Gwisin and enslaved spirits

[Korrok]

Kirai and the rest of the ressers just got new toys. Gwisin are absolutely bonkers for 6 stones 😳

[Thatguy]

They both look really great to me. 

Gwisin are pretty stellar. Any attack that doesn't do three damage results in your model losing more health than there's. 

Enslaved Spirits are pretty good too. 3ss for a significant model. They're kind of slow by themselves, butt a pair can hustle 14" a turn.  

[bakaryu135]

Gwisin seem to be a bit above the curve in health compared to cost, even more so for incorporeal models that usually are slightly below the curve to make up for their baked in damage reduction.  Vengeance +2 with enough health to reliably take 2-3 hits and a reasonable DEF/WP to back it up honestly makes me feel like these guys are undercosted.  I would still see them as worthwhile picks if they were 7 or even 8 SS and that is usually a pretty damning sign that something is too good for its cost.

Enslaved Spirits will suddenly be a huge deal for some of the strong but slow crews, Jack Daw instantly springs to mind and I would easily want to put in one or two to help nudge his crew around.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I'm not sure how often Kirai1 is summoning Gwisin over Drowned. Incorporeal/Vengeance is a bit of a nonbo (both just encourage opponents to focus attack for big damage). 7 health does change that up a bit, as that is a LOT of health. That's like goryo level health... Two moderate 4 hits don't kill it, which is a massive deal. But ping damage from tacticals or abilities rips them apart.

I'm not certain they're better than OOK ashigaru, but the 7 health certainly makes them a bit more appealing... But Ashigaru have hard to kill and extended reach, which are both huge deals.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Enslaved spirits seem pretty insane for Kirai2... I imagine those will see far more table time, but I could be wrong.

I do suck at evaluating a model without seeing it in action 😜

[Korrok]

59 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Enslaved spirits seem pretty insane for Kirai2... I imagine those will see far more table time, but I could be wrong.

I do suck at evaluating a model without seeing it in action 😜

I agree. Get one up into a scrum and use chain gang to move itself and a friend through some models for a few casual join us tests. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

That seven health on the Gwisin is so wild. I didn't really process it at first, but that is SO much health.

Like they're as much health as a Goryo but for 2 stones less. Vengeance 2 is pretty good (although remember they don't deal it on the killing blow).

These will definitely see a fair bit of play.

[Graf]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

These will definitely see a fair bit of play.

I wonder about that. They look solid in terms of their power level and it's nice to have a versatile anti-schemer. It will happen, but how often will it be necessary to hire them? Adversary is helpful, but also not absolutly lynchpin and surviving is only the first step towards leaving impact in games.

I think that's a great place to be for versatile models though, good design imho.

Personally, I'm still much more excited for Enslaved Spirits.

[Maniacal_cackle]

10 minutes ago, Graf said:

I wonder about that. They look solid in terms of their power level and it's nice to have a versatile anti-schemer. It will happen, but how often will it be necessary to hire them? Adversary is helpful, but also not absolutly lynchpin and surviving is only the first step towards leaving impact in games.

I think that's a great place to be for versatile models though, good design imho.

Personally, I'm still much more excited for Enslaved Spirits.

Yeah, between Kirai2 being able to summon enslaved spirits and being easier to fit into a crew (and Gwisin having competition with Ashigaru), I wouldn't be surprised if spirits see more play.

[Gheist]

That gwisin looks really good, but i don't know if i would play it in Keyword. My Hiring Pool ist already quite full with models i cannot summon, and when i summon i think Drowned or Shikome give more value if i am maxed out on Goryos already

I don't see them as a an antischemer too, because they are too slow and have no other uses when they are in the backfield. Imho, they are pure tanks, if you can establish them as a front line with your goryos and Ikiryo to soak up Hits and give back 2dmg. Although i feel that this is super card intensive. Kirai herself doesn't need them per se because she has got protected already.

---> its another thing with her title Card, there this could be insanely important to protect Kirai+with into mist and a seishin nearby it will be unbelievable hard to take down for 6SS. I think it will be stapled to the Title card build, also because kirai loses protected there and works best if she forces as many duels as possible, so she is not as card dependend as her summoner alter ego.

The Chained Spirit ... i love chain gang, but i think seishin are overall a better hire  for their cost with the healing aura in addition for moving stuff around. I think Spirits will be the go to model for Join us summons because: The Aura. As Maniacle mentioned, you want to focus versus incorporeal and vengeance so guess what you wasted your ap on last round? Now those are revealed i am getting more hyped about Kirais Title.

I think a 3 SS Versatile non insignificant model with incorporeal is also good to just drop that one important scheme marker, although i think ressers are swamped with good models, they can't appreciate it properly

[Giovanni Canzanella]

Question about Gwisin.
Did the +2 Vengeance applies when he Takes the Hit for protecting Kirai?

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Giovanni Canzanella said:

Question about Gwisin.
Did the +2 Vengeance applies when he Takes the Hit for protecting Kirai?

 

It is a controversial subject at the moment, but go check out the thread on the rules forum.

[Adran]

27 minutes ago, Giovanni Canzanella said:

Question about Gwisin.
Did the +2 Vengeance applies when he Takes the Hit for protecting Kirai?

 

My Answer is here (but so are other opinions). 

I thought it was clear, but I'll let you read the arguments and make your own mind up

[Giovanni Canzanella]

Thank you Adran.
Hard to shape an opinion with all of this.
For the sake of  simplicity, I will stick to the FAQ and ruling as the Vengeance doesn't apply on Take The Hit in my future games.

That being said, I'm really curious to understand why is not possible for the guys at Wyrd to let out (weekly, monthly, whatever) some rules clarification, just to make sure that non-english players like me (that doesn't grasp some of the subtlety of the english rule-language) can play the game just as it is intended 😊

[Adran]

5 minutes ago, Giovanni Canzanella said:

That being said, I'm really curious to understand why is not possible for the guys at Wyrd to let out (weekly, monthly, whatever) some rules clarification, just to make sure that non-english players like me (that doesn't grasp some of the subtlety of the english rule-language) can play the game just as it is intended 😊

They do - its called the FAQs and is released roughly annually at the moment. (I imagine its quite a time consuming process to make sure that they don't drastically change the game with a badly thought out FAQ answer. We all saw what happened with the "another" ruling in the first FAQ which got changed in the second. And there is also an issue that if you make the document too large it just gets ignored by most of the player base so they need some care about what they put into it). 

[Giovanni Canzanella]

57 minutes ago, Adran said:

They do - its called the FAQs and is released roughly annually  

That's my problem. It's annually release.
Considering all the rules that would need clarification, I would appreciate a lot to have official answers more often, but you already explained the reason why the FAQ is released annually and not monthly

[Shakyor]

Just wanted to report that by now I have played alot with Gwisins and love them. You cant pick them always, but they have a lot of uses which can feel almost unfair. They are as expected excellent where the Opponent wants to Alpha Strike you. I also like them when I want to play with models aggresively as backup. Especially Reva 1 and Seamus 1+2, but even whenever I pick dead rider.

I really really like putting GST on them, the healing ist great but giving them a sensible bonus action is what makes this really really sweet. The terryfing is a bit of a nonbo, BUT when they cost 8SS is actually not so bad giving the opponent basically no incentive to play them.

Actually playing them as pairs with another take the hit model can also be really really great against the right pool. Two Gwisins with GST and something like Sloth can make for an extraordinarly unkillable crew.

[OracleToronto]

I have found a Gwishin with GST makes for an excellent loadstone carrier. As much defensive tech as you could want me incorporeal means they can be pushed around to wherever the stone needs to go.