Steampunk Arachnid scatter and reassemble question

[Drake]

Ok so a question for you...This tactc came into my head yesterday whilst trying out Ramos for the first time....

I have a SPA Swarm, and attack with it for its 2 Melee Master attacks at a enemy model, I then (1) scatter, to seperate into 3 spiders.

Q, If I then Combat Mechanic one of them to turn it into scrap (healing another), then create a new spider using the scrap, can that spider now take the (1) action to form a new SPA Swarm with the other 2 still there?

The rule for the scatter says the spiders cant reform into the swarm on the same turn, but the spider activating the (1) action to create the swarm is a new spider, and therefore is not subject to the limitation to not being able to create a new swarm. The new Swarm could obviously not break down again ( unless you then give the Swarm Reactivate and do all this shennagan again!)

It seems a great way of making Ramos' crew a bit more competitive...

So does the above tactic work?

I like the idea of having a swarm attack, scatter for 3 more latch on's/attacks, then create a new swarm with some of those models, attack again then re-activate from the Brass Arachnid, attack again, scatter and some more attacks!!!

[sephiroa]

Ok so a question for you...This tactc came into my head yesterday whilst trying out Ramos for the first time....

I have a SPA Swarm, and attack with it for its 2 Melee Master attacks at a enemy model, I then (1) scatter, to seperate into 3 spiders.

Q, If I then Combat Mechanic one of them to turn it into scrap (healing another), then create a new spider using the scrap, can that spider now take the (1) action to form a new SPA Swarm with the other 2 still there?

The rule for the scatter says the spiders cant reform into the swarm on the same turn, but the spider activating the (1) action to create the swarm is a new spider, and therefore is not subject to the limitation to not being able to create a new swarm. The new Swarm could obviously not break down again ( unless you then give the Swarm Reactivate and do all this shennagan again!)

It seems a great way of making Ramos' crew a bit more competitive...

So does the above tactic work?

I like the idea of having a swarm attack, scatter for 3 more latch on's/attacks, then create a new swarm with some of those models, attack again then re-activate from the Brass Arachnid, attack again, scatter and some more attacks!!!

i think it can, but I'm not sure

[Drake]

Thanks for your contribution Sephoria.

I think that is how it would work.

Any more comments to agree, or any rulings on this?

[CannonFodder]

I think its viable, I double checked the wording on combat mechanic and its Kill not sacrifice so the scrap token is created. It's a little card intensive.

As for the reactivate, I find the Mobile toolkit much better than the brass arachnid. Considering that I find Ramos without it to be a hit or miss based on you luck getting :tomes.

[Drake]

I think its viable, I double checked the wording on combat mechanic and its Kill not sacrifice so the scrap token is created. It's a little card intensive.

As for the reactivate, I find the Mobile toolkit much better than the brass arachnid. Considering that I find Ramos without it to be a hit or miss based on you luck getting :tomes.

The beauty of the tactic though is that with a 4th spider, you dont even need to combat mechanic one of the original 3, thats just a bonus if you have a spare 2+ of Crows in hand to get the spell off (very low casting cost!)

As for Brass Arachnid, it takes 1 of 5 cards to pull off, so simply holding on to a card in the first turn or 2 or even third turn, to give you the card you need to pull it off....thats where Surge comes in to increase the likelyhood of getting the card you need for the Reactivate...and if you have both Ramos and Kaeris in the crew, who both have Surge, its more chances of card cycling....

Zee did brilliantly in the Master of Malifaux tournament at GenCon this year with Ramos, coming 3rd I think it was, otu of about 50 odd players, and using the Brass Arachnid...it may be harder to use, but played well the benefits are much greater!

[Trag Sifarin]

Zee did brilliantly in the Master of Malifaux tournament at GenCon this year with Ramos, coming 3rd I think it was, otu of about 50 odd players, and using the Brass Arachnid...it may be harder to use, but played well the benefits are much greater!

Zee was the one running that tournament. I got 3rd Outcasts and 1st and 2nd were Neverborn. I don't think Arcanists were in the top 10. Zee did well with Ramos at a east coast tournament.

[dgraz]

I would think not. It says that the Spider's' may not swarm together again this turn. So even if the one activating it is new, the others are not. Being in the swarm prevents them from being part of any swarm this turn.

[Stern]

I would think not. It says that the Spider's' may not swarm together again this turn. So even if the one activating it is new, the others are not. Being in the swarm prevents them from being part of any swarm this turn.

This was the understanding I had with the card saying models not model

[sephiroa]

I would think not. It says that the Spider's' may not swarm together again this turn. So even if the one activating it is new, the others are not. Being in the swarm prevents them from being part of any swarm this turn.

that was my other thought, but then again, they are not the one doing the action. scatter says: the steampunk arachnids may not swarm together this turn. i think they mean the action

i think we need an RM for this

[Drake]

that was my other thought, but then again, they are not the one doing the action. scatter says: the steampunk arachnids may not swarm together this turn. i think they mean the action

i think we need an RM for this

Exactly what Sephoria said.

The description under the "Swarm Together" seems to refer to the action rather than the effect, so if that is the case then aslong as it is a new spider not originally in the swarm then they should be able to take the (1) action to form a new swarm.

RM would be appreciated

[Drake]

Zee was the one running that tournament. I got 3rd Outcasts and 1st and 2nd were Neverborn. I don't think Arcanists were in the top 10. Zee did well with Ramos at a east coast tournament.

My apologies, named the wrong tournament. But yeah he did really well with them, so there must be some tricks like this that he pulled to help him seal victory against some of the extremely tricky crews out there...

[CRC]

I asked this exact question: Steampunk Arachnids reforming with a friend.

It works.

[Drake]

Great, thanks for the link CRC, I did look but didnt see that thread.

Good news indeed! Ramos can actually be somewhat competitive! Yay

[Stonedog-7]

Damn... i was firmly in the no camp on this... that makes Steampunk Arachnids even better than i thought and me even happier that i have a Ramos crew on it's way

[Dracomax]

hmmm. Given that on splitting, all arachnids are slow, but have full AP aside from that, and that on recombining, the average of the remaining ap is used(leaving 1 general AP), does the new Swarm get melee master this turn?

[Fading Memory]

hmmm. Given that on splitting, all arachnids are slow, but have full AP aside from that, and that on recombining, the average of the remaining ap is used(leaving 1 general AP), does the new Swarm get melee master this turn?

Yes, Melee Master would come in affect as soon as it activates. There is no rule that says summoned models cannot use action point modifiers when they are summoned. They are affected by Slow when summoned and Slow is an Action Point modifier.

[Dracomax]

sweet. So I can charge, melee master, heal, then dissasemble. enemy gets one activation, then use spider 4 to reform, heal, triple melee attack, without leaving them easy potshots(except for the one who got left out, who could probably either latch on, explode, or just hide)

[Drake]

This is where Brass Arachnid is mint...as your now re-assembled swarm can then be re-activated for an additional 4 attacks..13 attacks in a single turn from what was a single model at the start of the turn!

[Kutuzov]

Interesting!! I got Ramos and will try this, I still got to assemble the little tricky spiders but welll...

So with 3 spiders, kill heal reassemble and boom

with 4 even easier...

And I do like more the Brass totem the reactivate ability is HUGE.

[tadaka]

Expanding on this. I think this would be legal but intrested in what others thinks.

Swarm has reactivate. Takes 3 attacks and splits.

3 spiders activate with slow. 2 reactivate.

Kill one that has all ready used reactivate and is made in to

new spider.

New spider forms swarm.

Because one spider had reactivate it carrys over to swarm who can make 2 melee master attacks and then reactivate again.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Expanding on this. I think this would be legal but intrested in what others thinks.

Swarm has reactivate. Takes 3 attacks and splits.

3 spiders activate with slow. 2 reactivate.

Kill one that has all ready used reactivate and is made in to

new spider.

New spider forms swarm.

Because one spider had reactivate it carrys over to swarm who can make 2 melee master attacks and then reactivate again.

Just to clarify you got some things wrong. Scatter summons three little guys. All have slow and all have reactivate. You can activate all 3. Reactivate two. Kill one who reactivated. Summon new one and swarm together if just one has reactivate on it, the swarm will have it.

That comes out to I think 8 spider activations from that trick. It helps work wonders. Best part is the little guys have great def.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[tadaka]

Hum this breakdown could do some realy cool stuff if you broke down one reactivating swarm and used a few other smaller spiders to make multiple swarms with reactivate.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

That is a lot of spiders required. If could be done great, I think setup is unlikely.

[magicpockets]

IIRC effects don't carry over to the new spiders/swarm as its sacrificed and Summoned, not "replaced" with a new mOdel(s). You can give it reactivate via alyce though and dodge the drop to one wound by scattering the swarm with its last AP

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

IIRC effects don't carry over to the new spiders/swarm as its sacrificed and Summoned, not "replaced" with a new mOdel(s). You can give it reactivate via alyce though and dodge the drop to one wound by scattering the swarm with its last AP

Yes it does read the cards it is explicit. General terms you are correct but both abilities make the exception.