Red Joker: Additional damage flip.

[Sevorin]

It was pointed out to me today that the "additional damage flip" triggered by the red joker damage flip was cheatable. I never played this way, or even realized it, but after reading the rules manual on the flip, as written, it is correct. The additional card is indeed treated as a damage flip, and any damage flip that is not a negative twist can be cheated.

My question is, is this correct? If so I have completely missed it the entire time I've been playing.

[amor sanguinis]

But her severe is 5blast blast blast

---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

So u get the 5blast blast blast +5 from the severe on additional damage flip

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

No. The additional flip from the Red Joker is not actually a Damage Flip (I know the Rules Manual makes reference to another Damage Flip, but that's not really how it works), it is just a flip that adds damage equal to the number corresponding to the severity. Other damage effects are not applied again (Blasts, Poison, Crit Strike, etc). These things are actually applied after, from a game standpoint.

This is also why you can't cheat the additional flip from the Red Joker. Card flips can't be cheated unless they are Duels or Damage Flips.

Prevent damage flips?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Prevent damage flips?

Spend a soulstone, flip a card to prevent damage.

I do this all the time. You've seen me do it.

[amor sanguinis]

I feel like an idiot... we have been playing that the only noncheatable flips where healing and neg twists.

[Adran]

I feel like an idiot... we have been playing that the only noncheatable flips where healing and neg twists.

You're looking at it the wrong way.

The only flips that have a defalt permision to cheat are duals and damage and even then only if you are neutral or positive.

On your Sonnia Damage example, the target of the attack would take 10 damage and those under the (3)blast markers would take 3. the 10 damage would be applied to the model in one go and then be modified by armour and so forth.

Hope that is clear

[amor sanguinis]

You're looking at it the wrong way.

The only flips that have a defalt permision to cheat are duals and damage and even then only if you are neutral or positive.

On your Sonnia Damage example, the target of the attack would take 10 damage and those under the (3)blast markers would take 3. the 10 damage would be applied to the model in one go and then be modified by armour and so forth.

Hope that is clear

Thank you :-)

[Jonas Albrecht]

Also, barring another rules change, Prevent Damage flips can be cheated too.

[Lucidicide]

Also, barring another rules change, Prevent Damage flips can be cheated too.

Uhh... no they can't.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Uhh... no they can't.

Oh lord.

[Thaarup]

Additional damage refers to things like Flay, Critical Strike, and Flaming Bullets.

Yes or no - the two first (Flay and Critical Strike) are triggers. Flaming Bullets is what is apparently termed damage modifiers and that term includes other damage from game effects, that are included after cheating. Page 42 (rulebook 1.5) under the damage flip topic.

If the extra damage from the Red Joker was not a damage modifier it would probably not have included the "additional" in front of it.

Well, that is my interpretation of it

[Lucidicide]

Oh lord.

/hug

[Sevorin]

While I enjoy the banter, I dont suppose we could get anyone official to chime in here?

[Lucidicide]

While I enjoy the banter, I dont suppose we could get anyone official to chime in here?

On what? I'm feeling official.

The rulebook actually says "...it inflicts Severe damage plus a second Damage Flip's worth of damage." Although poorly worded, it doesn't actually say it's a second Damage Flip -- it's just a second flip's worth.

The problem arises from the damage chart on the same page which DOES say "+ another Damage Flip." I'm sure that was done to save space. I can assure you that you cannot cheat the additional damage on a red joker.

Additionally:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?31896-Cheating-Fate&p=405650&viewfull=1#post405650

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?20086-Additional-damage-flips&p=227213&viewfull=1#post227213

[Cadilon]

Additionally:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?31896-Cheating-Fate&p=405650&viewfull=1#post405650

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?20086-Additional-damage-flips&p=227213&viewfull=1#post227213

Well, if those links don't wrap up this discussion, I don't know what would.

[Justin]

Well, if those links don't wrap up this discussion, I don't know what would.

Tortillas.

(And so concludes my first and final response in the rules forum as a Wyrd employee)

[rancor709]

Slow day at the office justin

[Sevorin]

Thanks!

Now to be added to the FAQ =)

[amor sanguinis]

Looks like this comes up once a year

[Omenbringer]

Now to be added to the FAQ =)

Figured it would have made it since the question has been out there for 2 years now. Hopefully this will be the prod that finally sees this added to the FAQ.

By the way good find on the past threads Lucidicide.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Omenbringer

[xKoBiEx]

Whenever I kill a model with an extra damage flip from a Red Joker, I will just be saying "Tortillas" from now on.

[amor sanguinis]

Whenever I kill a model with an extra damage flip from a Red Joker, I will just be saying "Tortillas" from now on.

It should be added to the rules that you must say it or it doesn't count. Lol