scared of malifaux 2.0

[Korrosion]

Please, please, please?

Play test is like fight club, those who are doing it won't talk about it. I'm not doing it so I can speculate but at best I'm making barely educated guesses.

[nix]

Play test is like fight club, those who are doing it won't talk about it. I'm not doing it so I can speculate but at best I'm making barely educated guesses.

Thats not entirely fair....

In episode 69 of the Gamers Lounge we talk extensively about playtest.....

*grin*

[Korrosion]

Thats not entirely fair....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11235[/ATTACH]

In episode 69 of the Gamers Lounge we talk extensively about playtest.....

*grin*

The CURRENTLY ACTIVE Play test is like fight club, those who are doing it won't talk about it. I'm not doing it so I can speculate but at best I'm making barely educated guesses.

Fixed. I like that shameless plug. Just needs some dollar bills around it.

[Forar]

There are certainly some things that end up being confusing, need deep expanding upon or are incredibly complicated when fringe cases come up. Personally I wouldn't mind a D&D 4E/M:tG style attempt to steamline not the game, but the wording of both abilities and rules for maximum consistancy and transparency.

Sure, most situations in most games are pretty straightforward, but I find that even with experienced players in the room you'll run into a situation that can take 10-20 min to parse out, search for similar issues online, get neutral parties involved, etc, which can kill momentum and waste a ton of time.

An example of this would be a time a friend and I hit a moment where (as I recall) he killed one of my Witchling Stalkers while mid attack, and we had to figure out when said Stalker's dying explosion happened, and whether or not it hit the figure that killed him.

And we found this:

Damage Resolution

· Damage sequence begins

......§ Before damage effects and Triggers occur

......§ Check acting model state and apply modifiers

......§ Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

...o Fate flip for damage, note damage value

......§ During damage effects and Triggers occur

......§ Check acting model state and apply modifiers

......§ Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

......§ Apply damage modifiers to damage value (damage total)

...o Apply damage total to defending model

...o Convert damage total to wound value

......§ Before wounding effects and Triggers occur

......§ Check acting model state and apply modifiers

......§ Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

...o Apply wound modifiers to wound value (wound total)

......§ When wounding effects and Triggers occur

......§ Check acting model state and apply modifiers

......§ Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

...o Apply wound total to defending/affected model(s)

......§ After wounding effects and Triggers occur

......§ Check acting model state and apply modifiers

......§ Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

...o Model(s) reduced to 0 Wounds check killed condition

......§ When killed effects and Triggers occur

......§ Check acting model state and apply modifiers

......§ Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

...o Check model(s) Wound total

......§After killed effects and Triggers occur

......§ Check acting model state and apply modifiers

...o Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

......§ If model has 1 or more Wounds remaining, model remains in play and does not receive killed condition

......§ If model has 0 remaining, remove model(s) from play/the game, model receives killed condition

......§ If killed effects and Triggers occur

...· Damage resolution ends

· After resolving the Duel effects and Triggers occur

......o Check acting model state and apply modifiers

......o Check defending/affected model state(s) and apply modifiers

· Duel ends

Now, it's not bad that such intricate information exists. The problem is more that this intricate list is, as far as I know, not found anywhere in any rules manuals, merely via perusing forum archive threads in Google.

It is a strength of the game, imo, that there are so many varried interactions possible between the hundreds (?) of figures found in the 6 factions. However, that immense level of interactions possible means that finding something on the fringe can bring things to a crashing halt, unless you happen to have someone around who already hit that situation and remembers the resolution, or are willing to flip fate cards to see who is 'right' for that round and write down the particulars for looking up later.

[Lucidicide]

Malifaux 2.0. Now with Terrifying -> 15!

[nix]

Malifaux 2.0. Now with Terrifying -> 15!

and Terrifying becomes Anathema!

[Lucidicide]

and Terrifying becomes Anathema!

Darn it! I thought getting rid of my soul would keep me safe! But it's just made me a jerk

[ooshawn]

I do hope instead of dumbing everything down to rasputina or ramos levels, they put everything on par with showgirls or zoraida. Making everything in the game similar, simple, or generic, would murder this game I think. atleast for me

[rancor709]

One should never never doubt what nobody is sure about

[Odin1981]

and Terrifying becomes Anathema!

Sweet watchers become even better in 2.0 .

[i_was_like_you]

Sweet watchers become even better in 2.0 .

[G. Footman]

why would I need to throw out my models again? i never did with any other miniatures game when the rules were updated

[hackdZ]

I can't imagine that 2.0 is even on the horizon yet, didn't they only recently release 1.5???

[i_was_like_you]

It could just be Rules Manual 2.0, with a much clearer wording on rules, a much better index / book layout, the fun things like timing charts that Forar posted just one example of, and, possibly the unveiling of the v3 or so (which would be at least v4 for Levi) stat cards for the models we have. Maybe nothing entirely new on them, just a lot better clarifications of existing stats.

When the RM was published, they also gave us the free version that was missing the illustrations that have proven to be more important than the wording of some rules. But later, in the Clarifications document, we get even better illustrations of just what the heck is going on in a given situation. I hope that any future rules have that level of illustration, maybe in the back of the book, like other games seem to do.

And, although the RM's smaller size initially makes it seem more portable and convenient, full sized pages with illustrated examples on the same page as the rule might serve us better.

Edited February 2, 2013 by i_was_like_you

[Odin1981]

Lol the first year of leve oh the memories.

[dgraz]

Sure, most situations in most games are pretty straightforward, but I find that even with experienced players in the room you'll run into a situation that can take 10-20 min to parse out, search for similar issues online, get neutral parties involved, etc, which can kill momentum and waste a ton of time.

I agree that this happens, but this is a player problem.....not a book problem. I've already said before that I think some things could use a little work.........however, things like this could be handled by the player. You take one minute to look for a rule you can't make sense of....if you can't find it, agree on the point that makes the most common sense or flip for it if you can't agree. After the game is over is the time for spending 20 minutes looking up rules.

I do think that the game is great as is. There are a few areas that could use some stream-lining and a few rules that could use a re-write, but there is nothing that breaks the game or even lessens my enjoyment of it.

Before a 2.0, I'd rather see a model re-work. There are models that just never see table-time because they aren't worth it in the current environment....either because they're original design isn't on par with things now (Ice Golem, Myranda, Nurse, the Child, CCK - even some masters, Raspy can't compete with some of the things out there and it's a rare person that makes Marcus competitive) or because the model simply missed the mark (Crooligans, Pistoleros)........there are some that aren't too bad, but aren't that great either and people only use them because they like them...but if you were choosing to be competitive you would drop them in a second (Raptors, Mortimer, Hunter, Union Miners).

Then they could introduce crew card packs (here's all the rezzer cards for $$$) and/or one bestiary style book....with every model in it, or something....I'm not a marketing guy so I don't know what the best way to present it would be.

[i_was_like_you]

Then they could introduce crew card packs (here's all the rezzer cards for $$$) and/or one bestiary style book....with every model in it, or something....I'm not a marketing guy so I don't know what the best way to present it would be.

[Mako]

That's a fantastic idea, I would probably find things much easier to remember if I had a folder with lists of models, (stats maybe), major strengths and weaknesses, and which blasted triggers and things to avoid at all costs! Warden, I'm looking at you...

[Forar]

I agree that this happens, but this is a player problem.....not a book problem.

Not always, and whether it is or isn't can be secondary; the better the rules are and the better they're laid out/searchable, the less likely it is for those fringe cases to show up, and finding an answer within the rules when they do becomes faster/more likely.

As an example, I can't tell you how often I need to reference the rules reference sheet (far as I know, not an official Wyrd product) for a 'key worded' (read: common) ability to make absolutely sure on the exact wording, because it's generally faster than trying to find the info in the rules manual, with the index in particular glossing over a lot of common terms, in my experience and opinion.

And as always, I merely present critique because I simply see things as potentially minor flaws that might be rectified with hopefully minimal effort in a future revision or edition, and see such streamlining as healthier for the game. Those who already know or know where to find the info aren't likely to be inconvenienced any, but such quality of life features can improve the gameplay experience of others who struggle, especially new players who don't necessarily have an expert or experienced player on hand to guide them.

Personally I think such streamlining can be very valuable to building a community, and would much rather spend X minutes pondering my activation order and ability usage than that time looking up things, which doesn't necessarily happen all the time, but it's something Wyrd obviously keeps in mind when building their manuals, and if they wanted a more thorough breakdown of my thoughts on the matter I'd be happy to give them more in depth feedback.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I've been wanting to make an unofficial dossier binder that contains all of the models' entries from their respective books, all in one binder, sorted by faction, so I could just flip through it instead of the main books. I suppose with the right kind of card sheets, I could just put the stat cards in a binder the same way.

Not quite the same thing, but I'm working on a Guild binder.

[Turtlesauce]

CCK - even some masters, Raspy can't compete with some of the things out there and it's a rare person that makes Marcus competitive) or because the model simply missed the mark (Crooligans, Pistoleros)........there are some that aren't too bad, but aren't that great either and people only use them because they like them...but if you were choosing to be competitive you would drop them in a second (Raptors, Mortimer, Hunter, Union Miners).

Then they could introduce crew card packs (here's all the rezzer cards for $$$) and/or one bestiary style book....with every model in it, or something....I'm not a marketing guy so I don't know what the best way to present it would be.

I would say the crooligans are quite the opposite. They are very specific in their use, but still extremely handy with scenarios that have objectives in my opinion.

[Dustcrusher]

I've taken a break from Malifaux for a while. Going to simpler games has given me some perspective as of late, and I've been wondering about the future of the hobby as a whole. I'll save the long form of what I'm pondering re: the future of Malifaux and minigaming in general for another venue.

Malifaux is an interesting case. The core concepts of the game (how combat and casting flips work, the control hand, soulstones, action points for the most part, strategies and schemes) are clear, elegant, and easy to explain. Add in a few special rules per model and it adds spice to the rules at their core, which are a slick, fresh take on skirmish gaming.

Add too many unique special rules (where the player has to have every stat card in the game memorized or ask the opponent to see the card constantly) and it starts to bog down. That is hands down the biggest complaint I hear from people about Malifaux

I'd like to see some of the special rules streamlined a la Warmahordes Mk II- to a point. Hopefully there is a happy medium between streamlining and preserving Malifaux's distinct flavor. While I think there needs to be some cleanup, it doesn't need to be as simple as, say, Kings of War or Song of Blades and Heroes. I'd also like to see faction decks with the latest updates each year, but I have no idea if this is feasible for Wyrd to do.

[i_was_like_you]

As for book 2 I doubt we are that close. I imagine ten thunder avatars and a second set of henchman are due before next edition. I think developers have a v2 idea board from release but aren't as hasty to do reboot. Not surprising you would hear talk about it.

Not just 10T avatars, they still have to make a second set of avatars for all of the book 1 & 2 masters. Avatar hiring rules state that we have to declare that we have taken the option for a particular master to have an avatar, but not which avatar we have actually connected to it. So another Event could happen, endowing the 10T masters with their first avi, and granting the older masters a second avi.

It'd be great to start completing one set of manifest requirements, but to then just snag one from the real avatar, manifest, and ruin your opponent's plans. I though you were going for this avatar?!

[Jonas Albrecht]

Not just 10T avatars, they still have to make a second set of avatars for all of the book 1 & 2 masters.

Well, they don't have to, and personally, I doubt that's in the cards.

[Justin]

These are all perfect questions to ask a gremlin.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?38936-Ask-a-Gremlin