Shephammer

Hello there, I just logged my 4th game with the guild pathfinder, I've played two games with Perdita and two with Lucius. His highlights have included blowing apart a coryphee and taking Taelor down, both thanks to the 'In the vitals' trigger. His lowlights have also included getting charged turn 1 by Coppelius and again by a young Nephilim. Both of those were clearly user error on my part. I have started noticing that I am creating a bit of an anti-synergy with the clockwork traps and the rest of my crew. Especially lately as I have been attempting to screen my riflemen with the pathfinder in the Lucius crew. I'd love to hear from you all about how you handle your trap creation. In all four games I've played with him I have soulstoned for cards until I got a mid to high tome for the trap, and I have made one every turn I could. There is nothing bad about them at all as far as the pathfinder is concerned, but the riflemen have had issues taking the shots they want while enemy models temporarily hide out by engaging the traps. It seems like it is a thin line between good blocking for the riflemen and completely negating their impact. Should the pathfinder move to another space on the board? Are there times that you choose not to summon a trap? In some cases I have reset traps so that I could open a clear lane of fire, but when my pathfinder dies, and he does seem to die every game, then those traps seem to just be in my way. Thanks for your input.

That is very cool to hear that beckoners work well. It makes sense to control enemy movement away from riflemen, but the 'not that kind of girl' trigger sounds pretty important in that example. What do you find yourself mimicking most often with the doppelganger?

I'm really starting to get comfortable with the way I am playing Lucius, and I've got some tips that might help you speed past some of my early pitfalls. I'm going to assume you've read the pullmyfinger entry multiple times. It really frames Lucius well. The box set is a good deal to start with... Lawyers - I haven't really seen the lawyers mentioned here, but I always take one, and in many cases I like two. I try to keep a lawyer somewhat close to my guild guard patrol, and a lawyer close to my guild riflemen firing line. They do a lot more than remind my minions of a worse fate. On the guards, they can get both members of the patrol hard to wound, which makes them absurdly survivable for 4 stones. More often than not, i find that lawyers tend to be in the perfect spot for a lackey swap. Not too far back but not too far forward. Guild guard - Lucius loves his patrol, a pair of guardsmen that fearlessly (or foolishly) push towards squat markers/enemy scheme markers/friendly scheming targets. It's freakishly easy to get schemes done with a Lucius crew just so long as you have a minion model (preferably a guardsmen or mimic) in the proper spot. Guild guard excel at this for me because of the disproportionate survivability for cost. Nobody likes attacking Def6 armor +1 models (that might even be hard to wound). Dashel - The henchman only a mother could love. In my last game, I wished that I had taken him, and I'm starting to really crave what that big jerk brings to the table with Lucius. But to really explore him, we need to jump ahead. I'm going to recommend some purchases that will really round out that box set, I'm only going to recommend M2E plastics. Guild riflemen - I always complain at some point during my Lucius games that these guys aren't austringers, and then, like clockwork, my opponent makes a move with an expensive and important henchman or enforcer, and then I do a companion activation and facemelt it on average flips. Tangent on austringers: Here is my take on austringers with Lucius, if I get some guild guard into position to scheme, Lucius can simply target them with issue command and shove in the tome. Instant deliver orders. Speaking of riflemen and issue command, a pair of riflemen sitting within 14" of Lucius can companion each other, focus/fire, focus/fire, then Lucius can activate, issue one command to each of them, throwing a ram in which repeats that, focus/fire, focus/fire. That's four shots benefitting from focus (getting the ram from the built-in effect) and three of those four shots benefit from a second ram from firing line. Min damage for that is 14! And there was only one enemy activation in the middle of all that. Austringers are cute, but that kind of output is scary. Now we can get back to Dashel. Dashel (again) - So, remember that 14 damage combo from earlier? On turn one, imagine each rifleman doing a (0) focus and then double walking. Then on the following turn imagine Dashel activating first and shooting at something or interacting while staying relatively close to the firing line. Now, each rifleman can do a focus/fire/focus/fire, and every shot will be benefitting from firing line AND an additional positive flip on the duel. Companion the riflemen, then activate Lucius one activation later using the same trigger on issue command. Total damage over the space of two activations on all minimum? 18. Pathfinder - This guy is great when scheming. I really like him as a compliment to the guild guard patrol. The triggers on his man-cannon are great, and he is generally in a good spot to get hit with subterfuge triggers from issue command. There are some things that I've tried and didn't really like... Hunters - I didn't hate them, but I found it a little bit harder to target them with issue command in some cases, and because of that, I tended to do more walk/commanding presences with Lucius. When I get stuck doing that, it is a lot harder on my hand, and the 'bonus AP' is split between Lucius and the hunter, rather than going straight on to the hunter in the form of a focus or an interact. I also found that the harpoon is an awesome gun, but I always want to activate the hunter early, and then I drag targets into engagement, and then my riflemen stand there looking dumb. Without any table-time, I have to say that the warden looks like it would be a fantastic replacement for the hunters for me. When they get engaged, they can push models out of engagement with a send flying trigger, they have built-in positive flips to horror duels, and their gun trigger is much more complimentary with the riflemen firing line. the scribe - It's more my fault than the scribe's, but I never get enough out of him. You can't issue command or commanding presence him, he doesn't benefit from elite training, and the condition removal is a little too specific. I think the game designer's intention was that we are supposed to What lackeys are for him before he has activated after we've been attacked in melee by something. Then accomplice him and do a flurry of glove slaps. Perhaps in a more aggressive melee focused Lucius crew that uses wardens and moves slowly across the board? Doppelganger - I was always jealous of the doppelganger when Neverborn players use it, but I think someone on this forum said it best. If you are going to put a non-minion in a Lucius crew, then it had better buff minions. That might be an overstatement, but it's a pretty good guideline to follow at first. Witchling stalker - I know, insanity right? Here is my reason (excuse?). They aren't bad, but since the soulstone cost of each individual model is low, activating a 5 stone model to remove a condition on a 5-6 stone model doesn't really thrill me. I can always get the work I need done out of my pathfinders and guild guards just through issue command, even when they are slow or paralyzed. And as for the Ml attacks on the stalkers, they are pretty good, but I don't really want to have to micro-manage my positioning so that they can benefit from elite training but Lucius doesn't get set on fire when they die. Something I haven't used yet, but I want to try... Beckoners - Sometimes there is a scheme pool that screams for heavy minions, but the board just has no LOS lines and/or you just know your opponent is going to be Mr. Waldgeist, or Sebastian or some other anti-ranged tech. I wonder if there is a beckoner/warden/guild hound Lucius melee assault force that will work. If anyone has tried something similar, luring models into melee beatings, please share!

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean throw the promises upgrade onto the peacekeeper, but to have the peacekeeper benefit from "promises made".

I'm curious which masters you take him with. A 4" push and nimble from McCabe was mentioned as being a solid fix for his biggest weakness. The only other master I could think of with somewhat interesting applications was McMourning, with the usual nurse/witchling stalker shenanigans.

Awesome, I totally get the idea of managing the space between McCabe and the models you are going to throw upgrades to. I'm really excited to try throwing all of that stuff around, But after using black flash, and then throwing one or hopefully two upgrades out there for a (0), what does McCabe want to do? I read your batrep about ten thunders McCabe and got a lot out of that so thanks for sharing that for sure. I remember you getting an intense amount of work out of a single ten thunders archer by abusing the hell out of badge of speed. I think I'll be trying to do that with an austringer right away. I feel like melee is a bit too dangerous for McCabe since his upgrade spreading is so vital to the crew, does that mean he is a netgun-first kinda guy (with some exceptions)? Also, do you take both the elixir of life and badge of speed in some lists? Or does that run the risk of using up too much of his AP? Thanks for the input.

I almost started a thread just like this! After reading the pullmyfinger entry I'm still left with a lot of questions about how exactly McCabe should be played. I play with Perdita and Sonnia mostly, and so the tactical decision-making is pretty straightforward. Kill stuff from range, let other models walk around and do stuff. McCabe has different facets to him. I've seen better pure support masters than him, and I've definitely seen better melee masters than him. I think this is why there are so many questions. Unless he is taking both the elixir of life and the badge of speed, it takes a maximum of 1 AP to do all of his support tricks. Do you generally spend the other two AP firing off netgun shots? Or do you spend those two AP on a charge usually? It's pretty clear that he has to be fairly close to the action so he can take back his loaned upgrades. I've seen a fair number of builds that are primarily ranged (sidir, austringers, thunder archers, etc.) Would it be smart to just create an aggressive gunline and have netguns supporting stutter firing sidir and some raptor strikes? Or is it smarter to throw promises onto a peacekeeper and heal it with elixir of life? Or, even better, are both of those plans equally good depending on strat/scheme?

I'm a little bit surprised by the lone marshal showing up in a couple of lists. Every time I have a corner or flank deployment, it seems like my opponents jump all over 'a line in the sand'. The lone marshal has been really good for me to get out to one of those sides and kill a couple scheme runners. I can usually kill two unsupported terror tots/watchers/tengu/bayou gremlin by turn 4. He dies if they send something over there to support those scheme runners, but forcing that action has value. His value seems low in a vacuum, but with the guild models that I generally use, a model that can push and shoot and is relatively fast and can easily tank the attacks of any scheme runner is really helpful for me. My list of models I currently own but struggle to find use for is. Governor's Proxy (honestly I just haven't played with him in a game yet. I owe it to the model to at least try it sometime.) Scales of Justice Nino (I used to play with him a lot, now I find that he hasn't made a list in a couple months)

Opponent: Neverborn 50ss Deployment: Flank Strategy: Turf war Available Schemes: Line in sand, protect territory, deliver message, assassinate, entourage I'd love to hear what your crew would look like. I have been focusing on Perdita as a master for almost all of my games. I have heard that turf war is her least favorite strategy. I'm trying to figure out which master should be the next one that I learn the in's and out's with. I've got the Lady Justice, Sonnia, Lucius, and McCabe crew boxes and I am more than happy to get the McMourning box set as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Lawyers have a reasonable synergy with McMourning, although you could argue that they would be competing for crows. Even if they compete, ranged poison application is something that could really make for a huge expunge. I might consider a lawyer if frame for murder is available in the pool. Slapping a pair of fees on them with a fruit trigger will reveal to you pretty quickly if it's their sucker. I also like that they are freakishly hard to kill if make them suffer is in play. Impassion yourself and pitch a card for the - to attack at Df and Wp6, that is going to take some serious resources to remove. I think guild guard purpose comes alive with the guard sergeant. It's expensive, but you could give the sergeant 'watch my back', and then the two guardsmen can accomplice each other. That helps close the window between patrols. Always on Df6 and always on + to Wp duels make a pair of guild guard uncharacteristically challenging to remove. A nice little activation chain would be for the first guard to walk 5" and interact, then the second guard to accomplice and walk 5 then 3. Then later on the sergeant can double walk to get them both within 3" and issue new orders to drag the scheme marker forward. If the sergeant gets two activations, that scheme marker is on the centerline for line in the sand. This module can drop that scheme on turn 1 and then rumble it across the table for breakthrough too, never having to use AP later to interact. Spring the trap and plant explosives become more doable here too. One could argue that a sergeant could do a faster version of that with hounds, but the survivability isn't the same. Dashel cranks up riflemen pretty well. Much like the sergeant/guard combo, the Dashel/riflemen combo is fairly expensive. But with the right strat/scheme pool, on the right table with a few dangerous firing lanes, A Dashel + 2x riflemen module is just murderous point defense. Activate Dashel and walk forward. Then double walk + focus on one riflemen while keeping the other in companion range, then the other can double walk and focus as well. Now you can trigger stand and fire to do 4 damage to anything that tries to charge the module. If they do get to fire while near dashel, both riflemen would get the ram trigger and ++ to the attack flip and a + to the damage flip, with Sh6, that can result in a lot of positive damage flips and with two rams already in the result, those two shots could be doing 12-13 damage together. The cop-out response is that one day there is going to be a terrain set-up, with a certain scheme pool, against a certain faction, where these models may be exactly what you want. In a vacuum, Dashel's abilities are too focused in on the guardsman type to put him in the "powerful henchman" category. The guild guard just happen to be in a faction that has guild hounds and watchers, so their scheming role can get overlooked. And the lawyers are this interesting 'damage over time' minion with very high survivability and some cute utility, in a faction that tends to just kill things in one or two activations. I think that lawyers can be valuable due to how they are different.

It's interesting that you bring up crews made up entirely of constructs/undead. There aren't any factions where you would be required to take an entirely undead force or an entirely construct force. And even in a fixed master tournament, every master will have access to living models, or at least spirits that are not undead. Kang is just one example of what I like to call 'theme stompers'. In guild there are masters whose design philosophy is "hunt neverborn" or "hunt ressers". If you play your nicodem crew right out of the box, then a lady justice player might accidentally fall backwards into a win against you. I've played with my Perdita crew against "themed" Pandora and Lilith crews, and aura ancestral and trick shooting just shut down and killed swathes of their models. When that same player comes back with a pair of waldgeists in his crew, the story changes. I'd say in a fixed faction environment, if you are playing ressers, have a McMourning moonlighting build handy, or a Kirai crew. Kang won't be the only reason you'll want to not rely on one particular model type. When playing with Kang, I like him. He doesn't blow my mind. I don't think he is worth 11 stones for people's challenge, but he often holds my hard worker upgrade. hard worker plays into workers champion, which makes him a very likely candidate for resser or arcanist matchups. Outside of those factions, I honestly like Toshiro more for the "I buff nearby models" role. His minions are much faster and can be much more accurate. Certainly better in matchups where you aren't sure just how many actual construct or undead targets you'll actually be facing. So I guess I'd say, diversify a bit, and work on taking out nearby models rather than Kang himself.

I'm eager to hear what some of the more experienced players will chime in with. But I can get you started. A witchling handler speeds up the stalkers, which is something that I find that they need. If you take the summoning upgrade and a witchling handler, you might want another box of stalkers as well.

I'm not sure if she is my 'favorite master for recon' but I learned a couple tricks from Joel's blog that gave me a surprisingly good game in recon with Perdita. I've been focusing on Perdita in every strategy, I've been testing the theory that each master can score 4 in every strategy, and while she does it a little bit differently than a minion heavy list like Lucius or Hoffman might, you can get a model advantage a different way. The bloody way. Even with an 8 model crew (with one peon) this has worked. Assuming standard deployment, put half of your models in one of your own table quarters, and the other half in the other. Then put Perdita into the no-scoring bubble in the middle of the table and then just skin her smoke-wagon and go to town. She can quickly remove the cheap and plentiful minions as they try and cross the table, and if anyone wants to take her out, they'll have to send their own models into the no-scoring bubble. Activation disadvantages are rapidly erased, especially because a lot of people focus on activation density rather than survivability in this strat. Played this way, it's fairly easy to get the full 4 points. You won't deny your opponent any of their points initially, but it won't be long against most crews where you'll be able to walk over the line and shut down their scoring. As for schemes if I was playing Perdita, bodyguard, protect territory, and outflank seem very achievable with this plan.

That was some great reading on those Lynch crews, and on the changes made to accommodate Tannen. Seeing as how this is in the 10T board, what models would you choose to add to this crew in a situation where you need some speedy schemers, and were playing 10t. For example, a corner deployment squatter's rights.

I'd like to piggyback some terrain clarification questions. Some are rules related, but some are just 'best practices'. On buildings. Is the general consensus to make them climbable? I have been playing with Nino Ortega, and I was wondering if placing a model on the roof of a building that was not climbable was kosher. I don't think that making a Ht3 building climbable really fixes the problem, as they would have to spend 6" of movement, just to raise the model vertically. Follow up question about climbable. Suppose a Wk4 model wants to climb a Ht3 building with the climbable trait. Could they end a Wk action halfway up the wall? How would you represent that? Vantage point LOS... the lines in the example picture appear to be drawn from the base of the targeting model to the base of the target. Is that the only line that can be drawn while trying to get LOS from a vantage? I know that you can just ignore blocking terrain with a Ht equal to the target, so I don't know how this would actually come up. If the terrain is taller than the target, I imagine you won't be able to draw LOS. Impassable seems like the best option for low walls, as this would cleanly prohibit a model from stopping it's movement on the wall. If you are planning to do two walk actions, can you ignore the thin impassable terrain for that break in the movement? Or must you stop just short of the wall with the first walk, and then walk over it with the second? I imagine you'd have to stop short, but this question goes along with the "climb halfway up the wall" question earlier. Just a couple more... In other game systems, a footprint is often used to denote a forest, and then removable trees are placed on that footprint. My habit is to just move those trees aside as I move a model through the footprint. This is clearly not supported by Malifaux terrain rules. The forest footprint would be dense, severe and soft cover, and the trees themselves have blocking and hard cover. This was taken from the typical terrain breakout in the rulebook. So does this mean a model can walk through the trees themselves? Can models be pushed through them? Terrain in malifaux is always defined by it's base, so when my trees are "blocking" the entire base would be blocking, not just the very narrow tree trunk. Is this how you all play forest terrain? For small little 1/2" terrain pieces that are difficult or impossible to balance a model on, how would you handle that? For instance a little tombstone. It's Ht0, because it isn't at least 1" tall, but if a model were to stop right on top of it, the thing would tip over. In this casewould you just adjust the terrain or use a proxy base to indicate where the model actually is, or would you give the terrain impassable+climbable? Thanks for your help, sorry to lump all of these questions into one reply.