ehren37 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I'd like to offer up a contrasting opinion to Mythic Fox and IAmWyrd's reviews on the new plastics and digital sculpting. while this is my first post, I have purchased Malifaux minis for about two years now, and have to say I'm thoroughly disappointed by the drop in quality. I purchased the Hanging Trees and Depleted boxes (and Miss Terious), hoping that the detail would be better than the renders. Unfortunately I think they turned out a bit worse. I opened up the Depleted box set first, and was immediately reminded of bad 90's CGI. The tentacles are extremely smooth, with little to no detail on them, lending the figures themselves to look almost waxy or cartoonish. There are wrinkles and details on the body, but they are so fine I cant imagine painting these with anything other than a few layers of glaze to avoid obliterating the details that do exist. all in all the figures look unreal (and not in a good, otherworldly sense). If it were just the tentacles, I could say it was stylistic, to make them of a seamless, wrinkle free protoplasm, but the cloth doesn't really seem to obey the laws of physics either. The tattered pants leg on the standing model is particularly egregious, as its hanging perfectly flat and still. I primed them with a thin layer of Vallejo surface primer, and ran some washes over them, hoping to draw out more detail. Nada. What you see is what you get. Or don't get in this case. The second box I opened was the nightmare tree. I was hoping the issues with the depleted were perhaps just with that model, or maybe even stylistic choices. No such luck. The overly smooth appearance and lack of texture or detail was just as noticeable, if not more, on the trees and rocks. The hanged Nathan and Eric were equally low in detail, such that the hair on them just appeared to be a flat helmet or skullcap. And for 80 bucks. Sure its a LE, but normally when you charge boutique mini prices, you at least try for boutique mini quality. These don't even compare favorably to the Games Workshop wood, which is available for about a third of the cost. I'd bought these to complement my existing Neverborn crew, but looking over the beautiful detail on Bad Juju (who would be reduced to smooth blobs and a few sticks in this technique), the fleshy wrinkles of the silurids, or the stitched together... these look like they were made by a different company. I didn't even bother opening Miss Terious. I figured I may as well try and sell it MIB on Ebay to recoup some of my money on this failed venture. While the plastic is a bit easier to assemble than some of the Wyrd minis I've worked with in the past, who cares if the end result is a sub par mini? The material is fair, but I would almost prefer it to be more rubbery in parts, particularly on those long, thin, snap-prone pieces. Those Torokage chains? Good luck having them last. In short, Wyrd promised the same quality, but didn't deliver. These aren't GW plastics, Failcast, or even Reaper Bones. I'd say they barely rate a step above the figures from the Last Night on Earth board game in terms of detail. I suppose we'll see if its the plastic, or the digital sculpting technique when the recasts of existing figures are released. Either way, these are a waste of money and time, and the last Wyrd plastic figures I buy until the quality dramatically improves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Sandwhich? Anyway, I 100% disagree. All of my GenCon stuff was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backno Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) First I want to thank ehren37 for actually writing a review with specific reasons why he didn't like the plastics. But I am also going to have to disagree with you. I ended up either winning or buying every single Arcanist model at Gen Con this year and have been blown away with the quality. Things like the wood grains on Mei Feng's exploding wood, the feet of the Rail Golem, or Willie's wheelbarrow or Willies grin/teeth. This are things that would NEVER be that crisp or clean (or even possible) to show in metal. The plastics where also much, much, much, much easier to clean up. In the time it took me to remove all the mold lines from 2 Gunsmiths I was able to clean the entire Rail Crew + assemble a couple of them. Add in being able to use plastic glue and the fact the pieces are lighter I was able to spend less time holding pieces together and more time gluing things together. The only issue I had was on a couple of the really small joints putting a little to much plastic glue on. While I didn't lose any details or anything, I could see people touching the wet spots and leaving fingerprints. The big things is you REALLY should go buy good plastic glue for putting these plastics together. Some of the seams are very small, and trying to greenstuff them would be a giant PitA. I personally swear by the Testors plastic cement. The bottle I have has put together almost 200 Ork soldiers + vehicles as well as 250 Skaven + big things ans is still going strong. http://www.testors.com/product/136635/3507AT/_/Liquid_Cement_1_Oz. Edited September 4, 2012 by Backno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehren37 Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 First I want to thank ehren37 for actually writing a review with specific reasons why he didn't like the plastics. But I am also going to have to disagree with you. I ended up either winning or buying every single Arcanist model at Gen Con this year and have been blown away with the quality. Things like the wood grains on Mei Feng's exploding wood, the feet of the Rail Golem, or Willie's wheelbarrow or Willies grin/teeth. This are things that would NEVER be that crisp or clean (or even possible) to show in metal. Thanks for the reply. By any chance did you get the tree/depleted? I'm wondering if its just those sets sculpts I got that are weak. Though I have to say the flesh/muscles on Willie looks bad CGI/cartoony/waxy from the render. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 That's what I've been wondering as I hear the reports from people, if it's primarily an issue with the Dark Debts box. I got the chance to look over the sprues for the Rail Golem and a Miss Terrious, and they looked awesome, but Lynch and company did seem a little bit different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpiffypants Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 In some ways I agree with you enren37. The Wyrd plastics are pretty frail, and some are lacking quite a bit in detail. The two hanged are very low in detail, and yes a GW tree set is better quality: the grooves are deeper, it's studier and it takes up more space. Having taken a much closer look at the Miss Terious box I'm a little disappointed as well. Just looking at that axe and zombie hand... yup those are gonna snap right off. That said, I think you're arguing more about style than construction. For instance my Lazarus is perfectly made. It's made in the Wyrd style, which people either love or hate, but I'm not seeing any construction errors -Now if only my box had come with a "Card" my point would be better -. I can imagine your frustration, lord knows I felt it fixing my Papa Loco's chain, or my Hanged chain, Jack Daw, Rotten Belles umbrellas, even Leveticus's cane has been a pain. Had similiar problems playing with Moria Goblins (GW), and eventually found a way of working with it. omnivision6: I understand you're a henchman, and thus have invested some care and effort into this hobby, so when a person speaks ill of it a knee jerk reaction is to insult: but couldn't you get the name right? Sandwich did his little rant and took off, end story. Referring to ehren37 as Sandwich doesn't make the conversation any more adult, in fact I'm pretty sure it degrades it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Sandwhich? Anyway, I 100% disagree. All of my GenCon stuff was great. Pretty sure this is unnecessary. I want to hear people's opinions on the quality of the minis they are receiving. I will definitely be looking out for imperfections/faults in everything I have ordered. Would be good to have a statement from Wyrd whether they have had any knowledge that some boxes are coming out faulty... But there is no need to insult the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Monkey Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 In this thread Nathan mentions the possibility of weird plastic mixes.... http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?34652-First-impressions-working-the-new-plastics/page3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Nathan has stated If you get one that is soft on details or 'smells' very heavy of chemicals, odds are you got one that just got some extra funk and didn't finish up properly. We found a Willie last week like that and he was all shiny and had a peculiar odor to him, where as the rest of the sets where matte finished and high in detail. We've taught the warehouse what to look out for now that we ourselves know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Would be good to have a statement from Wyrd whether they have had any knowledge that some boxes are coming out faulty... There was a statement that they had discovered some of the models had a bad 'mix'...were soft and/or had a funky smell....and that they were on the lookout for that after said discovery. They have been great about quality in the past....delaying releases because product wasn't up to par. In fact, some of the things not delivered for gencon this year was because of quality. EDIT: ninja'd....twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Must have missed that thread. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Wolfe Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Any chance you have a camera with a macro lens? Could we get some shots to compare with what we have and maybe provide feedback as to weather what you have is 'normal' (and therefore reinforce you view) or if you have defiantly received a bad batch (so then you can perhaps arrange a replacement and restore faith). I am very interested as I ordered the whole dark debts and never born models set and would like to know what I am looking (or even sniffing) for. I love my metal miniatures, but am keeping an open mind about the plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkoman Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 i completely agree with the OP on the hanging tree. a little disappointed on my 80$ LE model. if feel ilke there should be more detail in the tree itself and not so cartoony (or smooth). but on the other hand my rail crew came out great and im really satisfied with them. the one think im noticing is that with the new digital sculpting Wyrd is losing some of the character that was Malifaux. when placed next to the old scults, they dont seem to fit, style wise. and in fact, im not sure if i would have started Malifaux if the first and only models i ran into where the new ones. not saying i dont like them. but they dont have the same draw that the first ones had on me. (which is a shame cause id miss out on a great game). but that is all just my preference though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupusFerreus Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I don't have an opinion yet as I'm yet to buy any plastic models, but a guy at my LGS said that his Lazarus looked like it lacked character with poses. Something about the pose of "I'm a little teapot". I'm looking forward to seeing some of the other masters and models that were book 3 but unreleased (aHoffman anyone?). Surely that should be good as it's an important model to show the company's skills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utterkhaos Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 so far loveing my plastics. i was at gencon and when eric brought over yamazuko and just started flicking her spear i was thinking it was going to snap or be frail. but it didnt and the plastic took a beating. the detail in my dark debts are very good and i can say in happy with its results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 From the pictures, I also see/feel the loss of character in the minis... they look kinda "artificial", almost android like... if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 This I disagree with. I think they still have great character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpiffypants Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Santiago is a model I find hideous! The original McMourning is just bleh. If they put them into plastic won't change that. It does make it easier for me to convert it, but the easy of conversion didn't stop me from removing Nico's vulture. Nor did it prevent the replacement of McMournings claw with a scalpel. If you look at a lot of Malifaux mini's they are very two dimensional and have a more realistic per portioned sculpt then others on the market right now. I don't think that will change drastically. The alternate sculpts have brought more 3d aspects to the models and I think people are happy with that. The plastics are bringing options to our doors: you have the options of different arms/weapons and the option of posing the models a little more. I do hope they avoid giving us small easily breakable objects like Miss Terious's axe. I'm very worried about how the new Resser entrails-woman will come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Thanks for the review, though I sorely hope I disagree after I receive my tree in the mail. I have mixed feelings about 3D modelling miniatures. It has its pros and cons, which can be said for hand-sculpted models too. One big issue is that I think it's difficult to maintain a tabletop miniature perspective when you're working with the CGI. A sculptor knows how to exaggerate the figure correctly by simply eye-balling his mini as he works on it. I feel like a CG artist will have to perform that skill based on experience from previous prints. I wouldn't be surprised if detail would be less punctuated than on a hand sculpted model. On the bright side, you won't get all of the deformed and inaccurate details that you're guaranteed to find in a hand sculpted model either. I don't know anything about the artists making these new models, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Remember, that there probably is a learning curve involved in these new models too. Just food for thought from an artist, by trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Your tree sounds like it might have just been a bad one. I know there was some issue with gap between the trunk and base but all 16 of the ones I saw put together had crisp Nathan and Erics on them. One thing I hae noticed with the plastics. It may be worth throwing a bit of paint on the model before complaining to much. Its seems like the softer lines tend to not pop on the base plastic but with a base coat and wash they tend to stick out and define a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I prefer the Metal sculpts over the Plastic, but I don't find them bad enough to not play malifaux. Its the game play that drew me. Some of the first Book 1 models I found a little odd (Punk zombies, original flesh construct) and put me off, but the game play drew me in. As the game grew the quality of the sculpts improved and they enjoyment factor increased. Now with the switch to plastic they are forced to change the artists they normally use, since I'm presuming good sculptors don't necessarily translate to graphics artists. This is the first batch from a set of new artists, I figure closer to end of book 4 release the quality will get better. I figure book 5 will be the same level at book 2 was in metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmike Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I picked up everything new at gencon. This includes ordering the arcanist and 10 thunders box online while there. With that said, some models, no they aren't as good as we have seen in the past. However overall I have had a great experience with these plastics so far. My only gripe is with the nightmare tree this year, only because mine doesn't fit inside its core roots well enough and i have to green stuff a huge chunk of the tree, though upside it is taller. Also the ropes snap easily, though that is to be expected with something so tiny in plastic. There will always be something to dislike about a product, no one and nothing is perfect. You have to take the good with the bad. However I would advise opening the miss terious box and checking her out, I have yet to see one of her that i didn't think had great detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Personally having gotten a few of the new plastic minis I prefer the metal hand sculpts. Plastics arent bad, but not great either. Its a work in progress I'd say. And id always rather have exaggerated detail than subtle detail in a miniature. Implementation wise, Id rather have the larger models all made in plastic while keeping the smaller ones metal. Get the a little of the best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehren37 Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Any chance you have a camera with a macro lens? Could we get some shots to compare with what we have and maybe provide feedback as to weather what you have is 'normal' (and therefore reinforce you view) or if you have defiantly received a bad batch (so then you can perhaps arrange a replacement and restore faith). My camera isnt all that great, but I'll see what I can do when I get home. They didnt smell funny, or look goopy or anything, the detail just was really lacking. I dont think my trees are aberrant from what I can see... like the rocks are just smooth blobs with no cracks or texture, but this matches other pics I've now seen. I am very interested as I ordered the whole dark debts and never born models set and would like to know what I am looking (or even sniffing) for. I love my metal miniatures, but am keeping an open mind about the plastics. I actually don't have anything against plastics, and recognize that the lighter weight allows some additional freedom when designing sculpts. I'm thinking the main issue might be the digital sculpting. For instance on the rocks, a green in hand would reveal that, yeah, you need to texture up that blank smooth space, but it might not come off as needed in the digital model. The sculpting process in itself leaves physical artifacts, which make it feel more organic. Which is why I compared it to early CGI, which often lacked good weight and physics. Edited September 4, 2012 by ehren37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 The more I hear about the trees and plastics in general the less I like... Especially the trees, considering the price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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