceiling of your defensive capability so much as make it easier to reach it, which makes him feel extremely lackluster for an 8 point model for me.

 

Part of the defensive ability of the guardian is the simple fact that it's on a 40mm base with 3" melee reach at Ml 7 and is tough to kill. It ties things up.

 

Edit: Was ninja'ed...by you.

[Aramasu]

Part of the defensive ability of the guardian is the simple fact that it's on a 40mm base with 3" melee reach at Ml 7 and is tough to kill. It ties things up.

 

Edit: Was ninja'ed...by you.

 

Haha, yeah, his effectiveness as a tar pit isn't in dispute for me. It's just moreso 'is it worth the 8 points for this tarpit' and the answer is probably yes. Like I said for everything, I really do want to get more games in with both models that I'm disputing. The Lone Marshal in particular seems like a great way to pick off other scheme runners and make some lategame schemes happen.

[Godgolden]

If you are creative, the Guardian can dance all day, pushing, blocking, engaging and every now and then.. every once in a while... damaging something.

 

Hell he can even heal.... I love the Guardian!

 

*Eiffel Tower*

[DeleteAccount]

 

As for the Lone Marshal, I largely agree. It felt like they wanted to make the Riders are more distinct existence but they couldn't just keep Trick Shooting on the Pale Rider so they threw it as a castoff ability onto another model, put a few useful but not incredible defensive abilities onto him, and then called it a day. The combination of high mobility -and- shooting capacity is nice, but his shooting ability isn't particularly exceptional in a faction that can field terrors like multiple Austringers. I do want to put him on the table once or twice just because his model is sweet, though. Maybe he's more useful as a flanker on earlier turns and an objective grabber on later turns than I thought?

 

 

I put the blame for this squarely on the testers. Initially he was a melee focused rider that had his saddle gun to pile some damage while going close, I think he had the push attack push but with melee and + on attack and damage going for him. Can't remember what else, but he was looking juicy and different than the Pale Rider. People started whining that they wanted a ranged piece with a rifle even though they would get one anyway with the Pale Rider and the Lone just sort of lost his focus. I do think he is a fine piece, he can ALWAYS shot and it will usually hurt thanks to pushing out and gunning and is a great scheme flanker that can take care of himself.

[war_B00B]

Every model has a good use with different players. 

 

Models you don't see yourself ever using normally fall into 2 categories.

1) Models that don't fit your play style. There are plenty of models that just don't gel with certain play styles and can end up hurting your game because you trying to use them effectively you loose sight of the rest of your crew.

2)There is something you'r missing. I find a lot of the time if I don't ever see myself using a certain model I have missed something, whether it be a rule or some synergy that I can't quite see hidden away.

 

For example the Guardian, if you have a Hoffman crew the DF and high ML are a have to have with the power loop. If you think the Peace Keeper is tough wait until its rocking DF6 and ML7, thats down right frightening. Same thing goes for a Rail Golem Power Looped in, very worth the 8SS cost and the AP needed to loop them, as well as he provides an excellent body guard for your master and can keep most things tided up for a couple of turns.

[Therril_83]

The guardian used to be a model that soaked damage. Now the guardian is a model that threatens incoming melee beaters, but does very little against a ranged attacker unless being a LoS-blocker.

 

I used to always take a Guardian (capital G, as in the name of the model) in 1.5 when playing Sonnia, because she was a bit fragile. She is still pretty fragile in herself, so I'm still using a guardian (lower case g, as in the role), that deters enemy models from coming to close, as well as buffing her defense. The only real difference is the name of the model. It used to be named Guardian, now it's named Fransisco :-P

 

 

as for models I don't use, the governor's proxy is definetly among them. Another is actually the Peacekeeper, which I hear alot of people really like. I find this funny,because very few liked PS in 1.5, but I rated it highly then, with paired, semi-nimble, arachnid and flurry, it was a really dangerous piece. Now I find it slow and uneffective, as it's lost both the nimble, arachnid and paired..

Thirdly, I no longer like Nino. I don't see any place at all for him outside a family-heavy crew, which I don't run.

And lastly, Samael. I really really want to like Samael, and he can be incredibly destructive when you manage to let loose a rapid fire. My problem is he's so expensive and rarely get's off more than 1 shot, if even that, per turn. Only once have I ever managed to use rapid fire, after being pushed by an Austringer. My opponents are just too aware of him to make mistakes in placement when I take him.

 

All of my other Guild models do seem play, although I do not own all of them ofcourse.

[deValmont]

 This is really subjective based on the way you play, as well. For example, I have yet to play a Resser game where Jaakuna Ubume has truly earned her place, in every case I've wished that I'd taken something else, whether it be a Belle, a Fleshie or even a dog, because she's gone down far too quickly to be truly considered a tarpit. But I presume that's just me playing her wrong. 

 

  It's a similar thing with Sebastian. With McMourning I have had much more success with the Valedictorian as henchman instead of Seb, but I can see from other players that he is a highly valuable and rather undercosted model to have on the table, I just struggle to use him to his full abilities.

[Jimbobovalsocks]

For me it's the Scales of Justice. The target number is too high on his add a plus or minus spell so I feel like there's almost always something better I can do withan 11+. I play Lady J mostly and I just find that there are better things  can do with 3ss than buy the Scales. I've also been underwhelmed by the executioner so far but will stick with him. 4 attacks and zero wounds delt in my last game with him, and he's sllloooowwwwww!

[Myyrä]

I personally find the Scales quite good. I think 3ss is a bargain for extra activation and card draw.

[Aramasu]

I use him less for his +1 Willpower aura and more for the ability to filter out bad cards from your hand. If you're being cautious with your advance on turn one or want to improve your hand quality, using Defensive Stance to milk out your worst cards and then filling back up with the Scales can be very useful.

[LunarSol]

Honestly, a lot of the Totems could probably take up my Top 5, but they're master specific, so its not a fair comparison anyway.  A lot of them are ok (even the Scales iffy  ability has uses as a cheap deck filter) but could have probably gotten away with being 2 instead of 3; Scales and Flame being the two biggest offenders IMO.

[Makrar]

Compare most of the totems to say Old Cranky from Gremlins (Enslaved Neph holds its own tho)

[zFiend]

Compare most of the totems to say Old Cranky from Gremlinss

 

Don't compare anything to the Gremlin faction, you'll just get sad. 

[Uktena]

Don't compare anything to the Gremlin faction, you'll just get sad.

"faction"

[dgraz]

Honestly, a lot of the Totems could probably take up my Top 5, but they're master specific, so its not a fair comparison anyway.  A lot of them are ok (even the Scales iffy  ability has uses as a cheap deck filter) but could have probably gotten away with being 2 instead of 3; Scales and Flame being the two biggest offenders IMO.

Again, I think this thread is *mostly* just matter of opinion.......for every person that can't find a use for something, somebody else has a story about how good they are. *mostly*.......Personally I kind've agree about the Scales and the Proxy....but for example, the above post mentions the Flame........I love the Flame with Sonnia....it's a cheap, quick (Incorporeal) activation....that's perfect for harassing enemies and blocking them from getting to Sonnia or Sam....it's yet another source to put out burning....and, the big thing.....because it IS often overlooked, it has Dampening.....I've caught many Masters with a Sam Rapid Fire or three Flame Bursts from Sonnia without the target being able to use SS for defense or prevention.

 

For me, there's at least three of the four masters I use that usually get their Totems....Sonnia, 'Dita, and McCabe....Justice is the only one that I usually overlook the Totem........I don't have enough experience with Hoffman or Lucius to judge theirs (and I still don't consider McMourning and actual Guild Master )

[4thstringer]

So when I created this thread, I figured that we would all have pretty different opinions  on this one, because at least for guild I don't think there are any truly terrible models.   We didn't have any models in Wave one that needed the 0 pt upgrade save like 10T.  And I think all of the Wave Two will work out pretty well.

[Therril_83]

I think you are right, there are no downright terrible models. But the value of a model highly depends on your plastyle and that of your regular opponents. 
Say for example your opponents tend to take models that ignore armor, well then those models other players consider "very tanky with loads of armor" suddenly aren't so tanky anymore.  Or that your opponents likes to play bunched up, then a model that can deal blasts might seem extra valuable.

Would be nice to see a thread like this evolve into a "what non-obvious synergies have you found within the guild" or something like that. Discussing how you get extra usefullness out of a model that is perhaps lesser viewed in general. Perhaps by buffing it with something, or to cover a weakness of another model..

[LunarSol]

Yeah.  I keep looking to focus my options and narrow down to the best a bit, but I'm finding that largely impossbile with Guild.  Very little occupies the same design space with the same Master, so it does feel like everything has a spot right now.  Ultimately though, it does come down to regardless of whether or not everything is viable, there's only 50 SS to be had and better or worse, some will get left in the bag.  It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out when it comes to some of the less niche model groupings like the Wastrel/Guard/Hound/Watcher range.

[Shephammer]

I'm a little bit surprised by the lone marshal showing up in a couple of lists.

 

Every time I have a corner or flank deployment, it seems like my opponents jump all over 'a line in the sand'.  The lone marshal has been really good for me to get out to one of those sides and kill a couple scheme runners.  I can usually kill two unsupported terror tots/watchers/tengu/bayou gremlin by turn 4.  He dies if they send something over there to support those scheme runners, but forcing that action has value.  His value seems low in a vacuum, but with the guild models that I generally use, a model that can push and shoot and is relatively fast and can easily tank the attacks of any scheme runner is really helpful for me.

 

My list of models I currently own but struggle to find use for is.

 

Governor's Proxy (honestly I just haven't played with him in a game yet.  I owe it to the model to at least try it sometime.)

Scales of Justice

Nino (I used to play with him a lot, now I find that he hasn't made a list in a couple months) 

[Requirement]

I'm a little bit surprised by the lone marshal showing up in a couple of lists.

Honestly, I am surprised as well. I think most the points you brought up are valid, for me. I understand though that these list are super subjective and maybe I have just had better experiences. I tend to run him like I use to run the Executioner, a model that can put out damage but is also a huge distraction for the opponent.

 

This brings up two models I'm no longer sure of: the Executioner and the Peacekeeper. Neither seem to be doing as much damage for me as they used to, the Executioner is as slow as ever and the peacekeeper is slower than 1.5. I'm not going to stop fielding them but they certainly aren't top of my list.

[Kadeton]

The Executioner pays a lot for the ability to ignore defensive triggers, I think - it's a hugely powerful ability in the right situation, but delivering the Executioner to the right target can be a challenge.

[MasterDisaster]

The Executioner pays a lot for the ability to ignore defensive triggers, I think - it's a hugely powerful ability in the right situation, but delivering the Executioner to the right target can be a challenge.

 

I don't think it's too difficult, I tend to use the Pinebox Taxi Services kindly provided by the Death Marshall. They often make many of my Guild Crews and if I do include an Executioner then the Death Marshall's superior movement and unimpeded abilitiy make for a great little Executioner delivery system. I also often take him with McCabe so I can give him the Badge of Speed after having given a Minion Re-activate so he not only gains a 4" push but also gains Nimble effectively doubling his movement for one turn. 

[zFiend]

The 5 models I never use are:

Executioner - too slow and situational for its cost.

Lone Marshal - seems too high costed for what it does.

Governor's Proxy - rather take the stones

Peacekeeper - seems too high cost

These are at the moment. Might change though.

[Kadeton]

I don't think it's too difficult, I tend to use the Pinebox Taxi Services kindly provided by the Death Marshall.

Yeah, that does seem to be the usual way. It's just unfortunate that a Death Marshal is only marginally faster.

The McCabe hyperspeed boost is a pretty neat trick, though - I'll have to keep that one in mind!