Hansel Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 I've got a couple questions here, and I'm curious what you all think. 1. Do you think Wyrd will ever go to plastic/resin? 2. If they did, what would you think about it? Would you be happy or sad? Mine: 1. If they keep growing like they are, I think they will. I've heard that the development costs for plastic molds are really high, but the production costs (the actual cost of plastic vs. the cost of metal) are relatively low. I'm basing this opinion on what other large minis lines have done in the past: they start with metal, and as they grow, they introduce plastics. 2. I'd love it if they went plastic. While I like the weight and feel of metal models, plastics are easier to work with. It would take me a lot less time to clean and assemble a model, that's for sure. I also think we'd see a lot more conversions of Wyrd models if plastic happened. The cost issue (would plastics cost more or less?) is another possible discussion topic here, but I don't have much knowledge on the subject. Ideally I'd like prices to just stay the same if they made the switch. Also, what if Puppet Wars is plastic? Who knows!? And you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostwalker Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 I personally dont think they would ever go to plastics. Even with the advances over the years, there are still limits to plastics abilities. If they were to change, then i could seem them going over to the new stuff that a few companies are using (gw finecast and its ilk) But only one the faults with it are ironed out. But metal figures are a joy. You know your holding one due to the weight, the detail is nice and at the end of the day. If it aint broke dont fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 The new bases have moved to resin...maybe a sign of things to come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannonFodder Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Maybe larger models, but in general I don't think so. Wyrds business scheme is low model counts with impulse buying. In most games a 10% increase will have a significant price hike, but with the way the they are packaged a 1 dollar price hike will not be a huge impact to the buyer. Meanwhile for other games you need such a large quantity of models the price hike is noticeable. Also by having a low cost buy in of only plastic models will give the game a toy feeling. Also I think they keep there cost down by having slower release plans. Its a very slow and steady rate. Other games I think sometime push to have too much come out at once, then lulls. This requires a higher staff, and more overhead. So far the only big releases from Wyrd is at Gencon with the new book. Also if you look around they let lots of other companies use their name, I just downloaded a printable version of terraclips and they use the Malifaux models in the pictures with a note on the bottom. Also if you look on these forums I posted links to a 3rd party company that makes custom tokens for the game. They don't use the name malifaux, but they actually post here. This too me shows a plan to let other leach/promote their game, which also in the end benefits them, and also eliminates the legal costs which have to be made up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad the Mad Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Plastics, resin, why not? I can see them going that way, but not for the time being. If rapid prototyping (so-called 3D printing) gets quicker and more affordable, miniature manufacturers, including Wyrd, might be some early adopters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Plastics, resin, why not? I can see them going that way, but not for the time being. If rapid prototyping (so-called 3D printing) gets quicker and more affordable, miniature manufacturers, including Wyrd, might be some early adopters. Metal is better than plastic, for detail (which Malifaux has a lot of) And metal is stronger than resin, Malifaux models are too slender for resin Metal is the better material for Malifaux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandu Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Malifaux models are sometimes too slender for metal... :sad2: Love the minis but hate the 'fiddly'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huoshini Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 I prefer metal models because I like the weight to them. I hate having an army case and feeling like I'm holding a bag of potato chips in it. I like the heavy metals and hope it never changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Plus with plastics/resins, you don't have to worry about your LCB and Two Teddies fighting a Peacekeeper breaking through a Terraclips setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePandaDirector Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 I think certain models could do with resin/plastic parts if not full resin. I don't own Nekima but I know her wings and possibly other parts would be more modeller friendly if they were made of a lighter material. I personally would love to see some plastic/resin kits for minions, as I think it is the best way round alternative sculpts. It's one of my great pet peeves - and makes Warmachine a big turn-off - having multples of the same model and many Wyrd minis (Guild Guard, Showgirls, Belles) are rather too hard to convert. Multi part kits that weren't so fiddly would give variety and be more accessible to people who just give up on keeping their Peacekeeper in one piece. Keep characters metal, you only need one of each and their special, but minions and particularly big models should really open themselves to being more customisable and user friendly. Oh and think how awesome it'd be if Wyrd sold a Malifaux roleplay adventure game with a multi-part plastic kit to create your very own Malifaux explorer, at least two (male/female) for each faction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravager Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 As many times as my minis get dropped, I sure hope they don't go to resin. I already have Lilitu, Lelu, Candy, and Sword Vik waiting for re-glues. /I hear resin explodes when dropped. //and all the pieces shoot for your eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePandaDirector Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Resin can take just about all forms. I believe Forge Worlds resin is the brittle type that people are afraid of. I've never had any trouble with it but only need to see the look in my friend's eyes every time I mention that time someone else knocked over his Chaos Warhound Titan. Warmachine's hard resin is absolutely fine, and really solid. GW finecast is supposed to be quite bendy and really resistant to any breakage, but currently their quality control is a mess so I don't know if it has a higher miscast ratio than others. If Wyrd went to resin they'd likely be no reason to rebuy any models, except maybe the likes of Nekima. I don't see why the majority of their characters need to be resin but minions and larger models could really benefit from the right formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Models Like Nekima would be great as a plastic, as the lower weight makes more dynamic poses possible. Honestly I don't have too much of a problem If Wyrd wanted to stay fully metal, I just wish their alloy was a bit stronger. Thin or long things like Bete's Daggers, the needle on the tray holding nurse, or Sybelles riding crop break so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) The only reason I imagine Wyrd would do plastic is if they do something requiring minis that need a very high level of customisation, or they introduce a zombie-related game/expansion and use it as an excuse to release a set of plastic Malifaux Zombies. For the style of game Malifaux (and I asusme - puppet wars) is, plastic kits don't seem to be needed. Resin is a possibility I suppose. Bases are a logical choice for them and it could be useful for especially chunky models. I wouldn't mind either way, really. Edited June 13, 2011 by Rathnard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowopal Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it. But, resin is coming. Snowstorm is part resin. I'll be curious to what kind of resin. Plastics is not the way to go. The molding process is more expensive to start and with the price of petroleum going the way it is, plastics will not be cheap for long. Plus as stated above, the detail is far inferior to resin and metal. Metal is still tops for detail. I hope metal stays at Wyrd for most of the minis. I have a number of resin pieces from various companies. And have broken most of them. Plus a few melted in my car on a hot day. Metal is also a stronger pin. Resin and plastic will not help the "fiddly bits". Only a stronger metal blend will help that. Besides, the price of Malifaux is not bad. It's hard to find any game system where one can start for under $70 and get pretty much everything they would need for under $300. I know book three is coming out eventually. But, I'm not thinking we'll see THAT many figures released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it. But, resin is coming. Snowstorm is part resin. I'll be curious to what kind of resin. Snow storm is part resin? That's news to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Snow storm is part resin? That's news to me Yes, it's been talked about a bit here on the boards. Plastics, resin, why not? I can see them going that way, but not for the time being. If rapid prototyping (so-called 3D printing) gets quicker and more affordable, miniature manufacturers, including Wyrd, might be some early adopters. It's both faster and less expensive than you might think! I'm looking into it for some classes in college, and was shocked at how much it costs. Warmachine's hard resin is absolutely fine, and really solid. GW finecast is supposed to be quite bendy and really resistant to any breakage, but currently their quality control is a mess so I don't know if it has a higher miscast ratio than others. Most of the modellers that I know that have used PP's resin/plastic hybrid hate it. One guy referred to it as the worst of both, with none of the advantages of either. We're also hearing of people's finecast models getting soft in the heat, and bending/breaking. I'm curious what kind they use. Malifaux Zombies. For the style of game Malifaux (and I asusme - puppet wars) is, plastic kits don't seem to be needed. Resin is a possibility I suppose. Bases are a logical choice for them and it could be useful for especially chunky models. I wouldn't mind either way, really. I'd love to see a small plastic, or resin kit for Mindless Zombies now. With everything going on I don't expect it really, and with Wyrd's awesome rules for what's tournament legal I don't think it'll be an issue. It would be nice though. What's funny about it is that I'd like to see the bases metal and models resin. That would allow the weight to be on the bottom, and not create a top heavy situation. I'm having to find something heavy enough for my Peacekeeper as it is. Plastics is not the way to go. The molding process is more expensive to start and with the price of petroleum going the way it is, plastics will not be cheap for long. Plus as stated above, the detail is far inferior to resin and metal. Metal is still tops for detail. I hope metal stays at Wyrd for most of the minis. I have a number of resin pieces from various companies. And have broken most of them. Plus a few melted in my car on a hot day. Metal is also a stronger pin. Resin and plastic will not help the "fiddly bits". Only a stronger metal blend will help that. I've found that new resin gives much crisper detail than metal. I'm torn myself about wanting them to stay with metal or move to resin. A lot of the newer resins (Steampunk Dorothy included) are amazing. They also don't seem to be very fragile in the way the older resins were. Ten years ago I always shuddered around the stuff, now I'm pretty impressed. Metal is definitely the stronger pin, I certainly agree with that! With both metals and resins you can have undercuts on the models as the rubber or silicon molds are fine with bending to let them out. I'd imagine it wears the molds a bit faster though. I think most (if not all) of the resins on the market degrade their molds. I've heard of people getting ten pours before they have to have a new one. Sometimes it's gone to twenty, either way it gets pretty cost intensive. I keep looking for a resin that doesn't have that problem, and I have a suspicion that there is one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Every account of metal vs. plastic points to plastics having much higher set-up costs for much lower per-unit production costs. That means you need a pretty hefty bulk to make plastics worthwhile. The nature of Malifaux means this won't happen. You need less models overall for Malifaux than come in a single box of Warhammer or 40K. Same with Warmachine. They're certainly larger games, but they also reach that bulk count by the game itself needing more models. I have a very hard time seeing that math work for Malifaux. Resin, on the other hand, is already coming, although I'd assume it will be restricted to larger models like Snowstorm and the Riders. I'm curious to see exactly which style of resin it ends up being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huoshini Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 In al honesty, I am all for whatever material they use as long as: A. The quality doesn't go the way of the dodo. B. It keeps the retail price relativly low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 As many times as my minis get dropped, I sure hope they don't go to resin. I already have Lilitu, Lelu, Candy, and Sword Vik waiting for re-glues. /I hear resin explodes when dropped. //and all the pieces shoot for your eyes ROFL! Yeah, that could be terrifying. As light and strong as some resins are I think it might not be an issue as often as one would worry. The costs on those models is pretty rough though. I wouldn't want to spend the $25 a model for my Malifaux stuff. The problem is that when resin does break it's catastrophic which means it's usually sheared along a fragile axis or shatters. Whereas the nature of metal means it will usually bend a bit before it breaks, often allowing it to be salvageable, with work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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