santaclaws01 Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Well, I mean they do come with an upgrade for card draw. In fact, I'd argue that one of the biggest factors in crew strength in Neverborn crews is how well they can hold the card draw upgrade (Ancient Pact on a minion). Yeah, outside of Marcus and Zoraida the only reliable card draw the faction has is a max of 2 cards per turn from upgrades. That's not really anything to write home about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extremor Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 You’re missing out on Lucius... darn good carddraw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 So basically... If you are dual faction, you get to have card draw xD Although OP has a point - Nekima's card draw is amongst the best in the faction then 😜 EDIT: That said, I think card draw can be a bit of a crutch/is overemphasised in some cases. Reva is a good example where card draw isn't the answer to her issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, extremor said: You’re missing out on Lucius... darn good carddraw. Forgot about Lucius. Yeah, he has good card draw too, although it can often be more card cycling than card draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said: Neverborn. Card Draw. Pick one. I think what this really means is that if you want to do card draw, you have to do it in your own unique way, because there aren't easy card draw engines that work for all masters, but Marcus, Lucius, Zoraida and certain Nephlim builds can certainly get a large chunk of cards drawn. The risk is putting too much effort into the card draw, and not enough into the use of those cards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 9:48 PM, Kharnage said: I'm sure it's cocky to say it, but it is not that Nekima is competitive, it is simply that I am competitive with Nekima. She's my favorite master to play and I will shamelessly soap box for her because I finally got her as a master and I don't want to watch her get DMH'd by plot, and if Nicodem teaches me anything, it's that hype saves lives. I've been saying Wyrd is balancing Neverborn and Nephilim around you for the last year, and nobody wants to listen, even though you are the only one keeping her even remotely relevant. She's not good unless you are much better than your opponent, in a favorable matchup, and you bring a hyper-optimized list. Also hype is overrated. Lilith was plenty hyped in 2e and now we're still waiting for her to come home and fix this fiasco. On 2/7/2021 at 11:40 PM, ooshawn said: I honestly don't see where bloodwretch and C. hounds would ever be taken I've taken hounds before in very specific situations where I wanted some fast and disposable blood bombs. They do yeoman's work against armor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Nagi21 said: I've taken hounds before in very specific situations where I wanted some fast and disposable blood bombs. They do yeoman's work against armor. That's neat, but just as an aside - shame it doesn't work on Cadmus, the current hot topic 😧 I got excited until I went and read We Are Legion (which can reduce to 0). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maogrim Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 I can't wait for 'Nekima, Enlightened Queen' as a Henchman for Honeypot. Think she'll ditch Lorelei for claws and tentacles then. It will be glorious! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 49 minutes ago, Maogrim said: I can't wait for 'Nekima, Enlightened Queen' as a Henchman for Honeypot. Think she'll ditch Lorelei for claws and tentacles then. It will be glorious! 😁 "Henchman", good joke. If Nekima became the new vessel for Huggie, best believe Lynch is a gonna be a corpse soon thereafter. Besides, I'm pretty sure Titania made Euripides lie to Nekima to get her to fight the nascent Tyrant and his goons rather than try to convince her that Tyrants are the problem. "Fate decrees you will lose to Jakob Lynch" illiciting the response "Fate can go eat shit" from Nekima seems pretty reliable, since she's already tired of the other prophecy that rules her life. But Wyrd writers, seriously, I will fight you if you fridge the God Empress. It'd be such a waste of a cool character. She's basically the Malifaux equivalent of Guts from Berserk; somewhat cunning but will just violence her way out of destiny if she has to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maogrim Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, Kharnage said: "Henchman", good joke. If Nekima became the new vessel for Huggie, best believe Lynch is a gonna be a corpse soon thereafter. Besides, I'm pretty sure Titania made Euripides lie to Nekima to get her to fight the nascent Tyrant and his goons rather than try to convince her that Tyrants are the problem. "Fate decrees you will lose to Jakob Lynch" illiciting the response "Fate can go eat shit" from Nekima seems pretty reliable. Buuuut, Nekima can get Brilliance tokens by Jakob's friendly handshakes, wild nights with Beckoners et cetera, so she's not immune to it the way Jakob is, ergo not fit for being the Darkness' vessel. But I apologize for talking crap about your mistress. I do agree she's a cool character and I really dig her spitefulness. In regards to the prophecy: I don' t know enough about Euripides. Does he lie? And wouldn't Titania want to keep Jakob or rather the Hungering Darkness close, to keep it under control? If not, wouldn't she want the Dreamer dead too then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Maogrim said: ButI apologize for talking crap about your mistress. I do agree she's a cool character and I really dig her spitefulness. You know what, you're all right. We cool. I think Hungering Darkness knows he's on the menu for Titania which is why Jakob is no longer a Neverborn master. Neverborn masters are fighting themselves to begin with now, considering Zoraida, Lilith, and Nytemare were clearly in opposition to Titania and Nekima. I think Titania just doesn't like Tyrants at all, shoot-on-sight kinda deal, so "friends close, enemies closer" might not apply to a group of super beings you've been trying to genocide since ancient times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Kharnage said: But Wyrd writers, seriously, I will fight you if you fridge the God Empress. It'd be such a waste of a cool character. She's basically the Malifaux equivalent of Guts from Berserk; somewhat cunning but will just violence her way out of destiny if she has to. Yea... would be so sad for something to happen to the petulant child of the faction so she could be replaced with someone with more depth than "big sword go bonk". 😒 Her greatsword isn't even a greatsword. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Nagi21 said: Yea... would be so sad for something to happen to the petulant child of the faction so she could be replaced with someone with more depth than "big sword go bonk". 😒 Her greatsword isn't even a greatsword. An interesting fighting style does not a good character make. I've never seen someone plot to overthrow someone who made them powerless, and actually do it for more than the first half of the second act of a movie. Nekima is not Scar. She sucked up to her backstabbing sister, plotted for two editions, her sister messed up by, I dunno, letting her live, and someone who lets their "neither can rule while the other lives" prophecy go on with their "I take everything VERY personally" GIANT MURDER DEMON of a sister deserves to be tossed in a plot device pit. Besides, everything that was written about Lilith in 2e made her out to be a very one dimensional angry arrogant individual anyway while Nekima's first person descriptions of the half bloods was very "my lovely children, schemey scheme scheme" and while I don't have a problem with that, I'm surprised you don't. And besides, on the topic of interesting fighting styles, I happen to like reckless hulking berserker. Justice only recently went from anime swordswoman to actual rage from fridging her boy, and even then, while she deserves her menacing guitar solo when she enters a fight, Nekima doesn't need one to be scary, she just is. Something that big shouldn't move that fast, but she does, and with a massive gutting implement to boot. No master in Malifaux matches that and I seriously don't want to give it up so we can have "Colette with a Greatsword" back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 I too think Nekima should be a berserk murder machine similar to guts. If anything I think they need to figure out a way to demonstrate her prowess and strength even more Had a few more games with her and won them all. 4 and 1 with her at the moment. literally first five games of third edition on top of that, same list every time. I think perhaps tots and hounds need some love, but really that's about it from my point of view. I'm on the side of hoping that when lilith comes back we can actually see her transform into her nephilim form and really go ham on someone. to gain a different style of play that really separates her from the other neverborn would be fantastic. Her old play style was very boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 17 hours ago, Nagi21 said: Her greatsword isn't even a greatsword. Yeah, it's better 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 9 hours ago, santaclaws01 said: Yeah, it's better Hmm... 3/5/6 vs 3/4/5 with + to damage flips (i.e. focus bonus). Not saying you're wrong... but you're wrong. 😁 19 hours ago, Kharnage said: An interesting fighting style does not a good character make. I've never seen someone plot to overthrow someone who made them powerless, and actually do it for more than the first half of the second act of a movie. Nekima is not Scar. She sucked up to her backstabbing sister, plotted for two editions, her sister messed up by, I dunno, letting her live, and someone who lets their "neither can rule while the other lives" prophecy go on with their "I take everything VERY personally" GIANT MURDER DEMON of a sister deserves to be tossed in a plot device pit. Besides, everything that was written about Lilith in 2e made her out to be a very one dimensional angry arrogant individual anyway while Nekima's first person descriptions of the half bloods was very "my lovely children, schemey scheme scheme" and while I don't have a problem with that, I'm surprised you don't. I mean... she's really not a good character though. She's one-dimensional in that either you defer to her, or you get put on her shitlist. She doesn't hide her schemes well, and you can't really sit there and actually tell me you don't expect either her or Titania to get smacked in the face by the other (and spoiler... Titania is a lot scarier) eventually. Lilith at least knew the eventuality and took steps to account for it. Nekima thinks she's going to be something more than a pawn in Titania's game. If you think otherwise, I'd like to point you in the direction of Diamond's body and the fiasco that ensued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 34 minutes ago, Nagi21 said: Hmm... 3/5/6 vs 3/4/5 with + to damage flips (i.e. focus bonus). Not saying you're wrong... but you're wrong. 😁 I agree in a straight comparison a great sword is normally a better weapon. About the only time it isn't is if you expect to charge a lot, and I could see the complaints if nekima had a standard great sword. Blade rush with nekima out performs a great sword. ( and if you compare to someone like justice, nekima will out hurt against higher stats normally ( df6 or better I think if I remember the numbers correctly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Nagi21 said: Hmm... 3/5/6 vs 3/4/5 with + to damage flips (i.e. focus bonus). Not saying you're wrong... but you're wrong. 😁 You only get the positives if you're not charging, which Nekima wants to be doing every time she can, so her actual damage track is 4/6/7 vs 4/5/6, and it's pretty easy to see which of those is better. Hell even her 4/6/7 is better than a 3/4/5 with a positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 33 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said: You only get the positives if you're not charging, which Nekima wants to be doing every time she can, so her actual damage track is 4/6/7 vs 4/5/6, and it's pretty easy to see which of those is better. Hell even her 4/6/7 is better than a 3/4/5 with a positive. That is all based on upgrading Nekima, and her not getting caught in engagement, allowing her to use frenzed charge so whilst I agree, for her the living blade is generally more useful than a great sword would be, in general I would rather have a great sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Nagi21 said: Hmm... 3/5/6 vs 3/4/5 with + to damage flips (i.e. focus bonus). Not saying you're wrong... but you're wrong. 😁 You're claiming that a bonus to damage for not charging would be superior to flat increases in damage on a model with frenzied charge and blade rush basically stapled to her card... Allow me to bathe in the soothing waters of my wrongness. You also seem to be confusing "good character" with "good-at-life character", which aren't the same thing. Nekima is a flawed character. Her tragedy is that she must fight in a world with ancient evils and queens of ultimate power and backstabbing sisters in order to carve out her own destiny, and you're right; she's hopelessly outclassed. But that's why I made the comparison to Guts. She's fighting against all odds and fate itself so her life can go the way she wants it to, and it makes me want to root for her desperately. Lilith could never hope to get me that invested in her life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 I am in firm agreement with kharnage in regard to her sword and inhuman reflexes is mandatory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 57 minutes ago, Adran said: That is all based on upgrading Nekima, and her not getting caught in engagement, allowing her to use frenzed charge so whilst I agree, for her the living blade is generally more useful than a great sword would be, in general I would rather have a great sword. Inhuman reflexes is basically stapled to Nekima's card, only against Von Schtook is that actually an issue. As for getting engaged, she has stat 7 and shove aside to get out. On the other side, situations where the built in positive to damage would be negated, even if you didn't charge with her, are significantly more common. Additionally I'd rather take the roughly equal odds of dealing moderate damage on a single negative(as opposed to weak), which will deal as much as the severe damage hit from the greatsword attack than likely having to cheat in a severe to get that damage on a straight flip. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 On another note, in my limited experience, I typically have 2+ focus on nekima most of the time. it's pretty rare that I can't get a straight flip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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