bashamer

So between lack of painting time and trouble getting rulings I'm not going to play in the Saturday tournament. Who wants my ticket ?

Any chance for a ruling? I know that once the testing starts on the new edition the change for this happening will be pretty low; so I'd figure that I'd give it a last chance.

any chance on a clarification? I'd really appreciate one.

yup, makes sense. so we'll see if a rules marshal can clear up the last bit. Thanks for the input.

yeah, I disagree there; the rules are exactly a program and where they are not clear and there is no clarification you end up in the argument phase. Something I tend to try and avoid at army construction as much as possible. So for instance I play some person from an other town, and they tell me that I can't ignore an ability during my activation because I did not declare it when I entered the aura. Insert argument here; but that interpretation is just as valid as the double dipping on harmless. For the ability there is no information as to when it starts or what the duration is for the ignoring. Maybe once you ignore it, it is until end of turn (think that is the default in this game)? So if you want to play against people you don't know, and you don't want to have an argument you either play Hoffman and avoid that ability (yeah I'll pass; he seems a bit lacking w/o it) or you don't play that master until you know how his rules work. Or you need a TO and get your ruling of the day; and hope they don't say "I'll tell you when/if it happens."

Depends on when things trigger, if there are distinct steps (witch there are) then as long as one checks during step 2 and the other during step 4 it might be possible. Really it comes down to timing of the maintain machines, and well there is no timing listed. I'm planning on playing Hoffman so I'm trying to understand how his rules work, and honestly the more I look at them the less comfortable I am explaining the timing etc. Depending on the outcome of this the next question is can a trap provide cover (ignoring tiny) and can that be done so that I pick after the target is declared. or do I pick what rules I use for the duration of an action or activation.

So how would the timing work on the clockwork trap making an attack after being primed w/in the aura of maintain machines? can I double dip or would that actually end harmless. As there is no timing on maintain machines it gets kinda wobbly.

as Hoffman allows you to ignore traits, can you ignore harmless while performing an action so the ending isn't triggered, and just get it back once you are done.

well as the new scenario counts models having 4 elite models means that your opponent will have a very hard time killing more of your models a turn then they kill of yours and 4x7 => 28 leaving a good ss pool after the fact. I don't think that 4 minion crews are a good idea but they might just be fantastic with the new mission.

so a 4 model guild crew really feels like we are missing out on the awesome stuff guild can bring. So lets consider beatdown w/ the intend of having more models (and out activating.) but first lets check the rules for any corner cases that would be good. [code]At the end of each Turn after the first, if a player has no models in the game, his or her opponent scores 1 VP. Otherwise the Crew that killed or sacrificed the most enemy models scores 1 VP. A player may score up to a maximum of 4 VP for this Strategy.[/code] So if we sacrifice our own models it is ok, and if we bring something like a clockwork trap that self sacrifices if you get to close than that is an awesome self defense mechanism. not only that you paralyze 20% of their crew. After that our self sacrifice starts to pewter out a bit. but our ability to paralyze does not. Wadrens for instance love to out activate and paralyze. So now we have 2 sources of Paralysis, and we might as well add some more. Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap Lucas McCabe -- 8 Pool + Relic: Hunter's Cloak [1ss] + Relic: Invigorating Bridle [1ss] Clockwork Trap [2ss] Clockwork Trap [2ss] Clockwork Trap [2ss] Peacekeeper [9ss] Warden [5ss] Warden [5ss] The peacekeeper is normally really bad, but normally your opponent gets to activate models and do stuff. And well, if we assume 4-5 models, we might just be able to reduce his activations to 1 a turn, maybe even 0. all of which makes him a great cleanup model. oh the relics are filler, flavor to taste.

sweet; so if that is the table there are a few things that are really good. charge ranges; you have nice empty spaces so charging is easy. Guns, there is lots of LoS Pushes / pulls (free straight lines) So if you have to hunt down a night terror there are very few places they could go where you flat out could not touch them. Sonnia suffers a bit as you can't easily anchor your flame wall to some other piece of terrain for large LoS blocking (try and place the templates and see how much of an angle you protect LoS from, now add a few 5'x5' boxes to your table (and redistribute ther est of the terrain) and see how you cna use those walls when you add them to the end of a box. Sometimes you can even block of entire alleyways.) . but Perdita gains as you can get some pretty good shots off. Due to the lack of choke points you want to focus on having a crew w/o a squishy center as flanking is very easy. And this also means that you don't need a model to hold a choke point. So the guild 4 point lineup really shines here, and using justice as a master means that the +2 CB likely affects your entire crew. Austringers are awesome, but you you'll have LoS anyway. So they don't use all their functionality.

Guild has to tailor to terrain more than other crews. the lack of flight, float, spirit, pathfinder, MOV, etc. makes it very important that you get the right models to the right location. Because you pay a premium for speed in guild you really don't want to over invest in it. so post a few pictures of your table and we can probably get a better idea of what would be a god match.

Slow is a rule on the mannequin; which is again ignoble. you can ignore: Clumsy; Performers Clothes; Slow; which really changes the model; you can copy: Link, Armor 3, beautiful clothes, Mirrors (I think it could affect the Hoff as it specifies "this model") The 2 mannequins also can start repairing each other if need be; and fixing Hoffman in the process. For treasure hunt; 1. dog runs, Hoffman makes 1 mannequin slow, picks up treasure; hands treasure to Mannequin 2; chain activates Mannequin 1. Mannequin 1 links to mannequin 2; mannequin 2 walks 4" back and hands the treasure to the warden; warden can walk into the deployment zone activation 2. And yes, any alpha strike list is not necessarily a fun list to play against; especially if it has a slingshot. And this has one that might make the dreamer a little sad these days. Hoffman is not going to be easy to kill either As for the dog; yes they are a weakpoint. I also have 8 activation before I have to more the dog. performers x2 warden second dog trap -mannequin link -mannequin link -Hoffman link --primary dog runs. so 9 activations at 30 ss; at 35 you get a the trap setter in there for 12 activations. so not too bad when it comes to out activating people. as for spreading out the modes; I'll look into Wraslers. the stalkers I'm no fan of, and the guards seem to want more guards. But guards could be good vs archaists to shut down the movement based schemes.

Boy it'd be nice if I could edit the title; as only the alpha strike ended up run by Hoffman. So I'm looking at Hoffman and Justice for starting to play guild next year. List 1: Alpha strike + attrition Guild Crew - 30 - Scrap C. Hoffman -- 6 Pool Clockwork Trap [2ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Performer & Mannequin [8ss] Performer & Mannequin [8ss] Warden [5ss] So active the hound w/ Hoffman linked and companion Hoffman move 18-21" and slingshot Hoffman and 2 mannequins (all linked to the hound) then either pulse 3 times, or some combination of pulsing and machine pupping himself. Companion the mannequin you made slow from Hoffman so she can wander over to the other mannequin and link& companion the other mannequin. then the last companion activates and walks of 8" dragging the other mannequin and Hoffman along. The rest of the crew focuses on paralysis and poison 4; with the alpha strike I should have activation control starting round 3 (the companion chain round 2 probably will mean I'll be out activated). The list also has a good spread among the suits. Good scenarios; deliver the message; containing power, escape and survive, supply wagon, treasure hunt (Hoffman picks up for 2, transfers for 1, and the mannequin walks back home 8" dragging everything along), Neverborn; Reserectionists Bad matchups: Guild, archaists; constructs and high wounds + ranged attacks. List 2 attrition (wide attrition) Guild Crew - 30 - Scrap Lady Justice -- 7 Pool + Justice, Avatar of Balance [2ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Peacekeeper [9ss] loads and loads of attacks. decent range and decent threat ranges plus loads of wounds. on top of that there are loads of ranged attacks to help handle wider scenarios. List 3 (capture the center scenarios) Guild Crew - 30 - Scrap Lady Justice -- 6 Pool + Justice, Avatar of Balance [2ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Death Marshal [4ss] Oiran [5ss] Oiran [5ss] Its a variant on the wide list but more focused on drawing people out of cover or into melee range. making it better to sit in the center and wait / force people to come to you. I'm not sold on the Oiran sculpt as it really doesn't match the rest of the models in style. but I do like the idea of lure in guild, and luring my own models seems worth it to transfer AP to lady justice. Plus it allows the threat range of the ball of doom to be 16" rather than 10". that means I can pretty much cover the entire table from the center. 2 might be excessive, but it is easier to test when people can't snipe the model you want to test.

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yeah not being a perfect machine opens up some risks.

yeah I'm kinda interested in him because I expect Hoffman to end up in the middle of the enemy crew w/o support. So he might work under those conditions.

ah, did not find that post. Yeah I'm looking forward to trying him out, a 2 AP master w/ an ALL action seems like it is a significant drawback so I wonder how well he stands up. I honestly don't see it yet, but we'll see.

so... is he still planned for release ? I'm actually a little interested in trying him out to see if he will surprise me.

if you run against Raspy and she ignores pulses you can just make melee attacks w/ Hoffman; So vs Raspy; turn 1 link to a guild hound after copying link; link the mannequin to the hound as well. First activation of turn 2; activate the hound, companion Hoffman, run 18" with the hound (or some silly number) and get Hoffman into melee range w/ Raspy; Hoffman goes, machine puppets 3 attacks vs Raspy. Raspy should be dead, and you have a (0) to use. and yes, this is worse than drawn to metal, but it allows you to use it on other modes, like a guild hound. And chances are that your opponent will need 2 + activation to drop the mannequin giving you time to get Hoffman out. So get in, get out, lose a hound and a mannequin.

you can take him, you just have to be mindful that you need a different crew composition. I think a better rules is "don't take 8+ ss constructs against archanists"

dear lord that is a neverborn heavy meta 11 out of 24 day 1, 8 out of 24 day 2.

well it does allow Hoff to cast beautifull clothes. Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap C. Hoffman -- 8 Pool Mobile Toolkit [4ss] Performer & Mannequin [8ss] Performer & Mannequin [8ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Guild Hound [3ss] Warden [5ss] Link hoffman to a guild hound; link manequins to a guild hound; move hound close enough to get the extra move from the other hound. Then win initiate, activate the link ball, companion hoffman, run 18" and either pulse everything to death or machine puppet murder something else. warden is nice as it can almost keep up. longer discussion : http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?34701-C-Hoffman-night-terror-hunter-(a-highly-mobile-core-of-pulsing-death)

ok, so assuming neverborn. 1. Don't bring big guys, not worth it. 2. Win innitiative, she really really wants toa ctivate cassandra and the duet first, and she can't. But both of these models have 0 actions that really help them survive. 3. Out activate her I'd really suggest Collodi & Effigies + stitched against her. Dissasemble is a bit of a problem for the duet, stitched and arcane effigy can wreck her hand well past to point of resistance, and the prevelance of object will be a great help. But you beat her by wrecking her hand and her soulstone cache. Collodi + effigies can activate 11 models if he wins innitiative, not to mention that they are all fast, half of them have guns, and you even have models that can prevent cheating. That is my neverborn advice; honestly don't know dreamer well enough to give specific advice there. I guess Corpelius is sweet w/ his auto 4 damage tough. In other factions, bring spam, lots of cheap models to make his big models very hard to use. Oh, and if you have guild; http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?34701-C-Hoffman-night-terror-hunter-(a-highly-mobile-core-of-pulsing-death) That will catch them, just machine puppet yourself for melee attacks vs the duet. Or override the duet It is fast, it is powerfull, but it is very fragile as his first 23 points are effectively 2 models. if either does not carry it's weight the game is over.