Finnegan Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hello all, I'm intrigued by the Doppleganger model. I've looked it up on the PullmyFinger wiki, where I found a possible synergy with Pandora. Would anyone care to contribute their own preferred uses for it? Off the top of my head, I imagined she could mimic a model's height 1 as well as any other useful talent then be buried by a Stiched's Abduction, thus keeping the talent for the next turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 One of the tricks pointed around on these forums was to use with Zoraida, and have a Stitched together hanging around. Mimic: Wp 10 from zoraida Mimic: Gamble your life from the Stitched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Here's a few nasty tricks for use with Pandora. Turn 1 have a Sorrow nearby and the DG in b2b with Pandora. Mimic Link and Link to Pandora. Since Link defines when it ends the condition will persist past the end of the turn. Now you can tote the DG around with you to copy Pandora's Emotional Trauma, causing 2 Wds per failed WP duel within 12". Have the DG and a Sorrow both in B2B with each other and Pandora. DG copies Pandora's Unhealthy Relationship which allows Woes in B2B with her to use her 0 Actions. Now the DG copies Emotional Trama. The Sorrow as it is in B2B with the DG who has Unhealthy Relationship, can use the DG's Mimic to also Mimic Pandora's Emotional Trauma. Now enemy Models lose 3 Wds for every WP duel they fail within 12" of the cluster, and 4 Wds if they fail within 3" of the Sorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nore Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Holy $&!t, why have I not seen this before?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Fetid, normally I'd rage at you, but luckily the guy who ran our slow grow league has already told Finnegan about that combo. But given he probably totally forgot about it, I'm saving my rage just in case ;3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 ... copy Pandora's Emotional Trauma, causing 2 Wds per failed WP duel within 12"... Wouldn't this fail under the stacking effects rules? It would be multiple instances of an ability with the same name - so shouldn't it apply to the target model only once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokis222 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I believe the unofficial name for that one outside of tournaments is "how to lose friends and make enemies". It's damn near broken. With soulstones and luck, you can wipe out a bunch of little guys turn two. Toss in one or two of the guys who give the minus to Wp and you can call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshimartian Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Um, correct me ifI'm wrong, but since DG lacks the martyr ability, wouldn't the sorrow slowly kill DG via Leech Life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well, yes, but if you need to heal the Doppleganger can Mimic healing, and using the trick, if the opponent is not ready for it, has helped me pretty much table my regular opponent repeatedly but the end of turn two, as I usually run Two Lilitu as well. This also feeds into the trick because as the Doppleganger is taking wounds the two Lilitu are healing her up. Be careful of trying this trick if the opponent has any major kind of blasts, as the three key models to pull this trick off are always clustered together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wouldn't this fail under the stacking effects rules? It would be multiple instances of an ability with the same name - so shouldn't it apply to the target model only once? No because it's multiple instances of immediate effects, not ongoing effects. Same if you lose a WP dual within 3" of multiple sorrows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Um, correct me ifI'm wrong, but since DG lacks the martyr ability, wouldn't the sorrow slowly kill DG via Leech Life? This is only the case if you link the sorrow to the doppelganger, if both are linked to Pandora,it is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 No because it's multiple instances of immediate effects, not ongoing effects. Same if you lose a WP dual within 3" of multiple sorrows Ok - I've always taken things like that as ongoing effects as they're always active. If this is the case ... :) Also: WP duel, not dual (I wouldn't normally bother, but you do have a grammar comment for a sig). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I believe the unofficial name for that one outside of tournaments is "how to lose friends and make enemies". Aye, that's not a very nice combo to pull off on the unsuspecting, nor on the suspecting for that matter. Keep 'em coming, peeps! I can see the Doppleganger as a maelstrom of potential. we just need the right model combos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcalla Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 And don't forget the fact that the DG has a -twist to your opponents initiative flips. That alone makes it very Good as not alot effects initiative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I do wish people would stop recommending that Unhealthy Relationship combo! It needs fixing. One good reason: nothing else that gets suggested in this thread will be remotely as powerful as that combo. It reduces the Doppelgänger to a one-trick model which, if you aren't following that exact chain of actions, you're wasting. Such a potential for rich and diverse uses if Mimic, but why bother if you can just "table your opponent repeatedly by the end of Turn 2". Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I do wish people would stop recommending that Unhealthy Relationship combo! It needs fixing. One good reason: nothing else that gets suggested in this thread will be remotely as powerful as that combo. It reduces the Doppelgänger to a one-trick model which, if you aren't following that exact chain of actions, you're wasting. Such a potential for rich and diverse uses if Mimic, but why bother if you can just "table your opponent repeatedly by the end of Turn 2". Mike That's the reason why I made this thread: I'm sure we can figure out some other good tricks if we put our minds to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The reason I'm recommending it is that the only way that Wyrd will change things is if there is a concrete enough reason to do so. The only way that happens is if the stuff that needs fixing is used so that there is enough outcry and demonstrable evidence of the fact that certain combos are OP. Do you think the Alp Bomb would have been changed if people didn't use it repeatedly. I don't think the combo is broken, but I do think it's OP, but if I hid how to do it from the general player group, and only people that figured it out on there own used it, do you think there would ever be any chance it would change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLDRAGE Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Against Som'er, I once copied Reckless and Take a Swig to make 3 healing flips on Pandora after she took damage from Mosquitoes and Stuffed Piglets. It's not a combo per say, but sometimes your opponent has better stuff worth copying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 What Fetid says. If its not used and not seen out in the field no one will ever come up with counters. Its a tough nut to crack but like fetid said a few good blasts breaks it quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokis222 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Against Som'er, I once copied Reckless and Take a Swig to make 3 healing flips on Pandora after she took damage from Mosquitoes and Stuffed Piglets. It's not a combo per say, but sometimes your opponent has better stuff worth copying. i am still learning but that is how i see it being used. the negative initiative flip is really nice and that copy ability is incrdibly versitile. i am a big fan of lure. set her up with a lure and fading memory can pull important units out of position and keep her safe. need to test it out, but in the right place, it could be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The 'Ganger is just about worth her SS cost simply for the negative twist to initiative alone, the fact that she can do other things just ices the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Keep 'em coming, folks, don't let my hopes die unfulfilled! Let's simply ignore that nasty Pandora/Sorrows trick and focus on new options for mimic. So far we got: - Zoroida's Wp 10 + Stiched's Gamble your life - Som'Er's Reckless and Take a Swig for healing an important friendly model - ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I recently tried the Zoraidatron, and it was beautiful. The best bit is that the Doppelganger's copy range is 8" iirc, so you can create a fairly wide coverage between her and the Stitched with Zoraida staying out of trouble. Another fun trick which comes from playing the same Crew is that the 'ganger can employ Wicked Dolls' "Hag's Toys" to teleport to Zoraida as a 0 action. This gives you a Significant model with insane mobility and also provides a means of keeping that -flip to opponents' initiative well out of trouble. While we're on the topic of playing Doppelganger with Zoraida, she lets you squeeze out one more Obey should you have the cards for it. I'm sure that there are plenty of other hilarious tricks with her, but those are the only ones that I've personally pulled off with the Doppelganger in a single game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm currently trying to focus on uses for the nurse and think it could work well in a Zoraida list and a DG. Neverborn Crew - 35 - Scrap Zoraida, the Hag -- 5 Pool Bayou Gremlin [3ss]Doppelganger [8ss]Nurse [6ss]Stitched Together [5ss]Stitched Together [5ss]Sue [8ss] First Nurse gives Sue and the DG reactivate, but get sacrificed at end of turn. DG activates Copies shrugged off and something else interesting, preferably reckless form a cheap gremlin (it stays past 1 activation) or Stitches gamble life. Moves up. Sue actives moves up, does normal stuff. Sue activates positions, puts up aura for +2 WP, (0) for shrugged off. The DG then can copy Zoraida WP 10, use the gamble life 3 times, and last (0) for shrugged off removing end of turn sacrifice. I know that is a perfect activation sequence and most games won't allow it, but having the DG get reactivate with Sue's Shrugged off is a solid foundation for it. you have the following combos Nurse & Sue (massive dose & shrugged off) Nurse & Sue & DG (massive dose & shrugged off & Mimic) Zoraida & DG & Stitched (WP10, and gamble you life & Mimic) Zoraida & Sue (Obey & 12 ranged weapon) Stitched & Sue (Gamble you life & +2 WP from Sue) Bayou Grem & Nurse (well... boosting a Grem until it blows up is just fun) DG & Bayou grem (mimic & reckless) ---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ---------- Another fun trick which comes from playing the same Crew is that the 'ganger can employ Wicked Dolls' "Hag's Toys" to teleport to Zoraida as a 0 action. This gives you a Significant model with insane mobility and also provides a means of keeping that -flip to opponents' initiative well out of trouble. \i don't think its possible for the DG to copy that... it names Zoraida (even though on doll) specifically and so Mimic says can't copy those abilities. This also includes Summon Voodoo doll. The ability names VooDoo Doll specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zwergenkrieger Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Pretty nice thread here! It seems to me that I´m not the only person who troubles to get enough out of Doppelgangers 8 SS. I heavily fail to find a good use of the Doppelganger in EVERY round. IMO you need to get a model with a good ranged weapon to utilize DGs potential in early turns. To add something worthy: Because the Doppelganger often is your most expensive minion sometimes it´s a good idea to copy Stitched Togethers Does not Die! if your opponent chose certain schemes in which he has to kill your most expensive minion. The 'Ganger is just about worth her SS cost simply for the negative twist to initiative alone, the fact that she can do other things just ices the cake. I have to disagree here! In fact, you can´t control the intiative with Doppelganger in a constructive way. You always have to "give" that negative twist to your opponent no matter what. That means you´ll win initiative in turns you rather like to give initiative to your opponent. IMO Insidious Madness is a better way to influence the flow of battle due to sacrificing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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