C. Hoffman; night terror hunter (a highly mobile core of pulsing death)

[bashamer]

So after Gencon I tried to figure out how guild could hunt down clusters of night terrors. It looks like C. Hoffman has the best mobility to get this done; and he can effectively fly.

The following is a core; add models to taste

Guild Crew - 23 - Core

C. Hoffman

--

4 Pool

Mobile Toolkit [4ss]

• Performer & Mannequin
  [8ss]
  
  
• Performer & Mannequin
  [8ss]
  
  
• Watcher
  [3ss]
  
  

So this is the setup; Mannequin activates and links to the watcher (ignoring rules is fun); Mannequin 2 activates and links to the watcher. Hoffman copies link and links to the watcher. Now if the watcher moves Hoffman can tag along and end his movement surrounded by 4 constructs; as the Toolkit tags along as well. Those are 6 damage pulses with a +4 casting. it is pretty funny.

If you don't need fly you can link to a guild hound so you can companion Hoffman; only 5 damage pulses with a +3 casting, but hey, you get to chain your activations.

you don't need 2 performers, just 1 to be able to copy link and have the portable +3 armor to take with; but if you have 2 you can heal a lot as both performers can repair each other 2 times a round (ignoring slow).

Hoffman w/ beautiful clothes is also an amusing option; but I'm unsure if you can copy object as it is not in the usual talent section.

[Forar]

I find this way funnier than it has any right being, and might just be what pushes me over the edge towards grabbing Colette's box set at some point in the future.

[Guy in Suit]

Heh, yeah, this is very creative. Kudos.

[Dracomax]

Wait...can hoffman hire performers? They aren't constructs.

[Guy in Suit]

Is it an MS&U thing? I'd be sad if this was illegal, cuz its just so damn funny!

[Forar]

Apparently you can, according to the Crew Creator. You can hire Performer & Mannequin pairs for 8ss (it just costs +2 rather than the usual +1 due to them being High Class).

Edit: and it's not an unknown approach either. In the "Propose a Hoffman crew to me" thread someone mentioned trying a Magical Playdate in Wonderland build that linked a Mannequin to an enemy master and had them try to punch it to death.

[FearLord]

They are Mercenaries though...

All looks pretty good though, but I'm pretty sure theres a ruling saying you cannot ignore slow with Maintain Machines... I could easily be wrong thoug, so I'll have a search when I get home later (this may be different where it is printed on the card...)

[Forar]

Well, Maintain Machines says that constructs may ignore any of their Abilities, whereas Slow shows up under the Mannequin's Actions.

[Sholto]

That's hilarious - good catch

Funnily enough I have a Brawl doubles coming up, and a Hoffman/ Colette pairing could really make this one fly (groan!)

[Forar]

Well, it'd have to start with Colette as the first Master, which would make the Performer/Mannequin pairs cheaper, but also loses access to the Guild models. Funnily, still has access to Coppelius.

So you lose the Watcher for flight/mobility. Doves are too small to be a ride. The Duet would be a pretty awesome (if expensive) way to get around for Hoffman. Or the Mechanical Rider, if you wanted a less SS intensive option.

[bashamer]

not sure on the copying link; you might have to hitch a ride on a rider and liunk things to the rider.

Going to have to reread those rules.

if you can copy link the hound one wins;

Active hound (close to an other hound), companion master, run 18"

Activate hoffman, pulse 3 times and make the toolkit slow

Activate the maniquin w/ your 0 (and do whatever else)

Companion the manequins, use the 0 to use soulstones and polish off anything that survived the 15 damage from pulses.

if you win initiative and your opponent does not know this is possible you might whipe some crews straight off the board turn 2.

Honeslty I was just looking for ways to kill night terrors, but at 15-18 damage to everything w/in 3" a lot more things would die.

I was also looking at performers in guild as the sirens call is probably the most valauble in guild; there is so little movement of enemy models in the faction that it really is tempting; altough the 5 point lure that can accept 2 differnet suits is sweet as well.

[Sholto]

The pulses will kill the Hounds, as they are not Constructs.

I don't see any problem with Assimilating Link. Once it used it lasts until the models are not in B2B at the end closing phase. This came up a few weeks ago when I was posting about using Lazarus with Colette.

(Don't want to derail, but in a Colette/ Hoffman list Hoffman could Link to the Doves! Even more mobile than the Watchers, although the Watchers cannot be blocked by disengaging Strikes, which could come in handy.

Interesting question. If Hoffman Assimilated (0) Subconscious Actions from a Duet, how many (0) Actions could he perform that Turn?)

Edited August 23, 2012 by Sholto

[bashamer]

I'd say the hound got his point worth.

[Dracomax]

On taking Hoffman with Collette:bigger problem for Hoffman is that Coryphee doesn't have armor. Hoffman would be very squishy if the only construct he had nearby was coryphee.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Dracomax
because there were post in between my response I didn't see

[Forar]

To be fair, the hound would also die, if I'm not mistaken, as it's not a construct.

... okay, that's a pretty small price to pay to potentially wipe a good chunk of the opposition out in one turn.

Edit: beaten.

Depending on the board, a Watcher might be better (14" flight versus 18" walked), and also acts as another construct for improving Hoff's cast and pulse damage.

Note: I have no experience with the Hounds yet, and recognize that I may be unaware of some of their features.

It seems the math would indicate that even in a straight line this couldn't be done in one turn against Standard deployment (crews start 6" in, run 18, 3" pulse falls just short), but corner or diagonal deployment may well let you start close enough to make it happen. Hell, with corners you could probably do it even with a slower ride.

On taking Hoffman with Collette:bigger problem for Hoffman is that Coryphee doesn't have armor. Hoffman would be very squishy if the only construct he had nearby was coryphee.

If it's a big enough brawl to include a Performer/Mannequin as well, however, he becomes significantly beefier. That armor 3 is quite impressive.

Also, it's made me look at Colette/Hoffman/Kaeris Super Star Tag Teams that make me giggle.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Forar

[bashamer]

but is you link a manequin to him you always have 3 armor; well almost always.

the hound has companion master; that is it's selling point.

turn 1 you link, so it really would not work. turn 2 is the earliest.

Well; actions are talents. So I think this is all legal.

Edited August 23, 2012 by bashamer

[Dracomax]

Okay, I think this is an error in the character creator, but if it's not...I want to brawl....According to the the CC, I can take Lazarus in a collette led brawl crew with Hoffman as the second master. So, Either it's wrong(most likely, IMO) or Hoffman doesn't count as guild when hired by Collette(in which case, I want him to assimilate showgirl solely for my amusement)

[Hateful Darkblack]

Okay, I think this is an error in the character creator, but if it's not...I want to brawl....According to the the CC, I can take Lazarus in a collette led brawl crew with Hoffman as the second master. So, Either it's wrong(most likely, IMO) or Hoffman doesn't count as guild when hired by Collette(in which case, I want him to assimilate showgirl solely for my amusement)

I think you're right. That's an error.

[Jonas Albrecht]

So after Gencon I tried to figure out how guild could hunt down clusters of night terrors. It looks like C. Hoffman has the best mobility to get this done; and he can effectively fly.

So simply and clever. I am kicking myself for not seeing the obvious potential in copying (0) Link.

My hat's off to you, good sir. Or madam.

[snord]

So tonight I decided to give this idea a try just for the laughs with a good friend. He was half-aware of Hoffman's blow up skills, but not completely aware of how it works. So I played:

Hoffman + 7ss

Mobile Toolkit

Peacekeeper

2 Performers

2 Manekins

Watcher

He played:

Dreamer + 6ss

Chompy

2 Daydreams

2 Insidious Madness

Stitched

Copelius

2 Night Terrors

First turn I linked one Manequin to Hoffman, one to Manequin to the Peacekeeper, and Hoffman took a ride with the Peacekeeper stopping in melee with the 2 Night terrors. Dreamer activates, flies 14" forward and drops Chompy on Hoffman, gives out some damage, and buries chomp bringing back the Dreamer.

Hoff activates, kills both Night Terrors, a daydream and the Dreamer. Chompy is back with Copelius (that was buried).

Round 2, he wins iniative, activates Copelius and fails to paralize Hoff. Hoff activates, kills Copelius and Chompy, and rides toward the stitched. He gives up.

End balance: Hoffman's crew, none dead. Dreamer´s crew: Dreamer, Chompy, Copelius, Daydream and 2 Night Terrors dead.

It was a game just for fun and he was unprepared for that, but it shows how dangerous this thing is. Obviously no one will fall for that 2 times, but still pretty cool for a change.

Edited August 24, 2012 by snord

[bashamer]

like any trick, people will learn.

you counter this list by splitting up; except that if you split up the performers can split you up more than you want to using the sirens call.

So it is actually not a very easy list to play against as it punishes clumping as well as punishes over extending.

[011121]

How'd you kill the dreamer?

[tadaka]

Here is the problem with hunting night terrors with this. Your playing a very small crew vs if they are buying enough night terrors for this to be worthwhile they can out activate you then run and do what they brought them there for to start with. Its a nice trick but just that a trick. As said above it would probably work once or twice then people you play will learn and it becomes worthless.

[Turbodog]

Interesting question. If Hoffman Assimilated (0) Subconscious Actions from a Duet, how many (0) Actions could he perform that Turn?)

Really, REALLY not useful to do this.

You'd have two zero actions - one of which can't be assimilate! It's similar to how if a model has melee expert (+1) and gains melee master (+2) it only has 2 extra melee attacks, not 3. They don't stack - the bigger one effectively overwrites. This is an exception to the "different named abilities do stack" rule of thumb.

Effectively you do this:

Activate Hoffman and you have two zero actions for the activation. (Instinctual +1)

Use one of those on assimilate to get SA. Since you already had instinctual, this adds only one more zero action to Hoffman. Or to put it another way, your "pool" of AP is counted as having 3 zero actions total instead of 2. But you just used one, so your at two zero actions (same as when you started)

And unlike when you started, you've now used assimilate and since they must be DIFFERENT zero actions, you can't assimilate again.

Net gain...nothing. Net loss - can't use assimilate for your remaining zero actions.

[Adran]

First turn I linked one Manequin to Hoffman, one to Manequin to the Peacekeeper, and Hoffman took a ride with the Peacekeeper stopping in melee with the 2 Night terrors.

Fun idea, but you'll need to look carefully at link. I don't think in this example your second manniquin wil be in Base contact with Hoffman for his pulsing of death unless you take a walk action.