Companion(Chain Activations) in M2E

[rsteelrose]

I've been slowly working my way through the M2E book and noticed for the first time the changes to chain activations. I was thoroughly disappointed to see that activations are limited to 2 models activating in sequence now preventing a heavy alpha strike. But, mostly, I'm interested to hear what everyone experience with this has been.

[Arli]

As a Henchmen, the old chain activation is the single biggest complaint that I hear from former players as to why they stopped playing 1.5. I think the old way was horribly over powered. Granted, I only played a couple of games of 1.5 before the beta started.

[Claymore65]

Yeah, being able to activate EVERYTHING before your opponent (though you probably didn't do this too much in practice) could be very powerful. You can kill half your opponent's team before they can even react. Sure, they get a lot activations in a row now, but if you did sufficient damage they might not be able to recover. I'm personally happy with the change.

[decker_cky]

I think the complaint issue is bigger than it being too powerful. It was something that could be very powerful when starting out, and created bad games, but it wasn't that powerful in the long run.

[nilus]

I think the complaint issue is bigger than it being too powerful. It was something that could be very powerful when starting out, and created bad games, but it wasn't that powerful in the long run.

As someone who has played Ortegas since before the game even came out I can say the Alpha strike(hint I coined that term) being "BROKEN" was never really the case. More times then not activating everything at once put you in a bad place because your opponent got do basically do the same thing back.

In the end companion was best used to make 2 or 3 man kill teams against your enemy. If the Ortega or Seamus alpha strikes were really a problem they would have dominated the competitive scene and anyone can tell you neither Resser or Guild were the problem factions at tournaments.

[Ausplosions]

Companion chains were rubbish.

Every time it happened against me, or you see it happen, you can just see the opponents eyes glaze over.

Boring watching someone do everything all st once while you do nothing.

I think it's a great change.

[dgraz]

As a huge Ortega player, I fully agree with Nilus. The Alpha Strike was a beginner move...more seasoned players never did it....activating 3 models at most. Even then, it was an NPE for some people. And honestly, how many crews could really do it? Two....Ortegas always, and more recently Misaki...but that usually wasn't full blown like the Ortegas.

I'm happy with the new Chain Activation rule anyway. It enabled more Companions to be added to the game....which is pretty fun and works much better.

[Fenton Crack]

Different strokes for different folks and all that, but I too prefer "alternating activations" to "I go you go." I agree that the motivation for the change is likely to keep the game more interesting for both players rather than for balance. If there are too many moves by one player it can get like GW games, where there are so many consecutive moves by one player that it becomes "nap time" for the other. Now, even with an "alpha strike" in Malifaux, it is not nearly as bad as a Warhammer situation where there are so many miniatures on the board that you can literally go get something to eat and come back and the other player is still going, but it can still affect player enjoyment.

At the same time, there is no denying GW's popularity, so there must be a large demographic players that do not mind, and I am sure that there are Malifaux players who will miss it.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I would say it depends on who we are talking about. A twins+ Bond chain wasn't a beginners move.

[rgarbonzo]

Actually the LaCroix did it better than the Ortegas.

[Spifferson]

This isn't a rules question and could safely be moved to general discussion.

As someone who has played Ortegas since before the game even came out I can say the Alpha strike(hint I coined that term) being "BROKEN" was never really the case. More times then not activating everything at once put you in a bad place because your opponent got do basically do the same thing back.

In the end companion was best used to make 2 or 3 man kill teams against your enemy. If the Ortega or Seamus alpha strikes were really a problem they would have dominated the competitive scene and anyone can tell you neither Resser or Guild were the problem factions at tournaments.

FYI

Your claiming to have coined a term that has been a common wargames term for quite some time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_strike_(gaming)

[Iron Heel]

I was pleased to see the new limit.

Alternating activations was one of the selling points of this game for me. I've always felt systems that used it provided more interesting play experiences. Why have rules that throw that off completely?

I played WM/H for many years and really felt that it would have been greatly improved by adopting alternating activations.

[dgraz]

Actually the LaCroix did it better than the Ortegas.

The LaCroix did everything better than the Ortegas. Stupid broken-ass book 2.

[Soundwave]

Well, Colette, duet, mannequins etc killing stuff from 18" away and still be in the same spot did sort of hurt.

Ortega alpha might have its limitations, but some of the chainable things were just ridiculous. It's pretty much what broke dreamer too.

[Marcalla]

Alot of players play GW games because we are entrenched from the day's when it was the only game in town. When you've got several thousands of dollars in models, hours and hours of converting/painting hundreds upon hundreds of said models, terrain etc. You tend to stick with the game as long as its decent. (and the current GW big games are probably in their best rules iterations to date)

I like the current chain activation rule. As stated before "I go, you go" is much preferred to the I go with everything and then you get to go with the 2 or 3 things you have left on the board.

[Helm]

Long chain activations also meant waiting for the instigator.

Not as much waiting (presumably the victim now had fewer models) and possibly waiting with a bit of smugness.

But both sides had a period of moving models without the tension of a possible response by the opponent. I think that takes away from the game.

[nilus]

FYI

Your claiming to have coined a term that has been a common wargames term for quite some time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_strike_(gaming)

I coined to term in context of Malifaux companion chains. I heard it used way back in the Battletech days when you shot all your guns at once, so I started calling the Ortega chain that in games with WiErD sKetCH and it caught on in the forums.

[Jonasty]

Yeah I'm glad the Alpha Strike super chain got nixed in the new edition. I didn't have any issues with it from a balance perspective, others have rightly pointed out that there were ways around it but it did create a NPE often times.

I had a 1.5 game with my LaCroix versus my brother's Ramos crew a while back. I was able to alpha strike in Turn 2 and wipe out both his Steamborg and intially purchased Spider Swarm in one turn. He tried to regenerate some spiders for another swarm as the game progressed but he was pretty much kneecapped at that point and he ultimately got frustrated as it was an uphill battle for him to even accomplish anything.

[G. Footman]

2 models does not make a chain.

not complainign about the change, just think they shouldn't of called it what it isn't

[Ausplosions]

2 models does not make a chain.

not complainign about the change, just think they shouldn't of called it what it isn't

A companion coupling?

A table for two?

Chain is fine I think.

[Spifferson]

I think the 2 model limit is a good change and having a specific rule about it will help with the design and balance of future models. Also by using the companion and accomplice rules we are already seeing more models with the ability to chain activate in some manor. It remains to be seen how widespread this becomes and if certain "teams" will make there way into regular play.

[Dracomax]

Long chain activations also meant waiting for the instigator.

Not as much waiting (presumably the victim now had fewer models) and possibly waiting with a bit of smugness.

But both sides had a period of moving models without the tension of a possible response by the opponent. I think that takes away from the game.

I agree with this, and would also add that it made the game take longer. When companion activating, you probably have all of your moves mostly planned out, but after the fact, the board has changed so much(even if you didn't kill 2-3 big guys, or all of the little guys on the other side) that your opponent has to take time to study the board, and figure out where they want to move. It also makes the game less dynamic(while at the same time swinging back and forth more drastically), because the game is built around the ebb and flow of you go I go, react and act. With chain activations in M1E, and especially with alpha strikes, the sine curve becomes compressed. I'm responding to everything you did at once, and then you are doing the same. Plans become less about what I'm setting up for next turn, or 8 moves down the line, and more about what you just did and how I need to respond.

Activation order becomes a non-issue, and that takes a lot away from certain crews, and the skills used with them.

Also, it was kind of boring being the person doing the chain, and extremely boring being the person the chain was happening to.

I think the 2 model limit is a good change and having a specific rule about it will help with the design and balance of future models. Also by using the companion and accomplice rules we are already seeing more models with the ability to chain activate in some manor. It remains to be seen how widespread this becomes and if certain "teams" will make there way into regular play.

I think most teams that operated off of chains are going to see big changes, to make them work without needing to chain activate. I expect that Collette's crew, for instance, with either become more resilient, or get more in the way of defensive movement. Perdita and Ophelia lost those abilities, but gained in other areas to take some of the slack off(Perdita gained free movement tricks, Ophelia's crew just plain got more dangerous).

It definitely makes a difference in game, and I trust Wyrd to at least think of how that works.

A companion coupling?

A table for two?

Chain is fine I think.

Oh my god. I actually agree with Ausplosions. Maybe the Mayans were only off by 9 months. :Smug_Puppet1:

So, yeah, I like this change. a lot. It only makes the game better, and creates more of a break with other miniature games.

[Therril_83]

Only times I personally saw more than 2 models at a time in 1.5 was either me with Sonnia companioning two dogs, positioning the dogs for blasting and then killed them, or when my friend found a good opportunity to go with Perdita, Nephilim and Nino in such an order that he both got to use the good cards he had, then redraw more and keep shooting.

My Sonnia+dogs chain was decent, but never really gamewinning. It was a 5ss-one-trick-pony.

But Pertida+Neph+Nino in a good position usually killed 2-3 models with 5-8 shots (4+triggers), and could be repeated several times in a game usually. The games where I could avoid it meant hiding and that means he still got a lot of board control out of it.

That being said, I still didn't consider it OP, but I do think it's a good change that increases the flow of the game.

[Dracomax]

Perdiat, Ophelia, Colette, and one or two others had some chain activations that tended to take 3/4 or more of their crew every round, and force you to play to what they were doing rather than what you wanted to do. By even existing, the ability to chain more than 2 models meant that the crew doing the chain activation took control of the game, and that, really, is one of the biggest problems, because a good strategy/tactical game should be forcing both players to fight for who is forcing the other to react to them.

And you only need to get hit with the alpha strike once to see why it was a problem. Was it game breaking? no, but it made the game less fun, and inherently gave a measure of game control to the initiator without making them work for it, or even get a lucky break. Either reason is enough to be glad it is gone.

[rsteelrose]

I rarely used it after I got used to the Ortega's, it let my opponent out activate me, but it was nice to have as a threat.

That said, I think their just as strong, maybe stronger with the new ruling.