Masterless Malifaux

[Jonas Albrecht]

So we're trying this variant (Minions only, no Masters, Henchmen, Avatars, or Totems) on Sunday, and I was wondering if y'all would be so kind as to share your experiences with it.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Jonas Albrecht

[Omenbringer]

It definately removes some of the most potent aspects from the game. Ran a few games that way in the past and found it a rather fun distraction.

[dgraz]

here is a link to the campaign that Lord Zombie was running....it was masterless:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?36892-The-Disappearance-of-the-Masters&highlight=disappearance

[DarcXON]

I would have to say that things would be simpler and possibly unbalanced without the Master Shenanigans amplifying/supporting their crews.

Games without Henchmen or Masters would basically mean no SS and certain crews don't do well without their masters. Examples would be Showgirls, Gremlins (maybe not the Kin but not sure), Abominations, Insignificant, and possibly Nightmares. Usually these crews sort of rely/synergize(?) with the play-style of their Master so you may not see them doing well.

The rest of the crews can do well, with the possibility of certain crews going into hyperdrive (Family, Spirits/Undead, Nephilim) or possibly creating new over the top combos for the format.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I would have to say that things would be simpler and possibly unbalanced without the Master Shenanigans amplifying/supporting their crews.

Games without Henchmen or Masters would basically mean no SS and certain crews don't do well without their masters. Examples would be Showgirls, Gremlins (maybe not the Kin but not sure), Abominations, Insignificant, and possibly Nightmares. Usually these crews sort of rely/synergize(?) with the play-style of their Master so you may not see them doing well.

The rest of the crews can do well, with the possibility of certain crews going into hyperdrive (Family, Spirits/Undead, Nephilim) or possibly creating new over the top combos for the format.

Eh, I guess certain crews will have to sit it out then, as the group seems excited to try this. Plus, I'm looking forward to a game without the imbalancing presence of soulstones.

[FearLord]

You could just play without Soul stones?

[Jonas Albrecht]

You could just play without Soul stones?

And I could play without Masters, too. Which is something I'm looking forward to.

Look, we're not doing this as a search for a solution to a problem, we're doing it because it sounds fun. Masters represent a focus of power and crew bolstering, and we're the kind of people who like to see what happens when you remove those elements. All the theoryfretting in the world isn't going to change that.

Again, I want to know what experiences people have had with this variant.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Jonas Albrecht

[FearLord]

Just a suggestion... Really no reason to jump down my throat...

You said it was something your group were looking forward to and you were looking forward to playing without Soul stones... I thought that perhaps that would be a better first step, since for me the Masters are the models that bring some flavour to the game...

[nilus]

Eh, I guess certain crews will have to sit it out then, as the group seems excited to try this. Plus, I'm looking forward to a game without the imbalancing presence of soulstones.

I see it the same way as I see the low stone, speed games(10 stones and less). Certain crews just wont work but I think every faction has some models that can do well in that situation.

I think the point with this type of game is more the fun of it and less the balanced competitive aspect.

[xKoBiEx]

I'd try a few games. I'm thinking they would be faster given that the soulstone steps are gone and minions usually have less abilities and triggers. Tonight, I have some free time. Perhaps I'll see if someone wants to do a 20-25 point game of masterless.

[StormLordXIII]

Hi all,

I'm thinking about writing a narrative campaign accompanied by fan fiction (new stories / endings appear depending on which faction wins the given scenario) and this question has arisen to me too.

Each Malifaux game needs at least one "Master-Like" model, even if that model is not a master per se. I would recommend that each masterless crew have at least a henchmen or a valuable, high soul stone model (i.e. Cassandra, Weaver Widow, Kang, Nekima). Crews could operate with these models using their regular stats with the following exceptions:

- no starting SS pool

- if the leader model does not have the "use soul stone" ability, they gain it

- the model can be affected be spells/triggers/schemes/strategies etc. that only affect Masters (i.e. bodyguard)

I would also only use "masterless" Malifaux for story scenarios (ex, Maybe Kang has to defend a rail outpost against raiding Nephilim while Mei Feng is away on a Ten Thunders Mission, or Ototo leads a raid)

That's my two cents. I'm still relatively new to Malifaux and I have never run a campaign, so I don't know how realistic this would be. Hope it gives you some ideas though. Thanks for posting this thread! This question will hopefully be answered.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Just a suggestion... Really no reason to jump down my throat...

I really wasn't. The second paragraph was for everyone. Sorry for making you feel like you were on the end of a hostile post.

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------

Turning this into a campaign is starting to sound more and more appealing, so if we have fun we can look at making it an ongoing story system.

A few rules I like are:

1) Wounds carry over from previous battles: Any wounds taken during battle stay on a model. However, at the end of every encounter each model gets to make a healing flip.

2) Taken out of action: Models taken out of action must make a flip. Depending on the pull, the model either dies, suffers an injury, survives, or makes a miraculous recover.

3) VPs = Warchest funds. You get a Soulstone for each Victory Point attained. These go into your warchest, which allows you to hire new dudes.

[amor sanguinis]

....But....But I like my masters.... lol

[LordZombie]

I really wasn't. The second paragraph was for everyone. Sorry for making you feel like you were on the end of a hostile post.

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------

Turning this into a campaign is starting to sound more and more appealing, so if we have fun we can look at making it an ongoing story system.

A few rules I like are:

1) Wounds carry over from previous battles: Any wounds taken during battle stay on a model. However, at the end of every encounter each model gets to make a healing flip.

2) Taken out of action: Models taken out of action must make a flip. Depending on the pull, the model either dies, suffers an injury, survives, or makes a miraculous recover.

3) VPs = Warchest funds. You get a Soulstone for each Victory Point attained. These go into your warchest, which allows you to hire new dudes.

I like it! Not sure why people are so afraid to play a game without a master. If the master gave all models within 6" a +1 Wp or let them reflip a flip on a duel or anything like that, then yes, don't take my master! But masters in malifaux do nothing more that slaughter crews on their own (like Lilith and the Viks) or buff CERTAIN models (like Nicodem or Colette). All you lose by taking no master is one slightly unbalanced model that was free in the first place. Enjoy your game, good sir (or miss) and let me know how it goes.

[Jonas Albrecht]

....But....But I like my masters.... lol

Don't worry, it's just a trial balloon for a sometimes variant.

Anyway, for my group, here are the rules:

1) No Masters, Henchmen, Avatars, or Totems can be hired. Duh.

2) All hiring restrictions still apply. If a minion requires a master to be used, it may not be hired. Vanessa Treasurehunter and Seishin, for example.

3) Soulstones. Any minion that may use soulstones is allowed to do so. The max soulstone pool allowed is 3.

4) Game size. Due to time contraints, the game will be at 15ss, and will be multiplayer.

[Cats Laughing]

2) All hiring restrictions still apply. If a minion requires a master to be used, it may not be hired. Vanessa Treasurehunter and Seishin, for example.

Are you making any exceptions for special forces? Normally you can't have more than 2 models from a special forces selection, unless you're also taking the henchman. In this case you can't take the henchman so I assume at most you can take two models from a special forces selection.

Just asking to be clear.

I worry a bit about some of the 11+pt models ruling the roost. Especially ones that can use soulstones, like the Duet...

The format sounds interesting, I hope your group enjoys it. Maybe I'll see if my group would like to try it out (though we've got some new players, so maybe not until they're up to speed).

[Jonas Albrecht]

Are you making any exceptions for special forces? Normally you can't have more than 2 models from a special forces selection, unless you're also taking the henchman. In this case you can't take the henchman so I assume at most you can take two models from a special forces selection.

Just asking to be clear.

I worry a bit about some of the 11+pt models ruling the roost. Especially ones that can use soulstones, like the Duet...

The format sounds interesting, I hope your group enjoys it. Maybe I'll see if my group would like to try it out (though we've got some new players, so maybe not until they're up to speed).

Yeah, tentatively we're keeping the hiring restrictions on Special Forces, and not banning any big ticket models.

Tentatively.

So I expect to find out just how bad this turns out for everyone except the duet.

[HaggisMcMutton]

sounds like a lot of fun for trying something different. I've been wanting to try a few games with the Jokers taken out of the decks and seeing how that goes. I also like those ideas for a campaign, makes it feel more like Necromunda where a model might permanently die or suffer some wound that carries over to the next game, like an eye injury resulting in the model having -1 cb to all ranged attacks or something.

Either way, sounds like a fun crazy time, as long as everyone involved plays to the spirit of the new rules.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Either way, sounds like a fun crazy time, as long as everyone involved plays to the spirit of the new rules.

Heh, maybe. If I can guess motivations of my friends, we're going to see:

Nekima and a Terror Tot

Sebastian and 4 Canine Remains.

[xKoBiEx]

Weaver & 2 Dolls.

[Jonas Albrecht]

The Coryphee issue might be over before it starts. What's the wording on Arcanist Asset?

[Mach_5]

"This model may only be hired by crews containing Arcanist Masters."

[Jonas Albrecht]

Well there you go.

[rancor709]

Sounds like fun. Always fun to try something different. We had great success a few months ago running an Avatar event.

The basic premise was you could either start with your master in Avatar form on the table turn 1 or at the end of turn 1 they automatically manifested. No cost for hiring the avatar. Was a great event that was a lot of fun and not your normal malifaux.

Might bring that back out after January as something different but we try masterless malifaux first.

[FearLord]

I really wasn't. The second paragraph was for everyone. Sorry for making you feel like you were on the end of a hostile post.

No, I'm sorry - I was almost certainly over reacting - didn't get much sleep the night before because my daughter wouldn't settle...