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Theoryfaux: Asami


Skitt_Happens

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I got in my second game with Asami, and it was rough. I played vs Parker and lost by 5.

I had some real problems with cards and summoning with only 1 good hand despite what my opponent thought and in 4 turns I only had one cards that could summon. I am not sure if 10 Thunders have a lot of card drawing tricks or not but if they do please list them.

Highlight was when Asami killed Parker and an obsidian oni killed Mad Dog both happened on turn 3.

Opinion on Fane Weakness: It was ok, I was often summoning Yokai with it. It probably is a little more powerful when you have few cards to summon with but I just do not like playing from behind that much in the GG16 schemes. I could see doing it if you are take some schemes that score at the end of the game. The other mix side of this is I used what I summoned to models to keep ashes and dust from charging but Brian had some unusual luck and kept turning them into abominations on the second attack.

My major flaw was basing the schemes I took on parker being on the board and having that back me into a corner. I think this will happen a lot with him around.

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I had some real problems with cards and summoning with only 1 good hand despite what my opponent thought and in 4 turns I only had one cards that could summon.

You only drew one card 8 or better all game?  Or do you mean you didn't draw any masks?

As a Ramos player I've long accepted I'll need to be prepared to stone the suit for summons 3/5 turns.

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Yeah, I feel like I'm going to want to run Asami with a full or nearly-full cache; between the need for Masks and her own potential vulnerability, I feel like she'll need them.

As for Feign Weakness, I would never deliberately let my opponent get ahead in order to have a free summons, but depending on the scheme pool, it may still be worthwhile.

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You only drew one card 8 or better all game?  Or do you mean you didn't draw any masks?

As a Ramos player I've long accepted I'll need to be prepared to stone the suit for summons 3/5 turns.

You are referring to the summoning cards, if I had a good card in my hand it was often a ram or crow. The only masks I had in my hand where 6 or less. Eventually I got the red joker which I used to summon a Jorogumo.

First hand had an 11 and the rest was 7 or 8, not bad turn one but not a good hand.

Turn 2 had a 9 of ram as a high card and the rest where week, but I got and kept the red joker.

Turn 3 had four 11+ and that was a good hand.

turn 4 I had the red joker and everything else was less then 8.

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Yeah, I feel like I'm going to want to run Asami with a full or nearly-full cache; between the need for Masks and her own potential vulnerability, I feel like she'll need them.

As for Feign Weakness, I would never deliberately let my opponent get ahead in order to have a free summons, but depending on the scheme pool, it may still be worthwhile.

It is ok as an insurance policy, you get ahead by 2 I get a Yokai now I am up an activation.... I think Grasping strands, servant of the 7 dragons or recall training would be better. Recall training might be really nice if you are trying to rely on flips for summoning, which I try not to do and plan instead around my had for summoning.

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@D_acolyte I've been using Equality on Asami. Gives her some card draw and heals. Heals can either be just the 2 from the card, or if you've got extra scheme markers down, she can heal a ton after placing another scheme markers (I see this as a good setup for a follow-up turn).

Another thing to consider about Asami which came up in my game this week is that she can move ~21" in a turn with her Heavenly Design upgrade. If she needs to attack to get out of combat at any point she can also push 3", or pull a model (built in mask from Another Mouth to Feed) or use Reading Tendrils and hit the Pulled Here and There trigger to push 6". She surprisingly has a lot of movement.

For further card draw, this is why I suggested earlier in this thread to include Anna Lovelace, cause have 2x Rush of Magic is nice (I've payed a lot of Lilith+Primordial+Hannah lists). And as I think you know The Fate of Mortals is nice (but I find it expensive and competing for other good upgrades on her or the rest of her crew).

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More and more it looks like I will be buying Anna.

One person asked me what I thought Asami was like, I told them Seamus. They said so she as a really powerful attack, no if she wants to get any where she can to do what she wants to do. I tend to put her max range as 22"+ with Heavenly Design, the 6" is about 7" of movement then she can walk 5 three times or if you have the cards for it Reaching Tendrils to pull another model and trigger the 6 inch push though I would suspect this will not happen more then 2 time..

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More and more it looks like I will be buying Anna.

One person asked me what I thought Asami was like, I told them Seamus. They said so she as a really powerful attack, no if she wants to get any where she can to do what she wants to do. I tend to put her max range as 22"+ with Heavenly Design, the 6" is about 7" of movement then she can walk 5 three times or if you have the cards for it Reaching Tendrils to pull another model and trigger the 6 inch push though I would suspect this will not happen more then 2 time..

Yeah I really like her movement she can pull off. She can do things like Occupy Their Turf fairly easy. I will say I do wish she had a slightly stronger attack because it does feel like she 'needs' to be summoning which I don't love. Its a reason I didn't love Nicodem but love Dreamer/Molly/Kirai. They can summon but they don't have to summon. Her attacks are just lack luster enough that they're more for getting her out of harms way than doing much dmg.

Now if there was a way to put someone on a negative flip for Ht duels that would be fun (alas there is not :( ) 

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Yeah I really like her movement she can pull off. She can do things like Occupy Their Turf fairly easy. I will say I do wish she had a slightly stronger attack because it does feel like she 'needs' to be summoning which I don't love. Its a reason I didn't love Nicodem but love Dreamer/Molly/Kirai. They can summon but they don't have to summon. Her attacks are just lack luster enough that they're more for getting her out of harms way than doing much dmg.

Now if there was a way to put someone on a negative flip for Ht duels that would be fun (alas there is not :( ) 

Nurses can do it.  But I'm guessing you mean in faction...

Brewmaster can. Not sure if anyone else can give out swill. 

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Nurses can do it.  But I'm guessing you mean in faction...

Brewmaster can. Not sure if anyone else can give out swill. 

Well yeah, but I mean that I can take with Asami so she can get make it hard for the opponent to pass the Ht 11 duel form Devoured Whole. Right now I see no reason to 'work' for that trigger, it gives too many ways for you opponent to choose whats best for them.

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Well yeah, but I mean that I can take with Asami so she can get make it hard for the opponent to pass the Ht 11 duel form Devoured Whole. Right now I see no reason to 'work' for that trigger, it gives too many ways for you opponent to choose whats best for them.

Could be an idea for another oni or emissary upgrade for her, something that helps her in combat because I agree she really feels like she needs to summon.

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It's far too much work to be worthwhile, but you could take Sensei Yu  with Fermented River Style, and hope they fail the Tn 11 walk duel. An Akaname could use Spray Filth on him to up the Poison condition, but then you probably want Promising Disciple as well. And maybe a Terracotta Warrior to switch styles. 

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Played my second game with Asami today, some thoughts:

Opponent: Ressers, Horror Molly

Headhunter, mark for death (both), Hunting Party (me), Convict Labor (opponent)

Ended in a 4-5 loss but was a good game cut short (ended turn 3)

I took Nefarious Pack, Servant 5, and Grasping Tendrils. Immediately I regretted not taking Heavenly Design. That 6" place is too good. NP was on for the card draw but otherwise didn't come into play. Neither did the other two upgrades really, more to circumstance than anything. Lesson learned: HD always, the rest maybes

Betti is amazing at Hunting Party. It's her job. She hunted small children and destroyed them. A severe in hand is worth a VP. The no LOS charge will catch people off guard for a while until they learn what she does.

Tannen also punched above his weight this game. The anti-cheat aura plus Manipulative took the Valedictorian out of the game for a turn and a half. Glorious. I didn't even use his +2:mask aura but he will still be an autoinclude for the native defenses alone. 

Samurai with the movement upgrade did alright. RJ'd another Crooligan and got two vp for HP and HH. Ok, needs more trials. 

Lone Swordsman did his thing. Perfectly timed :tometrigger cut down a summon Punk Zombie nabbing another point. He died later to Molly. No real synergy with Asami, just a solid model in general. 

For my only minion I took a Jorogumo who tanked Molly and Sybelle for a turn but ultimately died without doing much else. He had a "gotcha!" moment with the 1ap charge but that's all. I should've taken two. Two and Amanjaku who could've hid away from everything. 

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Played my second game with Asami today, some thoughts:

Opponent: Ressers, Horror Molly

Headhunter, mark for death (both), Hunting Party (me), Convict Labor (opponent)

Ended in a 4-5 loss but was a good game cut short (ended turn 3)

I took Nefarious Pack, Servant 5, and Grasping Tendrils. Immediately I regretted not taking Heavenly Design. That 6" place is too good. NP was on for the card draw but otherwise didn't come into play. Neither did the other two upgrades really, more to circumstance than anything. Lesson learned: HD always, the rest maybes

Betti is amazing at Hunting Party. It's her job. She hunted small children and destroyed them. A severe in hand is worth a VP. The no LOS charge will catch people off guard for a while until they learn what she does.

Tannen also punched above his weight this game. The anti-cheat aura plus Manipulative took the Valedictorian out of the game for a turn and a half. Glorious. I didn't even use his +2:mask aura but he will still be an autoinclude for the native defenses alone. 

Samurai with the movement upgrade did alright. RJ'd another Crooligan and got two vp for HP and HH. Ok, needs more trials. 

Lone Swordsman did his thing. Perfectly timed :tometrigger cut down a summon Punk Zombie nabbing another point. He died later to Molly. No real synergy with Asami, just a solid model in general. 

For my only minion I took a Jorogumo who tanked Molly and Sybelle for a turn but ultimately died without doing much else. He had a "gotcha!" moment with the 1ap charge but that's all. I should've taken two. Two and Amanjaku who could've hid away from everything. 

As the slow Molly player I'll admit I was impressed. She only really summoned one thing but I could see the potential. We were both learning through our crews and made some mistakes but that's an early game for ya.

Solid crew and fun game.

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I'm a few games in now so here are my initial thoughts;

Upgrades:   Heavenly Design is an auto-take.  Equality will wind up somewhere in a lot of crews if only as effectively being Regen 2 making Asami more stable. I'm rapidly going off Nefarious Pact, feels too costly unless I'm sure I'll get work off the aura. There are definitely objective sets where where Feign Weakness will pay for itself, even if I never summon from it the disruption to an opponents plan is worth 1ss. The bonus summoning is just that.

Crew Selection: Crew selection feels fairly open. I don't like hiring Oni just because they're Oni, models that drop scrap and corpse makers when killed are more use.  That said I do like a single Obsidian for their Ca attack to open more summoning options up early game.  Betti's a real bad ass in the right spot, I'd need a real reason not to include her in a crew.

Summoning: I'll summon something every turn even if I need to stone for the mask.  Summoning starts off limited to Yoki, as they're the only one you can get two turns out of without markers.  Once models start getting killed and lumps ripped off them then summoning opens up quite a lot.  I wouldn't throw a 13 at a Jorogumo without it coming in on Flicker 3 or better.

I think its important to view summoned Oni as resource sinks for your opponent. They're disposable so you should be very careful about throwing resources into keeping one alive when you can just make a new one to replace it.

 

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As the slow Molly player I'll admit I was impressed. She only really summoned one thing but I could see the potential. We were both learning through our crews and made some mistakes but that's an early game for ya.

Solid crew and fun game.

You were not slow :lol:I've seen slow and that was not a slow game sir!

Good thing you didn't summon more - I could have won with more Marked targets ;)*makes sword swinging sounds with face*

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Had a game with Asami last night. It was Interference vs Titania with a very interact-heavy scheme pool. Here's what I took;

Asami w. Nefarious Pact, Heavenly Design & Servant of the 5 Dragons
Amanjaku
Ohaguro Bettaro w. Eat your Fill upgrade
Samurai w. Favor of Earth
Pathfinder
Obsidian Oni
2x Yokai
(6SS Cache)

Al in all it went very well for Asami. We both had terrible hands, but his was consistently worse from the sounds of it! In any case Asami didn't end up summoning as much as I would have liked. I only brought out Yokai and I never even got the chance to discard scheme markers to increase the Flicker (there were plenty around by the end, but none in the right place at the right time). 

Asami is definitely very card hungry. I honestly believe she can do fine by just summoning Yokai but even so, everything she does has a TN of some kind. I've thus far been reluctant to include models like Tannen or Lovelace just to help with that. It seems like a huge investment just for a bump in what Asami can do, but I might have to rethink that in future games. One thing I might try, though, is giving Asami Recalled Training. It only works for one turn, but it should help take some pressure off her hand at a critical moment. One more thing with Asami though - her Scheme marker removal pulse was a real nightmare for Titania!

As far as I'm concerned Amanjaku is there to dole out Flicker, and nothing else. In this game it kind of came in handy for keeping the odd Yokai alive a turn longer, but it didn't work as often as I'd want it to and the TN is high enough to be a problem. I'm going to keep taking him for the moment, but honestly I'm half expecting to drop him from the crew as I get more accustomed to managing Asami's summons. 

Ohaguro annihilated Aeslin on the charge in this game. In part that was thanks to a surprise red joker on the damage flip and a cheated severe from the second attack, but even without that I'm confident she would have finished her off in the next turn. That Flay with 6 damage on severe is nasty! I'm really liking Ohaguro's mobility and killing power, but to be honest I'm not quite convinced that her place is with Asami. As per above they're both very card hungry, so I feel like she'll be better utilised with less card hungry Masters.

Earth Samurai is amazing, as always. He was instrumental in helping to kill a Mysterious Emissary and severely damaging Claw, so that alone made him worth the investment. The negative is that he didn't do much in later turns, once most of the enemy crew was engaged and he was too far away to do much. I could have moved him into the fray with Asami but at least in this game, he was needed to hold a quarter. So that's what he did for the second half of the game. 

I've only recently starting using the Pathfinder, but he's quickly becoming a regular feature in my crews. In this game he held a quarter, summoned a trap and moved it into the way of my opponents models, somehow surviving the entuire game. Oddly the Pathfinder didn't do alot of damage to Titania's crew, but he forced a few cheats and basically did his main job (holding the quarter). The only other thing I'd say is that the Pathfinder and Ohaguro are BFFs. :D Being able to summon clockwork traps allows for some very easy placements for Ohaguro Bettari so I imagine that they'll be coming as a pair in the games where I take Ohaguro. 

I took the Obsidian Oni to support the Samurai with his heals, and to hopefully get some scrap markers down to summon off of. As it turned out he did really well with the former but not so great at the latter. He proved a thorn in my opponents side so while he did eventually die, I was nonetheless satsfied with the job he did.  

Whether you summon or hire them, Yokai are god damn amazing.  In this game I basically used my two Yokai to run up the flanks and place a tonne of scheme markers in the first two turns, more or less guaranteeing me Convict Labor. One of them sadly died before getting close to the enemy (I probably shouldn't have bothered with the extra (0) Interact), but the other was fast enough to then chase an Insidious Madness into the back of my board, denying my opponent from achieving leave your Mark. Basically the Yokai are cheap, expendable minions with the mobility of a Wandering River Monk and killing power well above their 5SS cost. They'll almost always die, sure, but so long as you're willing to spend some of that Flicker, they'll do some serious damage before they're gone. Basically, you're always trading up when you take a Yokai. ;) As summons they're great too of course. Summoned Yokai killed Claw, the Mysterious Emissary and a Widow Weaver. Even though they were relatively easy to kill they proved a consistent thorn in my opponents side. 

 

Anyway, that's my thoughts on Asami and her Crew for now. As a summoner she's the kind of Master I tend not to like playing. But at least for now she's proven to be entertaining! 

 

P.S.: I've done a writeup on the new 10-T models on my blog, in which I also discuss Asami's crew and the other Wave 4 Oni. So here's the obligatory plug;;)

http://rathnard.blogspot.com.au/2016/08/ten-rippling-thunder-fates.html

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Ohaguro annihilated Aeslin on the charge in this game. In part that was thanks to a surprise red joker on the damage flip and a cheated severe from the second attack, but even without that I'm confident she would have finished her off in the next turn. That Flay with 6 damage on severe is nasty! I'm really liking Ohaguro's mobility and killing power, but to be honest I'm not quite convinced that her place is with Asami. As per above they're both very card hungry, so I feel like she'll be better utilised with less card hungry Masters.

*apologizes in advance for being a bit self-congratulatory

This this this. I have brought this up a couple of times in threads and am both happy and sad to hear from a few people now that they feel this is an issue. Happy because yay my theoryfaux was strong; sad because betty with asami is so flavorlicious!!

I've really been trying to figure out a good hench replacement (if one is even needed) for Black Betty and I'm starting to lean towards Yamaziko. She doesn't require cards at all, her brace yari is a great defensive trick and she's great vs masters. 

Kang or Sidir might be a solid pick. Yu could be awesome too (copying insatiable hunger!!!) but pricey. I don't like toshiro or ototo. Not that they aren't good, just not into them for Asami. 

Brings me back to Ama no Zako and whether or not she's too card heavy for Asami... That focus +2 is really good on Ama. And she benefits from the 1AP charge still.

What are you guys thinking?

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Really liking Ama with her. Sure, she needs some suits for the fancy stuff but the charge and 3/5/7 always manage to spook the shit out of people. I'd probably use horse even more but since he's not out yet...

Sidir doesn't really add anything, not even with Promise. Yamaziko is very... Eh. I mean she's cheap but not what you're talking about when comparing a list of big units. Kang only against Ressers/Arcanists (and even then it's 50/50).

Toshiro's aura is, naturally, really nice too since it spares your hand. Also the extra focus is a nice plus. Shame about the summoning though. Competing for both high cards AND corpses is just too much. And I know it's an upgrade but lets face it it's half the reason why you tend to take him. Ototo I can see, much like Izamu, because he occupies a large area with threat (which, with good positioning, keeps Asami out of sight). I like to throw Mr Graves out as a honourable mention as, besides playing nice with Tannen, he's got a nice track for his price. But alas, the TN on that push. 

The Emissary might be nice with it's 4" aura and :blast's. Though Im not a fan of making him loiter in the center which is what he'll have to do if he wants to make any use of his aura with the Oni popping in. Yu I don't know. The Heavenly Design allows him to forgo silly things like walking, but the yetanotherTN on all of his printed actions, too, kills it a bit. 

I said it when the card was first revealed and Ill say it now; the TN's are far too much for what she gets for it. It feels like the stigma against summoners made them shackle her to the ground so hard she'll never even manage to stretch her wings, let alone fly. I like her concept but in practice she feels very reliant on lucky flips for anything but Summoning (Which I fully agree is something you should do yourself). She'll poop out a thing or two, watch it die that turn maybe the next, and then cross her fingers in the hopes she doesn't have to throw out an 8 or 9 to give someone focus. Compared to the other TT masters who have 1 maybe 2 TN's anywhere on their card for much better moves, I don't think she'll ever quite get there.

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I've played five games with Asami at this point. I've taken feigned weakness four times and have yet to summon from it. (the one game I didn't take it obviously I would have gotten a summon) 
I find Heavenly design to be almost invaluable. The 0 place is great positioning and I find people over look that it grants any model that is sacrificed (i.e.: flickers out) finish the job. I've taken set up a lot lately, spamming out models and then just letting them flicker away to drop copious amounts of scheme markers in central areas. 

Terra-cotta warriors may not be a bad pick to switch into a needed upgrade such grasping strands to gives penalties to charge near her or nefarious pact when facing Mysterious Emissary, Lady J, Johan, or Chiaki. 

I've taken Yasunori a few times. His 0 action allows him to look at the top three cards and reorganize them, so on the first turn at least if you can avoid getting into an interaction with your opponent, you can set what cards you will need to summon or even find cards for the Amanjaku to raise conditions. Plus the Yasunori is just lovely in most other aspects as well, but this along with Tannen make summoning easier, though I would still just plan to stone for the masks.

In terms of summoning, Jorogumo are delicious when possible, Obsidian oni are ruthless which really helped me in a game against Jack Daw, and they can also create scrap. Yoke are my go to summon though, as they get positives for charging, tons of triggers, a 0 interact and are fairly self sufficient with their flicker assuming you can get in a tomes. Haven't summoned any tengu or Akaname but I've been a huge proponent of Tengu since book 2 dropped. I realize people have issues with their survivability, but they are usually just hopping around in the sidelines accomplishing schemes. Asami is fine using her summons as her offensive actions and take the wounds needed to let them charge for 1. (they must be within 4" to do so, so don't try placing them the full 6" forward)

Really not sure how to feel about Amanjaku and Ohaguro Bettari. (took me a really long time to realize that that's who the aforementioned "black betty" was, as Bette Noir literally translates to Black Betty so I thought we were talking about different things) Amanjaku is really card intensive, require a 9 on both of his primary actions. He can up the Emissary's condition which is the reason I think it's so high, but I would have preferred a lower TN and have it simply increase flicker. He is very unassuming and so far my opponent's haven't been in a position where they have been able to take him down over other targets, which should count for something. That makes him somewhat viable for late game damage. 
Ohaguro is a nice heat seeking missile that can surprise your opponent by charging through forests, walls and models ,but her min damage of 2 means she isn't really assassinating larger targets. She's a decent recipient of the Fate of Mortals upgrade as she is in a very central location to pass out flicker and increase the crews card draw, though without any defensive abilities, she dies quickly. 

I've rambled on enough, but I really like Asami's play style and look forward to trying her out in the future. So happy with this book. The models are so creative and dynamic and add so much uniqueness to and already incredibly diverse game. This is a post for a different thread, but if you haven't tried out Sun Quang, do so. 

 

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Got in my first 50 stone game with Asami. I won, at the end of turn 4 he had no models left and the score was 4 to 2 and if we played turn 5 I probably would have been at 8 maybe 9.

I had:

Asami: Grasping Strands, Nefarious Pact, Heavenly Design with 6 stones
Amanjaku
Ohaguro Bettaro w. Eat your Fill upgrade, recall training and death contract
Samurai with favor of Jigoku and false target
2 Obsidian Oni
Johan with smoke grenades

I had: collect the bounty, covert breakthrough, and hunting party

My enemy had:

Von Schill: Survivalist, The Shirt Comes Off and Oath Keeper with 3 stones
The Steam Trunk
Hanna with I pay better and something else I think
2 Freikorpsmann
Freikorps Trapper
Sue and Johan both with Oath Keeper

He had: collect the bounty, hunting party and show of force

Asami did not summon anything but did a lot. she killed Von Schill and a Freikorpsmann as well as took a lot of shots as she stayed in cover with that df7. I am currently in love with Grasping Strands as it means I can play her more forward then I would otherwise which I think makes her better even when you can not get a mask to summon. Sure her attack is not great but it can still help, I also got crazy lucky on the red joker.

             Grasping Strands: Von Schill burnt his oath keeper charged turn 2 into Ohaguro Bettaro and had to change how he wanted to end his charge because he wanted his 2 attacks so that was a bonus. He then charged into Asami and just to get one attack. This was really helpful in effecting Von Schill power and maneuverability. I intend to play with this more often.

Amanjaku killed Johan turn 4 and was a pain otherwise. At one point Sue and Johan double walked to get Amanjaku engaged to avoid being shot by the samurai (good job shaping the field).

Ohaguro Bettaro killed Hanna turn 2 and was killed late turn 2 but my enemy discarded his last 2 soul stones to keep a Freikorpsmann alive. I call that a win. I am thinking I would really like her to live till turn 3 so I might switch out the eater your feel for betrayal.

Samurai got the raw end of the card flips when he went to fight Sue in hand to hand but other wise he shaped the field and did not die which are 2 good things with collect the bounty in play.

Obsidian Oni healed people up and did a lot of fire from the heaven making a lot of scrap for me, though none of it was used.

Only one model died: Ohaguro Bettaro

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I'm now around ten games in with Asami and have taken her to a couple of local tournaments. She's done well for me, hitting the podium both times (3rd/15 and 3rd/24).  Being new to both Ten Thunders and Asami I'm still making plenty of errors, so there's lots of room to improve my performance.

I'm now getting fairly settled on the upgrade load out I like for her;

As others have said Heavenly Design is an auto include, the (0) place alone is worth the price and the aura is great in a lot of places.  

I think a lot of players are undervaluing the 'when your opponent scores a VP' effects generally.  In most objective sets if your opponent isn't scoring 1VP a turn they aren't just losing, they're losing badly, at which point you're less concerned if you get this effect or not.

I've been really surprised by how much I like The Fate of Mortals on Asami. The ability to up the flicker on your models when opponents score has let me really keep things around that otherwise wouldn't be able to, effectively saving an AP and a 9:masks each time. The card draw comes up often enough to be relevant. I'm also liking Equality on her to keep her wounds up and mitigate the use of her (1) charge aura.

I'm now convinced Nefarious Pact is a red herring, almost all the condition removal in the game that would remove your flicker is situational enough that you don't need this, and I've found that drawing cards after Asami's activated is much lower value than I'd expected.  I'm also yet to be sold that most of the time Grasping Strands isn't just a tax on poor play, IE it's only useful once you've made a mistake.  I need to test that one more to be sure though.

I think their are definitely objective sets where Feign Weakness is good, but I've not bumped into one to really test that out yet.

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