Crooked Grin Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 So I noticed some people discussing Malifaux on the Infinity forum and I wondered what your thoughts are on this discussion? You can find it here: http://www.infinitythegame.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6079 The user by the name of Magno brought up some points that as far as I know are incorrect. Excuse me if I'm wrong as I'm still in the process of painting my crews and haven't played a game of Malifaux yet but I always read that even though your master is killed it's still possible to win a game. He also states that you should not play Malifaux competitively yet that's exactly what is happening at Gencon so how bad could it be? Anyway any thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I actually have a couple of Infinity players at my LGS and although they don't play Malifaux they seem to know it so well that they can bash it all the time. They don't have a clue what they're talking about. I despise the people that attack a game without understanding the game. From so many people's comments, they truly have no idea - and what they're wrong about is game breaking - it would totally change the game. Master kill= game over? Pick-up games are useless? I quit Hordes because Malifaux is so much better. I play pick-ups every chance I get. I played Uncharted Seas when it came out so when people say Malifaux is all about Errata, I really go crazy. There weren't any actual "changes" - the game system stayed the same, the errata was just language to stop rules lawyering. Anyone familiar with Uncharted Seas will know what Errata really means. I could go on....if I cared enough about Infinity - which I actually spoke with the players about at length and watched a game before I dismissed it - I would create an account and post this on that thread. But I don't...anyone may feel free to post this over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keltheos Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Sadly, Mango is pretty off base on many of his assumptions. But everyone's entitled to their opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterdita Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 ...from what I've heard infinity isn't exaclty the most sound game itself. I like the models, but never tried the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked Grin Posted July 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 @Keltheos: I thought so but his self-assuredness irritated me quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Yeah I had heard the Infinity rules were impossible to understand till some fans rewrote them all. Edited July 23, 2011 by Ratty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Everyone of course is welcome to their opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yeah I had head the Infinity rules were impossible to understand till some fans rewrote them all. this is true... I had both books and found it impossible to understand it... yea they can have there opinions, but it to annoys me when someone bashes game they no very little if nothing about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I've spent plenty of time on the Infinity forum. Magno is a highly visible, well respected member of the community. When he talks, people listen. It's a shame he's so wide of the mark on this one ... Also keep in mind that Infinity is the anti-thesis of Malifaux. Highly unforgivable, rigid and hyper-realistic; almost like a war sim in tabletop format, or as close as you can get. I'm not surprised that hardcore Infinity players have problems with Malifaux. It's not just apples and oranges. It's apples and circus elephants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked Grin Posted July 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Everyone of course is welcome to their opinion! And thankfully there are a couple of posters on that forum that do in fact like and play Malifaux. It may be a bit childish but I also hate it when people bash a game that I really like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookers Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yeah I had head the Infinity rules were impossible to understand till some fans rewrote them all. Man the Wiki for that game helped so much. It was pretty difficult to play before it. The main issue was that the rules were not translated well. I do enjoy both games, but I find it funny that they mention Malifaux can not be played competitively. I feel like playing Infinity competitively would be a nightmare. I imagine every shot and positioning being argued over and requiring a TO to sit there and watch every single match. In a friendly game "do I have cover?" "Umm... sure why not" but in a competitive game "Well, I dunno... lets get down and see, do you have a head size portion being covered? I don't think so that looks more like a hand sized portion, and it doesn't really look like you are completely touching the terrain, and I'm shooting at you from this angle so..." etc. That guy has a lot of specific information which is strange considering if you even only watch one game of Malifaux you know that losing your master does not mean you have lost the game at all. I would echo everyone's thoughts about people being entitled to their opinions, except he is presenting things as facts which are simply untrue. Oh well, such is the internet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Bashing is one thing, spreading misinformation with confident authority is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmike Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 wow, just wow. I was torn between rage and uncontrolled laughter. On one hand it annoys me when someone starts bashing a game that they obviously by their rundown knows nothing about it. But then i realized this guy is off his nutter. Seriously its like he half watched a game one day and made up the rest of the rules in his mind like a freaking fan fic.(not dissing fan fic). To the Wyrd employees, I respect your neutral and very simple responses to this insane rambling. I feel most for the people who were curious about the game who are now put off by his house rules of the game. Yes its easy to explain to people at my LGS things about malifaux using WMH as a reference, but i love the game because it feels So different. Well my rant is done but if you guys are interested in infinity i saw part of the game the other day and could give your my fan fic version of the rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomyte Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Other then not knowing the mechanics of the game at all and oversimplifying comparisons. he seems like a nice enough guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Other then not knowing the mechanics of the game at all and oversimplifying comparisons. he seems like a nice enough guy. He is, actually. And he's a walking, typing encyclopedia of the Infinity ruleset. ... But nothing undermines credibility quite like presenting opinions as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I play infinity as well as malifaux. To be honest it has taken me 2 years to understand a portion of infinity while with malifaux I picked up the cards looked over them and read the rules once and knew pretty much the gist of the game. And from what mango said that malifaux can't be played competitively come play at my lgs, Toledo has taken almost every event in almost every con in almost all miniatures games. Toledo has a reputation for being brutal when it comes to miniature gaming. So malifaux can be played in a competitive nature, and like hookers said if you playewd Infinity competitively there would have to be a judge at every table or fist could be thrown. Also ya I was raised in the school of hard knocks when it comes to miniature gaming but it is not to say that I only play malifaux competitively, cause I don't. I play to just play, if I played only to win, it would become frustrating, especially when you loose. I have so many stories from 40k when a toledoan lost in 40k and would toss his whole army across the store. 40k is the biggest competitive game at my lgs, warmahordes a very close second. That is why I enjoy malifaux, cause I can play and not have to worry about having a hammerhead tank chucked at my face, or an all metal warjack protruding from my chest. "Honestly who throws a warp wolf." Plus with malifaux you don't have to check the Rulebook every move you make. I think infinity is a good game, there is just way to many different rules. Malifaux is my game of choice. And always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I agree with some of the points the chap makes. Internet chatter is hardly real life gaming though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I agree with some of the points the chap makes. Throw enough sh-t at a wall, some of it's bound to stick. : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 What I found funny in that thread was someone mentioned Avatars and how Malifaux is going down the same path as Warmachine. Not sure how many times it has to be said but Avatars are not epics. The way they are used is completely different. They are not just better version of exciting masters. Other then that its was an interesting read. I don't agree with the Warmachine comparisons so much and I believe Malifaux can be played competitively as it has been done since its initial release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 That guy has a lot of specific information which is strange considering if you even only watch one game of Malifaux you know that losing your master does not mean you have lost the game at all. In part because he knows me personally, and in another part because he's gone out of his way to talk to other Wyrd higher ups at Gencon. What's disturbing, though, is that anything I said about how the development process works got twisted so erroneously into what he's touting as truth- yet I, nor anyone I'd ever imagine at Wyrd, would have ever said anything at all works the way he's saying it does. Having numerous friends that have been playtesters for WM, Hero Clix and Mageknight, now HellDorado and many I know working on various video game projects - our playtest format is pretty common - other than we're more vocal with one another and the Dev Team steps in and talks, too.... Since day one he's complained that the first set of rules were "rushed without playtesting." To which I responded, "It took over two years to develop with a large group of enthusiastic playtesters. The game is more innovative than he'd admit. It's not a recursion of Warmachine. EricJ and Nathan don't even play that game system. The Dev Team members each do, but we play every damned game I can think of, including Infinity (I don't care for it in about equal measure to Magno's clear disdain for Mali). I'd most liken Malifaux to Helldorado which seems more accidental since I don't believe many of us played prior to Malifaux. Whatever. The sense of "it's rushed" I think originates in the innovative and novel system: two thousand people will discover all sorts of problems in several days that forty cannot find in six months. As Nathan said, everyone's got an opinion. We could let the organized play tables at Gencon speak for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarcatsPride Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Comment Removed. Edited December 20, 2011 by HoarcatsPride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: competitive play Everyone's got an opinion. It's all good. Here, I agree that Mali can be played in that venue but also agree that it shouldn't. Why? It's up to the player! I LOVE getting away from a prior gaming system that seemed all too focused on organized competitive play. Every Tuesday night seemed like a "practice my list for the next event" night. I like Mali to be fun, laid back, story driven stuff. But I enjoy the tournaments, too. The system's innovative enough to support both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Your tournaments are awesome Bowen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yeah I had heard the Infinity rules were impossible to understand till some fans rewrote them all. They weren't all that bad IMO (at least my group picked up on them no problem) but the new rulebook is clearer and better worded. I do enjoy both games, but I find it funny that they mention Malifaux can not be played competitively. I feel like playing Infinity competitively would be a nightmare. I imagine every shot and positioning being argued over and requiring a TO to sit there and watch every single match. In a friendly game "do I have cover?" "Umm... sure why not" but in a competitive game "Well, I dunno... lets get down and see, do you have a head size portion being covered? I don't think so that looks more like a hand sized portion, and it doesn't really look like you are completely touching the terrain, and I'm shooting at you from this angle so..." etc. Both can be played competitively but I agree that I'd rather hold Malifaux tournies than Infinity ones. I do feel that Infinity is easier to pick in that ten games and you have a pretty good handle of how things go. In Malifaux you need to play against each Master a couple of times to really get the hang of things. You might win against a Master you haven't faced before but only if you familiarize yourself thoroughly with his/her rules and even then you are a very clear underdog. This problem/feature doesn't exist in Infinity IME. But yeah, the bottom line is that they are extremely, extremely different games and though there certainly are people who enjoy both very much (like me!), I can see them drawing different sorts of gamers. Doesn't excuse bad mouthing Malifaux for no reason, naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Anyway, my Amiga is clearly better than your Atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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