Nicodem crew mobility

[Severino]

Greetings all. I've started playing Malifaux again after M2E rekindled my interest, and being a long time fan of Nicodem I've started up with him again. I only played a few 1.5 games with his starter box, vulture and canine remains, so I've never had much experience with him.

I'm having major problems winning games, and it seems to boil down to the overall mobility of his crew. I realised that his hordes of undead aren't very effective unless they're within 6" of Nicodem for his aura, and that means going around in a big blob. This doesn't help me when I have to contest objectives scattered over the whole board. Breaking up my force means they get destroyed piece-meal.

I also noticed that a lot of the schemes involve either lots of movement, or hard to complete multi-step objectives, or both.

I'm specifically having problems agains Lilith as my primary opponent. Nekima is an absolute beast in combat. I have to marshal my whole crew to defeat her, which due to Black Blood leaves my whole crew severely injured, plus she's been chaining Grow off of Black Blood kills to grow up or summon Terror Tots. To add insult, she only drops one measly Corpse Counter now. She'd sure make for one massive Mindless Zombie Also, one time I managed to poison Nekima with Fling Rot. Big mistake. Not only does regen negate the dmg, but now every time she activates among my crew it triggers Black Blood shredding all my guys

Any scheme that involves killing a model is no problem for Lilith + Barbaros + Nekima. Likewise any scheme that involves movement or deploying scheme markers across the board is also no problem.

Nicodem just seems like a really stricky Master to use, while Lilith and Co can just roam around facerolling with ease.

The couple of times I did win were because I managed to get the high Crows in my hand needed to summon a flesh consctruct/punk zombie or two and just out activate her, which happens rarely. I'm also annoyed at how they changed soulstone use. Spending a stone just to get a positive flip is bogus, you should get to choose suit as well. At least before you could cheat the right suit and then add a card. Now you could spend two stones and still be unsure of pulling off a summon.

tl:dr Having trouble against Lilith. Trying to mob up on Nephilim = death by Black Blood. Getting out manouvered when it comes to schemes/strategies. Please help!

P.S. We're playing 40ss. I usually run Nico (Undertaker, Laugh, Necrotic King), Mortimer (Shovel, Bloat), 2 Canines, Vulture, Punk Zombie, 8ss cache. I've got Necropunks, new Seamus box, 2 Constructs, Iron Zombies, Grave Spirit to draw upon.

[zFiend]

Put up the Belles from the Seamus box, they give you reliable board control with lure (ca 8 and rg 18) you can use them to move your opponent around as well as pull your own troops from ml.

Neuropunks are fast objective runners with leap, they have the possibility to move up to 14" per turn if memory serves.

Dead doxies which are beta atm might also fit in your crew for some control over the board with some pushing and giving out fast when they die.

[Dirial]

Remember that the max cache is 7 now!

Lilith has weak willpower: Rotten Belles are your friend.

[Severino]

Ok, I need to try out Belles. I've had some success with Necropunks, but they don't tend to fare well against Young Nephilim who oppose them. Also once again, if I split my forces to go after objectives, I get eaten alive by Lilith and Nekima while Barbaros roams around beating up anything else. I find I literally need my whole crew in one spot just to stand a chance at defeating them. Meanwhile a couple of Tots or Young go around achieving schemes and strats.

And what the fudge happened to Decay? I remember it used to be good at actually killing things. Now Nico is pretty impotent at killing things personally, while also being worse than 1.5 at summoning. The Wk buff was nice, but unecessary, and also removed some of the fluffyness of the miniature imo. He has a fake leg and a cane for crying out loud, Wk 3 made sense!

Max cache 7, didn't even realise. So they cuddle stone power AND reduce cache? I can't fathom why they made that change, since you'll be needing more stones than ever now.

Also I re-read the summoning rules. Essentially my summoned undead minions require the right suit + a high number and come in with half health, while Tots and Young come in with full HP and only require something to have died... me not understand :S

[zFiend]

You make good points.

Nicodem is a bit tricky to play propably. If hitting power is what you want and need then definetly look into the Hanged (they are really good but cost quite a lot). Toshiro might be a good add-on for his buffing on friendly models (but again, quite costly). Izamu the Armor might be able to take a few hits and land some of his own against Lilith (but as again, quite costly). Hiring out of faction as a beatstick Bishop works against higher df lower wp models as he can target whichever he wants.

[Mason]

I'm having major problems winning games, and it seems to boil down to the overall mobility of his crew. I realised that his hordes of undead aren't very effective unless they're within 6" of Nicodem for his aura, and that means going around in a big blob. This doesn't help me when I have to contest objectives scattered over the whole board. Breaking up my force means they get destroyed piece-meal.

It might be better just to focus upon less scheme-marker dependant schemes when you have them, such as Distract, Cursed Object, or even Assassination, Murder Protege, or Bodyguard. That would allow you to stay together in a little death cloud near Nicodem.

It's not a perfect solution, but something to keep in mind.

Also, one time I managed to poison Nekima with Fling Rot. Big mistake. Not only does regen negate the dmg, but now every time she activates among my crew it triggers Black Blood shredding all my guys

Note that poison triggers at the end of the turn, not during a model's activation.

I'm also annoyed at how they changed soulstone use. Spending a stone just to get a positive flip is bogus, you should get to choose suit as well.

I've found that with summoners, you're generally better off using your soulstones to add suits to high cards in your hand, rather than trying for the on your casting flip. The odds of lucking into a high crow are rather low.

P.S. We're playing 40ss. I usually run Nico (Undertaker, Laugh, Necrotic King), Mortimer (Shovel, Bloat), 2 Canines, Vulture, Punk Zombie, 8ss cache. I've got Necropunks, new Seamus box, 2 Constructs, Iron Zombies, Grave Spirit to draw upon.

Punk Zombies and Iron Zombies are pretty decent, and as others have noted, Belles are also pretty good. The Hanged can also be very good for neutering Masters and Henchman, so I would put them on the list of models to try out.

And what the fudge happened to Decay? I remember it used to be good at actually killing things. Now Nico is pretty impotent at killing things personally, while also being worse than 1.5 at summoning.

I've found that decay is best used to both damage enemies and to heal your own models. Remember that you can target your own models and cheat in a low card on their defense to get the Blasts in the middle of a melee.

Using Rigor Mortis to debuff the enemies while your undead take them out is also helpful.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Mindshred

[Adran]

Whilst I agree you aren't going to have much luck comparing Necropunks to Young nephlim, if you compare them to Terror tots, then they do pretty well. Leap can be used to escape combat without a disengagign strike, where as the terror tot sprint can be blocked

Summoning for the Nephlim is much harder than for Nicodem. Only Nekema gets to bring on new models, that thats on an upgrade when an ememy model is killed by an ability that does 1 damage or you buy anotehr upgrade or model that allows it to be from an ability that does 2 damge. And the Terror tot comes in at half health.

The Growth again either needs a Blackblood shamen or an upgrade and requires the model to kill something itself, or be near Nekema or the model with the upgrade.

They aren't insurmountable odds but it is much easier for Nicodem too look at his hand, and be able to garentee what he can summon for his AP (and possible soulstone for suit)

You must also remember your summons won't suffer slow.

Yes, Nicodem works best with lots of models near him, but it is quite a large area he can support, so you don't have to bunch up too much, its over a third of the width that his buffs spread, and he can summon to.

If Healign is causing you a problem (which Regen is) then decaying aura prevents models healing. As do hanged, but you would need to buy them.

[Mason]

Decaying Aura also prevents soulstone use for damage prevention, which can really toss a wrench into the plans of Masters and Henchmen you catch in its aura.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Try a nurse as well. I've found brining one in a list is often helpful. Lilith H8's seeing nurses on the table, her Wp 5 just screams for WP attacks to come in and twist her around.

Nurses can paralyze your enemies in a variety of ways.

"You're near to me and haven't activated yet, my nurse would like to buff you so that you get +2 dmg in your swings but can't take anything but ml actions. You let me? Good now I companion my belle and lure you off by yourself, see look nothing to hit."

Be careful using that track though against lilith as she has alot of repositioning effects.

[Repeter]

Fight fire with fire and bring Killjoy.

[Severino]

Ok, so last game I used a Rotten Belle... worthless. I can see how they would be really usefull... if I actually managed to lure something. All the nephilim seem to have at least WP 6, and since all my high cards are going to summon things, I generally don't get the cards I need to do anything else ie. Lure, hit/damage things. I haven't won my last 4 games now, it's getting depressing how easily Lilith stomps me

I also got absolutely murderd. Strat was Reconnoitre, I felt confident of winning that one, and was on my way to doing so. Unfortunately, Lilith had Assassinate and Outflank. Basically the Nekima/Lilith/Barbaros pain train rolled straight into the middle of my crew. I had one change to kill Nekima with all the 2 punks that I raised, Canine remains, Mortimer, Flesh Construct AND Sybelle. Basically she used soulstones, and because of some upgrade, ended up healing 2 wds each time, while all my guys got shredded by Black Blood. She also had some upgrade that meant every time I activated, I had to pass a TN14 Df duel of take 3 dmg. Needless to say, I did not kill Nekima, she survived with 2 Wds, but I basically killed all my own guys clustered around her. Lilith finished off what was left, including Nicodem, and all I had was a Necropunk, Belle and Canine remains that were trying to accomplish my schemes and strats.

At one point, the Belle was in a good position to Lure Nekima away preventing the TN14 duels, but failed. From then, my hand was drained dry trying to keep my guys from taking 3 Wds, and after that I failed miserably at everything I tried to do.

Decaying Aura definitely would've been helpful, I'll be taking it next time.

I'd like to try Nurses and Hanged, and Killjoy looks awesome too, unfortunately these new plastic kits have me holding off on buying any minis until the new sculpts are released.

So to recap:

* Basically I need all my high cards to summon things, therefore I don't have high cards to cheat duels or dmg or do anything else unless I just get a lucky flip.

* Black Blood - I usually end up doing weak damage, and I NEED multiple minions to take on Lilith/Nekima/Barbaros so they're all conveniently clustered around to get dmgd. I could try healing my blob with Decay, but they I'd still be triggering BB.

* Whatever that upgrade is that makes me take TN14 duels or take 3 DMG - this drained all my cards pretty quick just to keep my guys alive. So annoying and useful. What do I get? Some ability where the enemy has to start AND end their turn within the radius or take TWO dmg. So frustrating.

* Lilith's mobility - in one turn she can cover half the board. Given that the deployment zones are usually 12" out anyway, this gets scary fast. In mobility based schemes, I get boned. Don't even mention Deliver the Message. Nico has a decent Wk now, but I need him to sit behind the line buffing and summoning. I really wish Decay didn't get cuddled like that. He has no offensive ability.

Appreciate the help guys.

[zFiend]

Used a Soulstone and healed 2wds? Is he using the old version Nexus of power? It got changed because it was ridiculously overpowered.

To take down big models you really want the Hanged. Proxy them if you are waiting for the new plastics.

[Severino]

Just looked it up, so it only heals one wd now. I guess that's a big change.

Had another game today. I played my hardest, never made a mistake, had decent cards the whole game. Got stomped. 'Bout ready to ditch Nicodem at this point.

Here's what happened:

* We played Turf War, I chose Distract (big mistake) and Kill Protege, my opponent chose Kill Protoge and Plant Evidence (great, killing something and moving somewhere).

*I managed to kill Nekima (Protege) Turn 3 with the Belle after luring her and getting a good Pounce, but not before she'd killed Mortimer for Kill Protege with Black Blood and brought Sybelle and a Punk down to 3 wds a piece from BB also. She also summoned a Tot from it. Nekima would've died even earlier, but Nico was out of range for Decaying Aura and she healed 6 wds.

*Most of the game was spent with me Distracting guys, and then having her remove it before using Nimble to re-position somewhere inside the Turf War radius, or simply killing my models and then removing one of the distracts before the end of the Turn. (I need two models distracted to get anything, how annoying).

*Meanwhile Lilith zoomed across the board planting evidence in places I had no chance of reaching. When I sent something fast to remove the Evidence, she moved in and killed them. She also spent the second half of the game behind LOS blocking terrain and luring my low wp minions away from the Turf marker with wicked gaze. (Seriously, she doesn't need LOS? Total BS).

* Also, Barbaros kept any models that managed to get close enough to the Turf marker away by knocking them back 4" every time he hit them. By the end of the game, he only had 3 models, but that was fine because two were claiming the Turf the whole game, and the other was Lilith the Untouchable.

* At the end of the game, BANG she gets 3 VPs for plant evidence, while I had struggled the whole game to get 2 VPs from Distract, the stupidest scheme ever because by the end I did'nt want to kill his models to prevent Turf War because then they wouldn't be Distracted >

I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong. Lilith just seems to be a powerhouse on her own. Nicodem is supposed to have utility from summoning, but once I used all my stones he can't summon jack without a high crow in hand, and even then they come with half wds for some reason. I'm also ****ed that I can't summon a Rogue Necromancy unless I have the Red Joker. Never even used that model before, and I likely never will now.

The Belle was pretty useful this game, but unforetunately Lilith can do the same but better. I will proxy a Hanged next game and see how it goes, but if I get stomped again, I'm afraid it's back in the box for Nico.

Also, can anyone recommend a 40ss crew that could stand a chance in my situation?

[Mxbedlam]

Some masters are just a solid counter for others. Ive had a hard time with nico versus lilith but I switched to a more defensive mcmourning and schemes like bodyguard and protect territory and ive had more luck. Flesh Construct poison bombs blow her crew to bits.

[zFiend]

I can't look up a list for you now as I am not home, but I'll try tonight. Now I'm going to have to wing it.

Hanged definitely 9ss

Bete Noire 8ss (I haven't played her enough but her playstyle could work here. Save a 10 card on hand and she's unkillable and can paralyze on hit)

2x Belle 's

Mortimer with upgrades

Nicodem with upgrades

Full ss cache

If you can find space maybe consider Toshiro as he buffs up models. Also how does he manage to share so much black blood, doesn't it affect only 1"?

On turf war I'd try summoning dead doxies as in death they give out fast and flesh golems to take and share pain. But now I gotta continue help my sister move.

[IamW]

If you want to summon a Rogue Necro I recommend taking the "Spare Parts" Upgrade out of Wave 2. It lets you summon Guild Autopsies or the RN with full health (although you'll need 4 CCs for the RN).

You should really try to get a Hanged up for your Games. (1)Whispers from Beyond is so good against Nekima, she wont heal anything back up when hit by it unless your opponent has something to strip Conditions from models. Furthermore their Terror shennanigans should do wonders against the low WP Lilith.

Although situational dont forget about Nicos Embrace Death which makes your summoning way easier (although it'll cost you your precious CCs).

Can you write up your lists and the list of your opponent for us?

Hope I could help a little.

[Tiny]

Just looked it up, so it only heals one wd now. I guess that's a big change.

Had another game today. I played my hardest, never made a mistake, had decent cards the whole game. Got stomped. 'Bout ready to ditch Nicodem at this point.

I dont think that you didnt make any mistakes from what i've read on, so i think that type of thinking will be self defeating as you'll keep making the same mistakes not thinking they are mistakes.

Here's what happened:

* We played Turf War, I chose Distract (big mistake) and Kill Protege, my opponent chose Kill Protoge and Plant Evidence (great, killing something and moving somewhere).

Were either of his schemes announced? its not really obvious from what you've said

*I managed to kill Nekima (Protege) Turn 3 with the Belle after luring her and getting a good Pounce, but not before she'd killed Mortimer for Kill Protege with Black Blood and brought Sybelle and a Punk down to 3 wds a piece from BB also. She also summoned a Tot from it. Nekima would've died even earlier, but Nico was out of range for Decaying Aura and she healed 6 wds.

Why was mortimer within an inch of nekima if you're the one dictating terms of the engagement due to lure? Also why did you let him die and not use a soulstone to prevent the damage? Decaying Aura on nico seems like a mistake as he wants to play in the brick but at the back of it, generally with the big hitters within 5-6inches of him but far enough back that he isnt threatened by the enemy crew. And most importantly it wastes a precious upgrade slot.

A better option is to put the Decaying aura on Sybelle(in the crew you've alluded to) as she'll be usually either in base contact with a belle or extremely close. Models getting down to 3 wds shouldnt be a problem for nico especially undead ones,as they can go back to full hp immediately by discarding a corpse counter (like the one nekima dropped)

*Most of the game was spent with me Distracting guys, and then having her remove it before using Nimble to re-position somewhere inside the Turf War radius, or simply killing my models and then removing one of the distracts before the end of the Turn. (I need two models distracted to get anything, how annoying).

By distracting guys it seems like you're just distracting barbaros as not a lot else has nimble in a lilith crew. If you know barbaros will just remove distract when he activates why dont you wait until he activates to distract him or distract him and put slow on him with nico either of these options give you barbaros with distract on him at the end of the turn.

*Meanwhile Lilith zoomed across the board planting evidence in places I had no chance of reaching. When I sent something fast to remove the Evidence, she moved in and killed them. She also spent the second half of the game behind LOS blocking terrain and luring my low wp minions away from the Turf marker with wicked gaze. (Seriously, she doesn't need LOS? Total BS).

As a resser player with access to any resser minion model via reanimator no where on the board is safe for evidence markers, you can summon necropunks who can leap anywhere they want and clean up the markers for one(obviously no interacts the turn they are summoned) . If she's behind terrain doing that upgrade lure she's not beating you up. And if you position right with nico/vulture your minions are immune to slow meaning you're only taking, 1/2/3 dmg on a negative flip due to your (probably) hard to wound. Which is basically making lilith do 3 wds a turn with all 3 AP. I would love to play against a lilith doing that.

* Also, Barbaros kept any models that managed to get close enough to the Turf marker away by knocking them back 4" every time he hit them. By the end of the game, he only had 3 models, but that was fine because two were claiming the Turf the whole game, and the other was Lilith the Untouchable.

Ok well i take it you distracted once, he removed it an nimbled and you stopped distracting for him to be able to melee at all? I'm struggling to picture how you have you minions placed to not be able to score turf war each turn with nico as he basically operates in a brick of death type thing, where the belles lure something into the meat grinder, it dies drops a corpse and the brick gets bigger.

* At the end of the game, BANG she gets 3 VPs for plant evidence, while I had struggled the whole game to get 2 VPs from Distract, the stupidest scheme ever because by the end I did'nt want to kill his models to prevent Turf War because then they wouldn't be Distracted >

I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong. Lilith just seems to be a powerhouse on her own. Nicodem is supposed to have utility from summoning, but once I used all my stones he can't summon jack without a high crow in hand, and even then they come with half wds for some reason. I'm also ****ed that I can't summon a Rogue Necromancy unless I have the Red Joker. Never even used that model before, and I likely never will now.

What exactly are you spending stones on? How many stones did you have in the game? You probably want 6-7 stones with nico as he can get suits when he wants and also prevent dmg on the henchmen you had. The summons come with half wounds because they wont be slow and you can heal them with ease. Also with the rogue necromancy you can summon it at all with reanimated as its an enforcer not a minion, but you dont need to, ressers minions are far far more specialised than other factions, so you just summon the right tool for the job and its easy! The trick is knowing which minion to summon, when to summon it and when not to summon and just buff your crew/debuff the enemy crew and heal.

The Belle was pretty useful this game, but unforetunately Lilith can do the same but better. I will proxy a Hanged next game and see how it goes, but if I get stomped again, I'm afraid it's back in the box for Nico.

Belles are always amazing, IMHO lure is the best spell in the game, and we do it better than anyone else Ca8!!

Also, can anyone recommend a 40ss crew that could stand a chance in my situation?

My advice would be dont get down on nico, he's an absolute power house, with a few tweeks you'll see a lot more success, most of it being positioning of your master and some better soulstone usage/upgrade choices.

Not sure what upgrades you're taking with nico but the 3 i'll almost always take are maniacal laugh, undertaker and shadow embrace.

What this does is the following, with maniacal laugh you obviously get activation control meaning your opponent is basically sitting there watching you take him apart at the end of every turn, and the combination of maniacal laugh and undertaker means that every time you summon a model or discard a corpse counter for whatever reason you get a card(have to be within 6 so work on your positioning again).

Shadow embrace is obvious, extra healing! You have mortimer that can throw out poison on your own models to heal, also nurses can do the melee attack for zero dmg but 4 poison, also note that its friendly models not friendly undead. As a result my first turn with the nurse (nurses are great if you havent realised by now) will be 2 attacks 1 on nico and 1 or morty, poison 4 on both, morty then heals 1 when he activates (regeneration) and 1 at the end of the turn (poison). You also get an amazing trigger on decay for a free reanimator with +2 ca!

You said mortimer was within 1 inch of nekima, mortimer is your support piece, he has ridiculous movement for your entire crew, he also is at least 2 corpse counters a turn (always take him with corpse bloat, turn 1 you can put a corpse marker down for (0) and the beginning of his activation turn 2 you'll only be 1 wd down from it (due to poison healing and regen)) only ever send him in to do the finishing blow and only really if he'll be safe or have a ton of wds left.

As people are suggestion, hanged are brilliant, i dont usually pay for one with nico i'll summon one or 2 turn 1 depending on cards, have never not summoned 1 on turn 1.

As for a crew at 40ss (i'll only recommend wave 1 models as i feel theres no point learning something that'll just change).

Resurrectionists Crew - 40 - Dustup

Nicodem -- 5 Pool

+Maniacal Laugh [1]

+Shadow Embrace [1]

+Undertaker [1]

Canine Remains [4]

Canine Remains [4]

Madame Sybelle [8]

+Decaying Aura [2]

+Not Too Banged Up [1]

Mortimer [9]

+Corpse Bloat [2]

Rotten Belle [5]

Thats using models you already said you had plus a couple of dogs, because most ressers have dogs (i have 14!) gives you the option to get corpses early if you dont have high cards in hand so you can discard for higher casting to summon a hanged or whatever you wish.

Anyway i'll stop before i start rambling, please get back to me for the questions i asked. I dont think nico vs lilith is a bad match up for nico at all, id probably say its quite even if not in our favour.

Hope that helps.

[Cats Laughing]

Quick note on Distract:

It cannot be removed while engaged, unless you have an ability that allows you to perform interact actions while engaged (which is pretty rare).

Against certain opponents it's one of the easier schemes to score full VP.

[Severino]

Thanks zFiend, luckily I have the Bete model waiting for a coat of paint and I've been meaning to try her out. Seems like I have to be carrying that 10 card at all times, or risk losing an expensive model. I'll try that list out and report back.

Here ya go IamW:
Last game I ran:
Nico: Decaying Aura, Necrotic King, Undertaker
Mort: Shovel, Bloat
Sybelle: Not too banged up, Bleeding Tongue
Rotten Belle, Canine Remains, 6 ss cache.

My opponent:
Lilith: Living Blade, Obsidian Talons, Wicked Mistress
Barbaros: Fears Given Form, Rapid Growth
Nekima: Rapid Growth, Nexus of Power
2 Tots, 4ss cache

Last game I had we decided to swap crews, since it was becoming boring winning against me so easily. What do you know, I won with minimal effort, and my friend was even lucky with cards/summons the whole game. Basically just moved my blob of doom straight up the middle massacring the hapless undead minions that were powerless to stop me. Nekima and Lilith both died, but I easily accomplished all my schemes and got full vps for the strat.

I really want to love Nico, but it seems he got N+E+R+F+E+D in m2e. Decay cast through vultures and summoning used to be my mainstay, and now they just don't cut it. I realise that all masters got N*E*R*F*E*D in some way, but the changes they made to Nico deeply affect his core play mechanics imo. Perhaps this opinion will change after I try a hanged.

My original statement still stands that against such powerful mobile models as Lilith possesses, a Nicodem crew is severely disadvantaged when it comes to achieving objectives.

EDIT: Got replies while typing.

@Cats, that's really good to know. I'm using some printed scheme/strat cards that I got off the forums, and several of them seem to be missing crucial bits like that.

@Tiny, thanks for the in-depth feedback. I'll try and address everything:

* We always announce our schemes. Seems silly not to for the extra vp, especially since the pool of 5 makes it quickly obvious which ones you've chosen.

* Mortimer was within 1" because Nekima flew in that close. After everything was dead (she nearly so) and she had flown off to "safety" I lured her right back in with the Belle and finished her off. I had used a ss on Mort, but he had taken wds from Spleen and BB already so was quickly finished off.

* The Distracting point is moot now, thanks to Cats Laughing.

* Decaying Aura: Fair enough, but I considered the upgrade slot on Sybelle to be more important with only 2. I usually find Nico isn't such a target for the enemy being so tough, and he's usually within 6" of the frontline anyway.

* At this point I'd like to say, instead of assuming I did something wrong, imagine circumstances that arrived at the conclusions I have given you (despite my best efforts to avoid them). It's impossible for you to fully fathom the intricacies of the battle unless you were there, or I upload a video batrep. I'm here for advise, so instead of questioning all my actions, instead give me general tips to overcome the scenarios I've presented. Hope that makes sense

*"I'm struggling to picture..." see above point
*"Why exactly?.." see above.

* The Turf War scenario played out exactly as I said. Lilith was nearly dead, and so moved deep into my back line behind terrain to plant the last evidence marker where I could never hope to reach her (she moves 18 frigging inches a turn). She also lured my two models out of the 6" inch radius to deny me the vp. I realise wasn't killing me in that instance, instead she denied me the vp while achieving her own objectives. How would you have dealt with that situation?

*"What are you spending ss on?" - summoning flips and Df/dmg prevention flips. I find I burn through ss like crazy to get that extra crow. The rest of this point I know, I just find that the Resser minions I've used are just not that good, even when within 6" of Nico. I've also found that more models makes for a very Fate Hand dependent crew, and I find myself without a hand about twice every battle.

* Lilith's Wicked Gaze or whatever it is is also Ca 8 (double Mask) AND it does auto 3 dmg if I run into terrain. Against my low wp minions, it's quire a lot more brutal than Lure I've found.

From my earlier post, I usually end up piling in on Nekima becausee I NEED that many models to take her down, and I really don't want her around regening, summoning tots and growing them. I usually get engaged in melee Turn 2 (depending on objectives) due to the insane mobility of Lilith's beatsticks, and that means I have Lilith, Barbaros AND Nekima to deal with with whatever half-health things I managed to summon that turn.

I will try the list you've posted, but from my experience, and after playing as Lilith, my friend and I both agree it's a one sided match up (I won, and that's the first time I've used Lilith). Unless the hanged are super-awesome-wtfbbq-roflpwn amazing to rival Nekima, I doubt I'll be using Nicodem for much longer.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Severino

[zFiend]

Okay so I went ahead and read a little more on the rezzers from wave 2 and possibly found something for you to use. Guild autopsy. It costs 4 so it's not that expensive for Nico to summon, what it does is on (2) action it gives out Paralyze to a non-leader without any duels, after that you need to sacrifice the model but paralyzed Nekima won't hurt you and that's 13ss + upgrades out of his list and if needed you could beat her down while paralyzed.

I don't quite agree with the use of only wave 1 models as there is a lot of good ones on wave 2, sure they change due to beta but Nekima is also from wave 2 so.. Fight fire with fire

The drowned also seem to be quite resilient models with df 6 and -2dg on ml attacks. Cost 6ss could be considered as a lockdown model for summon.

[CWCToby]

Before you entirely give upon Nico, don't forget that Nekima is currently in the Wave 2 Beta and therefore may not yet be entirely fair & balanced. If your still happy to use beta models, make sure you have the latest version and aren't picking & choosing the 'best bits'.

[Tiny]

My opponent:

Lilith: Living Blade, Obsidian Talons, Wicked Mistress

Barbaros: Fears Given Form, Rapid Growth

Nekima: Rapid Growth, Nexus of Power

2 Tots, 4ss cache

Rapid Growth is Rare 1.

Last game I had we decided to swap crews, since it was becoming boring winning against me so easily. What do you know, I won with minimal effort, and my friend was even lucky with cards/summons the whole game. Basically just moved my blob of doom straight up the middle massacring the hapless undead minions that were powerless to stop me. Nekima and Lilith both died, but I easily accomplished all my schemes and got full vps for the strat.

I really want to love Nico, but it seems he got cuddled in m2e. Decay cast through vultures and summoning used to be my mainstay, and now they just don't cut it. I realise that all masters got cuddled in some way, but the changes they made to Nico deeply affect his core play mechanics imo. Perhaps this opinion will change after I try a hanged.

My original statement still stands that against such powerful mobile models as Lilith possesses, a Nicodem crew is severely disadvantaged when it comes to achieving objectives.

EDIT: Got replies while typing.

@Cats, that's really good to know. I'm using some printed scheme/strat cards that I got off the forums, and several of them seem to be missing crucial bits like that.

@Tiny, thanks for the in-depth feedback. I'll try and address everything:

* We always announce our schemes. Seems silly not to for the extra vp, especially since the pool of 5 makes it quickly obvious which ones you've chosen.

I ask because i'll always not announce schemes if it still possible to get full VP from it, as then you can put down scheme markers and mess with the opponent when you're doing something completely different (ie if you put down 3 markers for plant evidence you can still get full vp)

* Mortimer was within 1" because Nekima flew in that close. After everything was dead (she nearly so) and she had flown off to "safety" I lured her right back in with the Belle and finished her off. I had used a ss on Mort, but he had taken wds from Spleen and BB already so was quickly finished off.

The upgrade i mentioned earlier + nurse will help soften the blow on this somewhat.

* Decaying Aura: Fair enough, but I considered the upgrade slot on Sybelle to be more important with only 2. I usually find Nico isn't such a target for the enemy being so tough, and he's usually within 6" of the frontline anyway.

How often are you trigger the auto kill to discard cards or stones on her? Are you giving her fast to get more cards out of their hand? I ask because i initallly did the same but after 5 or so games it became clear that i wasnt using the crows on sybelle i was using them on nico or on crooked men

* Decaying Aura: Fair enough, but I considered the upgrade slot on Sybelle to be more important with only 2. I usually find Nico isn't such a target for the enemy being so tough, and he's usually within 6" of the frontline anyway.

just to be complete im going to remind you that its 4 inches for decaying aura, it used to be 6 in beta but was changed.

* At this point I'd like to say, instead of assuming I did something wrong, imagine circumstances that arrived at the conclusions I have given you (despite my best efforts to avoid them). It's impossible for you to fully fathom the intricacies of the battle unless you were there, or I upload a video batrep. I'm here for advise, so instead of questioning all my actions, instead give me general tips to overcome the scenarios I've presented. Hope that makes sense

I'm questioning your actions so i can get a better idea of why you did certain things and so i can better help you, in my opinion nico is the strongest of the wave 1 casters for ressers (close 2nd Doug) so you feeling like he is a waste and wanting to retire him something isnt right there. Surely the point of making a thread about your experiences then relaying the specifics to us would be to get a specific answer.

* The Turf War scenario played out exactly as I said. Lilith was nearly dead, and so moved deep into my back line behind terrain to plant the last evidence marker where I could never hope to reach her (she moves 18 frigging inches a turn). She also lured my two models out of the 6" inch radius to deny me the vp. I realise wasn't killing me in that instance, instead she denied me the vp while achieving her own objectives. How would you have dealt with that situation?

Well your opponent has 5 activations you said you killed nekima early so he has 4 activations, you have at least 2 or more activations. And your models are presumably clumped around the centre of the board for turf war. So theres tons of stuff you can do, nico can make a belle fast so you can lure your own models back into the turf war area 3 times, if a belle is lured sybelle can "call belle" back into the turf war area, you've giving mortimer casting expert so you can fresh meat the model 3 times into the area (casting it on your own model and choosing to fail), or just activating them last and walking them into the area.

*"What are you spending ss on?" - summoning flips and Df/dmg prevention flips. I find I burn through ss like crazy to get that extra crow. The rest of this point I know, I just find that the Resser minions I've used are just not that good, even when within 6" of Nico. I've also found that more models makes for a very Fate Hand dependent crew, and I find myself without a hand about twice every battle.

Nico's crew as a whole i've found doesnt need cards at all, as long as they are within the 6inches of him. Again i'll point out for completeness that nico has an aura of 6inches around him where friendly under models get + to melee and defense, meaning you will need to cheat far less to win the duels. You dont have to hit every time you attack, if you burn an opponents card and miss all the better, then they are just closer to getting 1 shot by sybelle (assuming you still take that action) {also on the cards note dont forget the amazing trigger on lure with a crow if you manage to flip one}. Also as i mentioned earlier with the upgrades those mindless zombies dying and even your own stuff dying will give you a steady flow of cards over the game.

* Lilith's Wicked Gaze or whatever it is is also Ca 8 (double Mask) AND it does auto 3 dmg if I dun into terrain. Against my low wp minions, it's quire a lot more brutal than Lure I've found.

Ok you're listing 2 different spells here "Wicked Vines" and "Transfixing gaze" the first does 1 dmg and if they are pushed they take 3 dmg. The second (which needs a 4 of masks at least to get off) and has a dmg track of 1/2/3 (which will have a negative flip due to hard to wound), so is he doing the first then using the 2nd? so 1 model is taking minimum 5 dmg?

From my earlier post, I usually end up piling in on Nekima becausee I NEED that many models to take her down, and I really don't want her around regening, summoning tots and growing them. I usually get engaged in melee Turn 2 (depending on objectives) due to the insane mobility of Lilith's beatsticks, and that means I have Lilith, Barbaros AND Nekima to deal with with whatever half-health things I managed to summon that turn.

How do you deal with this? Do you just attack them or do you slow each of them with nico or paralyse with your minions/terror? I'd slow the target your arent going to kill that turn and with better decaying aura placement you should easily be able to kill either of them with sybelle + another especially because of the corpse conductor aura. Remember black blood is only an inch and sybelle, mortimer, and the punk zombie out of what you listed all have 2 inch melee range.

I will try the list you've posted, but from my experience, and after playing as Lilith, my friend and I both agree it's a one sided match up (I won, and that's the first time I've used Lilith). Unless the hanged are super-awesome-wtfbbq-roflpwn amazing to rival Nekima, I doubt I'll be using Nicodem for much longer.

Hanged are amazing, they will probably help you greatly, but like anything they are another tool in the arsenal.

I noticed i didnt have a nurse in that list i gave you, try this one instead:

Resurrectionists Crew - 40 - Dustup

Nicodem -- 5 Pool

+Maniacal Laugh [1]

+Shadow Embrace [1]

+Undertaker [1]

Canine Remains [4]

Madame Sybelle [8]

+Decaying Aura [2]

Mortimer [9]

+Corpse Bloat [2]

Nurse [5]

Rotten Belle [5]

Nurses are great utility pieces the poison as i said in my earlier post works incredibly well with nico. But if you activate before nekima or barbaros you can use a take your meds on them and make them only able to take walk actions that turn or paralyse them.

[Uktena]

Lilith player here; Summon a Hanged with LOS to Lilith and park her.