Some advice regarding your Control Hand

[Jonas Albrecht]

Players with a bad hand tend to look at that hand for a very long time.

When you decide not to look at your hand when you choose not to Cheat Fate, it tells me you likely have a $$$$$$$$ty hand.

Rearranging your hand is going to tell me exactly when you're out of good Cheating cards.

Those are the big ones.

[edonil]

I'm guilty of two. Hadn't even thought of how much that broadcasts...heh. Maybe I should learn to play poker...although it doesn't help that I know my own tell, so I'm sure it's not that complicated for other people to pick up

[Dr.Feelgood]

:+fateNow see, if I am waiting for the right opportunity the highest cards i draw will stay in my hand and i will set it down until i need them.

[Jonas Albrecht]

:+fateNow see, if I am waiting for the right opportunity the highest cards i draw will stay in my hand and i will set it down until i need them.

Yes, my example really only works when there's an actual choice to be made regarding whether or not to cheat.

[ispep]

What if someone is always shuffling their hand, good or bad? Especially in the most obnoxious way possible?

[Jonas Albrecht]

What if someone is always shuffling their hand, good or bad? Especially in the most obnoxious way possible?

Likely one of two things.

A) They're trying to throw you off.

They feel like they have something to hide.

[ukrocky]

Ermmmm. I do all 3 of those with a good hand

[Jonas Albrecht]

Ermmmm. I do all 3 of those with a good hand

Everyone thinks they're the exception to common tells.

Case in point, the third one involves having a good hand.

[AdrianMills]

I have a tendancy to put my hand into suits then high to low with in that suit.

[Soundwave]

I, too, tend to sort my hand. I know it's a nasty habit, but on the other hand we don't really play that kind of ultra-serious games, so I doubt it really matters.

[magicpockets]

One of the first things I tell new players is to avoid the natural reaction to sort your hand low to high / left to right - just keep them as they are dealt to you, don't sort them at all.

[Justin]

I play with my hand face up, so my opponent knows how he is going to lose.

[Dumb Luck]

I play with my hand face up, so my opponent knows how he is going to lose.

Ha! I almost choked on my cereal from laughter.

[mythicFOX]

It makes a major difference knowing your opponent is out of good cards. The number of players that tell you or give you tell is quite phenomenal.

Another thing to look at is what a player discards before drawing; discarding moderate cards normally means they're fishing for a suit. Discarding the Black Joker can mean they're planning to make a big move this turn.

On that note look out for a players who have cards left in hand but don't cheat when they would normally want to (indicating a poor hand) but then keep hold of one card when they discard, normally indicating it's a black joker.

[magicpockets]

It makes a major difference knowing your opponent is out of good cards. The number of players that tell you or give you tell is quite phenomenal.

Another thing to look at is what a player discards before drawing; discarding moderate cards normally means they're fishing for a suit. Discarding the Black Joker can mean they're planning to make a big move this turn.

On that note look out for a players who have cards left in hand but don't cheat when they would normally want to (indicating a poor hand) but then keep hold of one card when they discard, normally indicating it's a black joker.

*notes this down ready for Leeds*

[Jonas Albrecht]

normally indicating it's a black joker.

Or they have the Red Joker, and save it for fear of needing it later.

[Mentat_Canis]

I agree that I do have some big tells on really good and really bad hands on the ones in the middle I do a much better job about is it a bunch of 9/10 or is a bunch of 6/7.

I also think it can be a very good strategy to show your opponent if you have have black joker in your hand because it can make them waste cards early in a turn because they know if they are hit they are hit. Not always a good idea but vs the right people its devastating.

[Alviaran]

Likely one of two things.

A) They're trying to throw you off.

They feel like they have something to hide.

It's a common tick among competitive Magic players. It hides the layout of your hand and shows your opponent you are always looking over your hand as well. Even when you have absolutely nothing worth playing, it's good because it makes them think you are looking over your options. When you DO have something, it lets you look over your options.

The worst part is that after doing that for years, someone hands you cards and you start shuffling them through your hand without noticing. (Customer hands me a credit card and gift cards, I start doing this)

So yes, throwing you off. People do it though BECAUSE it is good. People don't do it in professional poker because you have TWO cards to keep track of (much easier than a hand full of cards) which have very little information associated with them and you don't have to constantly look at your hand to see what you have expended and not. Then again, this is a community which regularly sees people wearing sunglasses and hats indoors to minimize tells so I think I'm going to put them in a different category.

[ProdigalPunk]

For the most part Malifuax is a game that needs to be played offensively. I think if you start making predictions about what people have in their hands and playing to that, you are going to lay off the offense a little too much. All in all I think it is much better to make them use their hand in a way that is beneficial to you then worry what is in it. If they have a god hand you are screwed anyhow, knowing will not help, and if they have a crappy hand, not taking it to them because you are trying to figure out what they have is going to play to their advantage.

You should also be able to figure out what they are doing but what they play. In some regards all armies play the same way. If I keep some cards at the start of the draw, those are good cards for one reason or another, most likely high cards, but occasionally suited cards. People should always be fishing for suits. You can tell what a player needs by the model cards more then what he drops from his hand.

If you want to focus on my hand by all means, I will focus on the game. Knowing your opponents hand will give you a little bit of an advantage, but I still feel I could win hand revealed.

[nilus]

I play with my hand face up, so my opponent knows how he is going to lose.

So you are playing Avatar Perdita

[nilus]

Or they have the Red Joker, and save it for fear of needing it later.

I don't know if its fear. Generally I find people hold the Red joker for a damage flip.

I rearrange my cards and when I catch myself doing it I will intentionally do it again to throw my opponent off(if they are looking).

I also hoot and holler and do a dance when I get a good hand, but I don't think that is really a tell per say.

[Chanst]

Yeah, I do the Magic shuffle thing at the beginning of every turn and usually after I play a card. Force of habit I reckon.

I agree that a lot can be learned by how long and how often a player looks at their hand, which it why I almost always hold mine when I am not moving a model around. I have forgot to even look at my cards before because it was on the table and not in my hand. A couple of times it cost my duels, so I try to force myself not to leave them on the table.

You can usually tell when a person has a big card they are saving for a specific purpose in their hand. That being said, I can't think of a single time where knowing that impacted my decision. Usually my decision to cheat or not only changes when the opponent has a chance to cheat first. After seeing the choice they make, I can make a better decision. Trying to predict if they are going to use the big card in their hand or not before I use my big card is usually a lesson in futility.

[Haystacks]

me, I make false tells, its really fun, just a small smile at at a poor hand, when your opponent has finished something, grin just make him think "why is he grinning?"

Ah, good ol' head games.

[Jonas Albrecht]

but I still feel I could win hand revealed.

Put that to the test.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I don't know if its fear.

I'm talking specifically about Too Good To Use syndrome.