nilus Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Someone in another thread asked for this. So here is the list of changes I noticed in the new Rules Manual. Note these are actual new rules or changes and will not cover errata items. 1) The Shadow rule with elevated flat terrain. Basically its a rule that says there is a blind spot under flat elevated terrain equal to its height. 2) No more rules of equivalency 3) A score limit in games. You can score no more then 8 VP in a scrap, 10 in a brawl 4) All Schemes are back to only granting 1 or 2 VP(no more 3 VP schemes) 5) Slaughter clarification that fixes the point awards for models like Combined Cophees 6) Counters have been split into Counters, Markers and Tokens now. Counters are now just things that are generally carried(like corpse or blood counters). Markers are items on the board and tokens are generally for effects(IE you get poison counters now, not poison tokens) 7) Lots of diagrams and examples 8) A detailed index 9) Models Fall back immediately. 10) Unless noted in the ability, models may not be the target of there own attack. 11) Soulless models no longer drop corpse counters 12) Hoffman's scheme is different. Some other schemes have limitations in place on what other schemes they can take with it Others who have the book please include anything I might have missed. Edited March 1, 2011 by nilus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katcher Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 1) We had a little argue about this in tournament. When i´m on the hill, model si down-across the hill and I can se about 50 % (waist up) of model, can I shoot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 In this Case there would be a deadzone equal to the height of the Hill, as you can not use true line of sight in Malifaux... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 What does the rule say? Nilus said 'flat' terrain. Hills aren't exactly flat, so if it really does say that, then I don't think they'd have a shadow.. *just guessing here as I don't have the manual and probably won't for another week or so ¬_¬* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 In this Case there would be a deadzone equal to the height of the Hill, as you can not use true line of sight in Malifaux... Well....probably not "Hill" as that implies sloping which is different. "Flat" elevations are more for the flat vertical surfaces of a wall like on the side of a building with a different model on the roof or of a cliff face with a model on the flat bluff. But I think you guys get that. Just specifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 What's this I heard of the new rules allowing taking Red Joker even when doing a negative flip? Sounds horrible (imagine Gremlins flipping on negative and getting more likely to get the devastating Red Joker damage the more negative the flip gets)... Random crazy damage for no reason that I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) What's this I heard of the new rules allowing taking Red Joker even when doing a negative flip? Sounds horrible (imagine Gremlins flipping on negative and getting more likely to get the devastating Red Joker damage the more negative the flip gets)... Random crazy damage for no reason that I can see. That's been in the rules for a while under the old erratas. Managed to get a Red Joker on a :-fate:-fate flip last week.. 8Wds on Bad Juju from a pistol, oh how I laughed. Edited February 27, 2011 by Ratty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Random crazy damage for no reason that I can see. And thus a new Gremlin slogan is coined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Huh, so does Shrug Off extend to tokens now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 my guess is it will apply to tokens but not counters now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 What's this I heard of the new rules allowing taking Red Joker even when doing a negative flip? Sounds horrible (imagine Gremlins flipping on negative and getting more likely to get the devastating Red Joker damage the more negative the flip gets)... Random crazy damage for no reason that I can see. That has been the case for sometime now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Huh, so does Shrug Off extend to tokens now? Actually the Shrug-off on the V2 cards mentions counters and effects(which is what the tokens would be). I would imagine that the next go around of the cards might just forgo the word counter entirely from Shrug-off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 That has been the case for sometime now. OK, can someone tell me how that is a good idea? I thought that double-sixes autokilling in Confrontation was bad but this can be even worse in some cases (not to mention that it rewards hitting badly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 OK, can someone tell me how that is a good idea? I thought that double-sixes autokilling in Confrontation was bad but this can be even worse in some cases (not to mention that it rewards hitting badly). It's something that *might* happen once per turn. Its hardly a nuisance, and its not a tactic that can be relied on. On paper its easy to exaggerate, but in reality, it occurs about once in one game out of four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 OK, can someone tell me how that is a good idea? I thought that double-sixes autokilling in Confrontation was bad but this can be even worse in some cases (not to mention that it rewards hitting badly). The black joker overrules EVERYTHING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_God Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Let's keep this thread to new rules/changes, and discussions of things that didn't change should go to other threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WUWU Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I don't have the book yet, but a couple things have popped up on the board recently that aren't in your list. It looks like Soulless models are now considered non-living, and models failing a morale duel outside their activation fall back immediately, rather than their next activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keltheos Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) v2 Shrug Off was printed before the Manual was completed. We'll be talking, but for now read Shrug Off, Dispel Magic, and Spellbreaker as affecting Tokens and not Counters. @Math: this is an ongoing argument folks have. Ultimately it comes down to this...the Red Joker isn't 'just a wild 14 card'. It's in almost every way intended to be the opposite of the Black Joker. So although the Black Joker trumps all the Red Joker wouldn't be very Jokery if it was negated by any negative flip out there now would it? As it stands now, both Jokers trump everything else (except Black in the case of Red). There's a tactic out there which folks claim breaks the game to force a :-fate:-fate flip as often as possible in the hopes of getting the Red Joker. Can it work? Sure once per trip through the deck. Without that Joker though, you're throwing away potentially useful cards in a 1:54 flip hope. We'll assume for sake of argument that you're holding the Black Joker so it doesn't factor into those big flips. Edited February 27, 2011 by Keltheos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 It's something that *might* happen once per turn. Its hardly a nuisance, and its not a tactic that can be relied on. On paper its easy to exaggerate, but in reality, it occurs about once in one game out of four. Or three times in my last game. But sometimes luck just happens... In my first game, the black joker decided to show up two turns in a row (on +flip damages), more or less Cuddling Rasputina's output. So I figure I'm close to even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNybbles Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 5) Slaughter clarification that fixes the point awards for models like Combined Cophees I think people will still hate the Coryphee, though does it award points to models like the Mannequins and Ikiryo now as well? I think the four types of models without a Soulstone cost are Masters, and those with a Soulstone Cost of -, Placed, or Summoned. Masters always had a rule to award their deaths by 6 or 10 Soulstones, but the others were worth 0 in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookers Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 There's a tactic out there which folks claim breaks the game to force a :-fate:-fate flip as often as possible in the hopes of getting the Red Joker. Can it work? Sure once per trip through the deck. Without that Joker though, you're throwing away potentially useful cards in a 1:54 flip hope. We'll assume for sake of argument that you're holding the Black Joker so it doesn't factor into those big flips. haha that sounds like a tactic that plans on doing a lot of weak damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 And thus a new Gremlin slogan is coined Sigged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Without that Joker though, you're throwing away potentially useful cards in a 1:54 flip hope. Technically, it always starts at a 1:47 chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopelessHeretic Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Wow soulless models being non-living is huge change for levi players. I can't get my waif from levi's corpse anymore. Hoffman's unique scheme is different and several of the schemes have limitations on them. for examle my little friend can't b taken if your strategy is contain power or if you have the assassinate scheme. Being insignificant is less of a big deal for example you can carry the treasure with an insignificant model but it doesn't count as carrying it for the extra vp. My one disappointment is that kidnap has not changed, but you cna't win them all. -Heretic Edited February 28, 2011 by HopelessHeretic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gru6y Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 models failing a morale duel outside their activation fall back immediately, rather than their next activation. Wow, this is actually pretty big and a very good call, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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