SpectreEliteGaming

"Do nothing" sounds a lot like Kirai... if doing book-keeping is your thing The most immovable object in the game is probably a freikorps bubble. As far as passive control, Zoraida is king (queen?). If you love disruption and making your opponents rage/annoyed (think blue-black control) - try Jack Daw. If Jack Daw was a deck he'd be Mono-Black Discard

One of the best plastic boxes so far - probably the best. Those aboms are amazing. Rusty Alyce is almost too hawt considering how crazy she's supposed to be, if that makes sense. I always thought of her as a bit of a trainwreck... and dem leeeeeegs. The running waif is one of the best female mini's I've ever seen - will be seeing a lot of table time in an assortment of roles.

I see what you mean - when I see play or when I play it seems like Levy, Viktorias, Jack (and soon to be Brewy) are the most prone to omgwtf. a Viktorias board wipe is almost enough to ragequit even the toughest wargamers Other factions are more telling in their abilities - even Neverborn. They all seem to have a certain idea about them. Those damn outcasts though - nothing but a hodgepodge of ridiculousness

I counter your disagreement by disagreeing completely with your points, as it were. I would absolutely refuse to bother playing with a janky set of houserules, especially if they treated different masters differently. If we play short games its usually a big enforcer brawl or hardcore. I am not particularly fond of any suggestions. I'd play the game as it is with the idea that summoners are more powerful in mind. Knowing that summoners are more powerful, I would always take a summoner or a summoning henchman. That's why I suggested "both or neither" ... but honestly I've never played anyone who really cared that much. I am interested to hear playtests just in case someone does find a really good idea

Strangely... I thought that the Breach was in New York City, I must be confused with something else? That's what I've been telling everyone

Didn't really think about it much til now but I'm on the metal masters boat as well - almost every master I play with is a metal version. Alt Seamus/Nico are awesome and nothing beats using avatar Hamelin and Zoraida as a 30mm master either - they look great. They really put alot of effort into the masters and I think most (not all - Levy and Pandora, yuck and I wasn't a fan of Justice or metal viktorias) are better in metal. Most henchmen are better in plastic. I look at plastic McMourning and I really like it but I look at metal McMourning with his big asskicking boots and winning smile and I just cant keep him on the bench.

But once you have something... aren't you no longer anticipating it? I would say Jack Daw but honestly, I am so happy with my proxies that I don't care much about it. Lady Ligeia would be nice... I'm using Azalaïs from Hell Dorado with a skull replacing that... cat/demon thingy - and she looks great really (her pose looks like "annnnnnnd you can't cheat... annnnnnnnd you can't cheat... and you... and you... and you too!" while she laughs maniacally - just paint her in an ethereal scheme). I really wanted a Carver (or two) because I wanted to make a sack-head into a Montresor/Avatar Daw proxy (standing in front of the hanging tree - I have a Halloween tree from the Reaper line to put the actual Carver on). I'm in a good spot right now, honestly. I'll jump on the Brewster boat and I would like a Shenlong boxset because that's the only 10T specific master I'm even interested in. I really want an extra box of the new aboms to convert me up an Avatar Abomination Levy w/ Alyce because I am almost certain I will hate the new Avatar Levy as much as the last one. Old man on horse doesn't float me boat... and I really feel Avatar Levy should be crazy and abomination-like.

So I just opened my shiny new Levy boxset... I'm sure you know where this is going already. Wowza... Alyce's legs are 3x the length of her torso and Levy is even more apparent. This is not a bash on the style at all... I don't know if this is intentional or not (I'm guessing so or maybe another byproduct of the sculpting method used?) but I love this style - its so distinct and almost elegant and pretty looking but without being elegant and pretty... know what I mean? It all started with the Hanged sticking its tongue out - I always thought "wow that looks weird and cool - I wish they made more minis like this." It kinda has a Code Geass or Jack Skellington from Nightmare Before Christmas look to it. I'm not sure how others feel about it... but I really hope this trend continues. Like I said, its very distinct and I hope it will end up being another "malifaux thing."

I don't like McCabe. I bought him for Sidir and the Wastrels just look really cool. I don't (really) like Viktorias. I bought them for Student and Taelor. That's pretty much how it goes for me. A looooooong time ago I bought a Gremlin Taxidermist as an interesting Goblin proxy for Fantasy. Then I saw western Ghost Riders with coffins and zombie hookers and figured I'd have a look at the rules. Levy was my first master soooooo I pretty much bought a shit ton of stuff for that. My JD crew was mostly proxies (er, still is, right? I've been replacing proxies with slightly better proxies for a time now - Twisted Apparitions will never be replaced as my guilty - those are amazing even though they dwarf JD in comparison). Long story short - I definently buy for the masters (fixed faction sucks!) and sometimes I'm forced to buy masters I don't even want but I need the other models - its a good marketing strategy, lol. Arcanists and 10T are the only factions I don't play - not big on guild except for McMourning and Hoffman - and yet I still have a ton of Arcanist minis for Levy. I am more of a collector type player though, so there's that too.

It's the players not the factions, for sure. With the dual-faction masters splitting off players into different factions, there is a lot of spread and I think people like to dabble in a few different ones at least. For example, I play mostly outcasts and neverborn (purely because I'm filthy) and gremlins to a lesser extent... the only two factions I don't play at some time or another are 10T and Arcanists. However, I still play 10T masters in the dual faction (Lynch mostly - but hopefully soon Brewmaster anf I'm sure Shenlong will hit the table) and I have played Colette (she's purdy... I just pretend she's not an arcanist ) Honestly, this game stands far above the majority of table top games in terms of balance. I am really awestruck by this. If a couple of overepresented models is all people have to complain about then all I am going to do is deal with it and field those models myself >8)

It's surprising but you can make some damn good models out of metal that mask that "chunky metal look"... metal age Sue is fantastic. With 11-15 piece gremlins and 50+ piece kits in the form of whiskey golem and powerfist hannah (like... my god) plus the fact that you should be pinning their feet anyway.. the plastic kits are out of the world difficult... In fact, I just listened to the new Malifools and they were talking about putting a disclaimer on the plasti-kits warning that these are "advanced kits" or of a higher difficulty level to put together in order to not dissuade new modelers from the hobby. That is a great point. We definently need more plasti-stalker kits and absolutely no more plasti-hannahs. But that was a great point and that should definently be considered. No control of production in terms of sprue design is really my only major complaint about Wyrd - so I can deal if needed but it would still be a good advantage for newer gamers. A lot of the people who walk by while you are playing probably have no idea how much of a pain it was to put those models together... they look great to attract but then actually assembling could drive people away for good. I'm too much of a sucker to just stop buying but you know... think of the more sensible people, please. Heads should be one piece, gremlins should have feet attached, Yan Lo's beard... yeah.

I forgot to say thank you for this notice... got a Malifaux bag cheap... I've been using a Hordes bag with barely adequate cut foam (since it was for a different game of course). Thanks!

The kickstarter is about to ship soon. The deadline for finalization is up. You should look into the actual production runs of these things - they are amazing! These are without doubt the highest quality of bases I have ever seen and I can't wait til they get all the lines out. Also of note - Basicks has a great eBay store anf they are always on the cheap end since they are (from what I can tell) made to order and bulk shipped. From a huge supporter and user of Basicks products I can say that they are the most elaborate and creative base designs you'll ever see that are actually produced (the powerplant and biotech in particular are simply amazing) plus a hige assortment of some of the best small terrain features you'll find.... buuuuut expect to put a lot of time into cleaning them up and repairs - low production quality: lots of bubbles and certain parts are thin, break easily, or missing completely. These Micro Art "premium bases" are going to be the future of miniature bases, without a doubt AND (SPOILER ALERT) Dark Age already makes them (though, I mean, most are really boring in comparison).

If you brush on a layer of matte varnish without cutting (yeah, thinning with water) you will get a good matte finish with only a slight shine. I like the desaturated look though to be honest - so long as its not frosty - it helps me mute and give consistency to my models - but then I don't paint like you so you may still not like the result.

You're absolutely right about JD. One of the things I think most strongly about the game is that he is a top tiered master that suffers tremendously only from being underplayed. Regarding your discussion about being more "hitty" - I find polarizing yourself completely to either an aggressive fear heavy crew or a defensive tarpitty crew is the best options - give that a try. The most important thing to remember though is whether you play aggro/defense you are still a control master... you don't just go into a "hitty mode" heehee. My favorite master too, though I play Levy more. I just can not bring myself to bring a non-summoning master for Recon. If only more people knew about the awesome that is Daw. You play him well and all your opponent says is "omgwtf" haha. You win over the mind battle of opponents and frustrate them - way better than "tit for tat" annnnnnd playing disruption puts you into a better mindset so you never stray from gaining VPs because you're too busy smashing face or summoning, for example.

This is far too difficult of a topic for a house-game. At 35SS I would say Henchmen led and be done with it. With master led crews I would say both take summoners or neither take summoners. House rules of any other kind would be unneccesarily excessive. I just don't think you could perfect a system.

I vote for Vallejo matte varnish. Just the slightest shine so its not totally dead - this stuff is perfect. I've never used matte medium because I just put 1-2 coats of matte over 1-2 coats of gloss varnish. This is important: I find that if I cut gloss varnish it is fine and doesn't matter - BUT if I cut satin (for metals) or matte (especially!) I will still leave a somewhat shiny effect. Do not cut matte varnish when applying otherwise, applying with an airbrush works well too, Cutting with brush doesn't work for me - anyone else find this? Also, yeah - that glaze medium trick is great too - same deal with gloss varnish to "delete" the frosted look of too much matte varnish. Then you just coninue on as normal. Basically, you can get the re-saturated look wih gloss varnish+protection then just try again.

First of all, I love the post about how the one-piece metal minis are unbreakable - this is probably what is mostly in my mind when discussing this and absolutely my experience and no plastic can compare to that. I could throw those aganst a wall. Also - I've wargamed for +10 years - never broken a metal model - lots of bends, no breaks - them plastics break on any number of small thin pieces (spears!!!) and carving out/cutting down to be able to reglue means it might look funny - with metals its a slight touch up. I've never even seen a metal break (except for my mech rider that came from the factory with a broken off missing front leg! >8( ). I've even had a few pinned limbs that bent (at the sword or what have you) before snapping off at my joint. Also, Rathnard came up with an excellent point - I do mix and match metals and plastics - bringing the solid ones and leaving the flimsy fancy pants ones at home. Seating and pinning what .... 2 maaaaybe 3 joints is much more reasonable than assembling any model with piece count above 15-20. I really can't even see an arguement there, unless you've absolutely never used metals before. Not to mention that when you are finished modeling the plastics you are often still left with obvious breaks where the joints join that still need to be filled in with liquid green stuff or similar - like on those funny unneccesary ankle joints or nevk/head, or two piece torsos, etc etc..This could just be me because I spend a lot of time making sure the assembly is flawless - I lose my mind upon seeing a completed model with a mold line. Actually playing with heavy models gives me a much more positive grip on them and they hold themselves up better (no accidental tips or knockovers from a slight graze on the 30s or tall 40 bases). However, I am flexible enough to acknowledge that "solid" looking figures are definently stronger than fancier metal models, absolutely. Also, big 50mm models - plastic or metal are both fine in this case (especially with metal inserts or solid resin/plastic bases like micro arts or Basicks). Lastly, no comparison - plastics are way better for converting than metal. Wow... wut? I literally have a list in my head of metal models that are better or so damn comparable that for a BF sale price of 4$ you'd have to be crazy to buy a plastic for 2(or even 3?) times the price. Of course, I would still buy the plastics cause I'm a sucker and really like variation (who wants 10+ of the same 4 bayou gremlins?). Of course, the hoffman set just came out and I gotta say wooooooow those are stellar. But wait.... what the fuuuuuuuu is up with that female alt nephalem? As far as "continuing into the future" I'm honestly not pumped at all about Johan when looking at his M2E art - that original badass steampunk viking thing is sweet and using Johana over Metal Johan? How dare you Its the boobs isn't it? I seriously have a list though, not kidding. Of course, the new plastics are mostly an approvement - and they better be considering they are new and redone right? 100% though oO I counter your disagreement big time - and your last paragraph illustrates what I'm referring to pretty well. I support RagingRodian as that is exactly what I have seen and how I feel about this topic. It's just that the prevailing "ugh metals" is like... "<srs face> o rly?" This all or nothing thinking baffles me - especially when someone buys multiple plastic kits instead of say one metal and one plastic for differentiation. Maybe I'm just caught up about the whole thing because I hear it so often. Also, yeah the peacekeeper was a bad example, I think I was mostly focused on the whole "holy crap - look at all of these little parts" argument. The steampunk arachnid in metal is like "screw that" too though... so besides those two models in particular - metals are great to put together, I find.

EDIT: Double Post.

My thoughts: put unrelenting pressure on the summoner - you let them sit back field and do whatever they want you are being silly and playing into their game. Hit hard - you have advantage turns 1-2 and they have advantage turns 4-5 (3 swings - usually in summoner's favor - especially if you are not putting pressure). Get into position early and take out/hate on key models. Also, below 41 SS ... you should always choose a summoner for ezmode facebashing (moo haha). Summoning henchmen are soooo goooooooood. If you put the hate on the summoners they will have a much harder time doing what they do. Also, bring constructs! I've never found corpse marker hate beyond this to be worth it as opposed to just smashing face. As Joel Henry says - "play wack-a-mole" with the weak summons and you will stay ahead. You need to significantly change your "normal VP method" to put more focus on bashing face. Summoners like to get caught up in their summoning only to realize later that they didn't actually achieve anything and its too late. With sufficient scheme flankers and a beaty hate list you're golden. Honestly, utilizing outcasts as my main, I find that by declaring ressers, the opponent is already at a significant disadvantage. I'm sure that I'm not alone on this thought, either. That is all for now.

My point was made with competitiveness and efficiency in mind - there's a lot more to it than "this model is good provided I do this" - supporting a non-master model is like throwing all your eggs in one basket and that had better be one hell of a good model. This game is very much an exercise in list building the more competitive you play it - not unlike tournament Magic. Helping Nekima is a tremendous amount of points on a model that is already a tremendous amount of points. From what I have seen Nekima is very much her own thing - zergs and dies, plays it safe and gets hunted down or pretty much does nothing and gets picked off before turn three. Compare, for instance - deuce trappers, or illuminated, stitched, doxies or belles... pretty much anything really... or even interactions like judge and fransisco - instances like that are real effiency and that can be further utilized into effective synergistic crew selection. Or how about assisting Nekima compared to ridiculousness synergies like caster heavy Freikorps lists. More often than not you'll get comparable damage out of a puppet or dreamer bum rushes compared with supporting Nekima all the way up the board - who's just kinda tacked onto your list... right at the bottom... with all those upgrades... you spent building her before you even made a framework for the rest of your crew - which often happens... just like Killjoy. If you are thinking "how can I make it so that I can include this model in my list because I just happen to like it" then you are not thinking "what are the most effective choices to accomplish my objectives." Even just comparing Nekima to singular models like say Ashes and Dust and the Riders of comparable value or even Ryle and Lazarus a strongarm or Howard - for cheaper! Furthermore, consider models in terms of SS brackets (which models fill which point values best) and you would probably see Nekima waaaaaay at the end of the 10+ SS per model range. There is no comparison and you most certainly have better choices for those points. Nekima is just a big shiny fatty who will surprise new players a couple times.

Steamtrunk does make me sad

Oh dang, I never notice the scaling of the metacarpals compared to each other -they are like half the size on the right wing,aren't they? The right wing is still clearly drooped compared to the more or less outstretched left wing, however. The hoffman mini and hunter are both amazing. Now where's my Ryle? Thr new art for him looks reeaaaaaally scaaaaaary.

Recon @ 35ss will not be easy for JD. Monty-Hanged combo is expensive for this level and you are probably going to have to accept the fact that you will almost certainly not be able to ever hold more than two quarters at once. Furthermore, you won't have to worry about speed so much in this matchup so you can even opt for a more passive set up. Your focus should be on VP denial since you're playing a more or less disadvantageous matchup. I would drop monty and your guilty - at 35ss your three curses will give you enough torment to spread around and you need more help in the attrition of recon. Put the hanged with Daw and M'Lady then run a passive Jaakuna w/ drowned and nurse mini-crew to pull opposing models into non-scoring positions while locking up distract. That will keep your opponent busy. JD with distract is gold. Your second list is pretty good. After you play Daw a few times try transitioning into a more passive style of play to maximize JD's full potential.

First - about your list - it is a good generic sort of list but as you play more games you will probably see that JD is very much a finesse master - one of the most difficult masters to play in the game, for sure. You really can't make a generic list and play him "take all challengers" style and be very successful. To that end - I find he works best capitalizing on an all-passive disruption or all-aggressive control playstyle rather than just having some elements of both. JD is all about the disruption and scheme markers - neuter your opponent and annoy the hell out of them. You can really capitalize on card denial/discard and scheme marker heavy pools... and you should. Most of the time you see Daw lists they look like yours -big flashy scary things and most of the time other masters are better suited to that roll. Punish your opponent for the things they do rather then punching them in the face first. Take Daw when you need a scheme master and try utilizing and exploiting models like Crooked and Drowned. You know all those schemes that people tell you not to take? LitS or Spring the trap - yeah, Daw can do those real easy. Personally, I feel that most of the time you should be playing Daw passively. When I want to play aggro I go Levy or Schill (shooty). Taking Daw can really shutdown a killy crew when faced with an anti-kill scheme heavy pool. I am not very happy with Monty - Jaakuna is more solid, cheaper and synergies with a passive Daw. When you have the ability to take Jaakuna, Monty is pretty much useless as he is an aggressive tarpit with a target on his head - and you have better aggro models to choose from anyway. I am really hoping that the new asylum crew is tormented so Daw has the possibility of having a new henchman. Finally, if you do want to play killy Daw drop the control upgrades for betrayer and run a terrifying heavy list. Also, get a lot of practice in - Daw is easily an upper tier mastere who can shutdown a lot of crews when played correctly but is unforgiving when you screw up. Don't take him when you are learning the game, it can be very frustrating. Also - you have access to almost all models already in one way or another. Wicked Apparitions are amazing looking Guilty and Ligeia can be pretty much anyone - BF Performer if you want her to look pretty , haha. I am currently converting a Carver into a Monty/Avatar Jack proxy Honestly, I think I'll still be using my apparition guilty even after the new models come out.