Are Gremlins (d)evolved humans from before the big breach collapse?

[Iron Heel]

I read this once on the forums and wondered if it ever got confirmed.

Connection to Z, plethora of archaic-looking (yet really useful) firearms, no connection to other NB, attracted to humans and their "ways;" It seems to make sense. Perhaps over several generations the population physically changed and got more feral; once humans showed up again it catalyzed them to reestablish human methods long abandoned.

[rancor709]

I actually quite like that thought, the idea there all basically Gollum from lord of the rings.

[Iron Heel]

I am not sure that they are as long-lived as Golum, but who knows?

[Guy in Suit]

All of my experiences with dumb_luck89 point to 'Yes', gremlins were at one point human.

[Brewmaster]

I really like this concept! VERY evocative.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Fun, yeah, I like that theory. Makes a lot of sense.

[Claymore65]

It makes sense. Most Neverborn were previously human as well (I think), so I just assumed that to be true...

[Dracomax]

It makes sense. Most Neverborn were previously human as well (I think), so I just assumed that to be true...

Well, most Neverborn are the descendants of the original inhabitants of the breach. we think they were mostly like Humans because of Lilith, Pandora, and the evidence of Malifaux that they were mostly shaped the same. However, they could have been lizard people for all we really know.

[Drool_bucket]

umm... I had always thought that Gremlins were the natural evolution of Breachside life, them and Siliriuds so far. Didn't Gremlins start mirroring Humans?

Neverborn are the corrupted humans from before, as witnessed with Tuco such...

[hypoking]

I object to the idea of devolution in general.

[M_Ruckuss]

I used to tell my local gaming group that as part of my neverborn allegiance I was also entitled to play the Viktorias as one is in fact a neverborn dopple ganger (wish she was dual faction....!). I also believed Gremlins were Neverborn because I thought I read it in the original book, but I could never find it again! However I have found it on the wyrd site....!

http://www.malifaux.com/Neverborn.php

This states that gremlins are neverborn life forms and this separate from humans: they are not devolved humans but a "lesser" (hope dumb luck doesn't read this!) neverborn life form who aspire to be like humans by imitating them, usually in the belief it Willard them better fighters.

The distinction here is shown with Zoraida, who is described as

Once "being human" but is now one of the neverborn. Therefore neverborn, and gremlins, cannot be human, as zoraida could not originally be human only to become human again, if that makes sense! Hope this helps...!

[Omenbringer]

umm... I had always thought that Gremlins were the natural evolution of Breachside life, them and Siliriuds so far. Didn't Gremlins start mirroring Humans?

Not sure if it remains true now but that is what it was last edition. This is also what I was told by some of the Wyrd folks while at GenCon a few years ago when I cornered them and asked them.

Due to their insanely high birth rates (described as litters), prolific breading habits (short generational gaps) and inquisitive natures (their main survival mechanism) they evolved quicker than their fellow swamp brethren.

[EnternalVoid]

Personally, I doubt they are from humans unless the original race of Malifaux was infact human. As pointed out by Dracomax it has been suggested that the original race was at least human like, in limbs, general shape and size, but there is little to confirm they were human or just humanoid.

From the fluff, Gremlins were very different before they encountered humans when they came through the Breach. They lived in even cruder structures, did not wear clothing, use firearms, and generally had little in the way of weapons outside of what they might have found, a random rock, or a stick. Which if you look at the Nephilims and other races of Malifaux is not to different as they are rather primal. It was that the Gremlins mimic humans, quickly adopting aspects of their society that brought them into what they are now. I suspect from those first few years, and the 100 years in between is where we saw the radical changes in Gremlin culture to more mirror humans as they Gremlins saw them. I doubt the Gremlins are the offshoot of the humans from 100 years ago and rather that they are something far more native to Breachside then that.

[Iron Heel]

Personally, I doubt they are from humans unless the original race of Malifaux was infact human. As pointed out by Dracomax it has been suggested that the original race was at least human like, in limbs, general shape and size, but there is little to confirm they were human or just humanoid.

From the fluff, Gremlins were very different before they encountered humans when they came through the Breach. They lived in even cruder structures, did not wear clothing, use firearms, and generally had little in the way of weapons outside of what they might have found, a random rock, or a stick. Which if you look at the Nephilims and other races of Malifaux is not to different as they are rather primal. It was that the Gremlins mimic humans, quickly adopting aspects of their society that brought them into what they are now. I suspect from those first few years, and the 100 years in between is where we saw the radical changes in Gremlin culture to more mirror humans as they Gremlins saw them. I doubt the Gremlins are the offshoot of the humans from 100 years ago and rather that they are something far more native to Breachside then that.

I don't know. The following is from the same Neverborn page noted above:

The origin of these creatures is uncertain. Many believe that they are created by some maligned force, and thus, they were dubbed Neverborn to help mankind explain away their complete lack of human empathy and mercy.

From the perspective of humans coming through the breach now, Gremlins seem indigenous and are thus Neverborn. The writer still have leeway in this as they can just say that the current humans are wrong. I guess we will see.

[winters_night]

I doubt it, just a species that has lived in Malifaux. They simply started adopting human like traits.

I don't know many humans giving birth to 20 babies in a litter..

[Dumb Luck]

All of my experiences with dumb_luck89 point to 'Yes', gremlins were at one point human.

Oh you. You're too kind.

[Brence]

What I know from various sources:

Neverborn are descendants of the former inhabitants of Malifaux. Those original inhabitants in turn are described as being greater and lesser gods...My Theory based on that is that the Greater Gods became the Tyrants, the lesser one's gone mad in the aftermath of trying to contain/destroy the Tyrants became the Neverborn.

I believe that the Nephilim's Angel/Demon appearance support this theory, being a wink at "Gods" and "Angels".

I also believe that the human forms taken by Pandora and Lilith are very much part of their terror campaign. I would certainly be scared ****less as a beautiful looking woman starts cleaving trough my mates with total lack of human emotions or motives, that is a frightening paradox!

As for the Gremlins, I believe they might have been a sort of "imps/elfs" or whatever helpers to their Godlike brethern (lesser or greater).

Now without this leadership adopting human ways as a way of structure and guiding culture.

Just my thoughts based on what tibbits we actually know.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I object to the idea of devolution in general.

Are We Not Men?

[Hateful Darkblack]

Are We Not Men?

http://nonadventures.com/2013/07/27/you-say-you-want-a-devolution/

[Boon]

I really like the discussion.

I get the point why some might say devolution while the comic is right

But I always thought backwards in the sense of the word would be re and therefore revolution. Gives a whole new meaning to the word

I also thought/think that gremlins might have evolved from humans.

Expose a population to unknown forces, radiation and/or magic and who knows what will happen. Evolution is not driven by reason. It is more try and error. It can go sideways and with a smaller turnover rate you have a big advantage. Why else is the theory that insects will replace us at one point

But Brence explanation sounds also reasonable.

[Brence]

Thinking about the greater and lesser gods thing might they not be a kind of manifestation of the trickster god? Loki, the Fae etc. Malicious little spirits n such like every mythology has?