Pandora post GG1

[Jeffiejay]

Hello all,

I am a brand new player to the game joining a malifaux league and am looking to main Pandora.  In addition to her base crew, I also picked up Teddy, Iggy, and Hinamatsu.  

As I am on a budget, I would like to hold off from getting too many more models.  Though I have my eye on hooded rider from what I've read.  

Can you all give a general overview of how to play each strategy with Pandora, and what her best schemes are?  I found some posts from the older seasons, would love to read through some updated advice for gg season 1.   Thanks in advance!

 

[Alcathous]

It sounds like you've got most the models you need to really make Pandora shine. If you're planning on soloing her for a while, I definitely suggest the Rider. Carver is another ruthless model and a good tarpit if you're looking to expand beyond that, and I wouldn't sleep on Lyssa either because they get you a lot of value for their cost.

47 minutes ago, Jeffiejay said:

Can you all give a general overview of how to play each strategy with Pandora, and what her best schemes are?  I found some posts from the older seasons, would love to read through some updated advice for gg season 1.   Thanks in advance!

I have mostly played Pandora in Recover Evidence this season. I'm a big fan of "Castle Dora" where I force the enemy to me and force them to overextend due to the strategy markers dropping within your bubble. I think that can work in Public Enemies too, but it's less consistent because the enemy can get more benefit from ranged combat.

The other way to go is throw Pandora into the opposing crew as early as possible, follow with Candy, and just start wrecking their day.

With Dora as a main, I recommend trying out both styles. I think you'll find the aggressive style better suits the strategies that want to play on the opponent's half of the board; Ley Lines and Symbols.

Schemes wise, I think she's one of our best at scoring two points off Let Them Bleed (especially if you're hiring 2+ sorrows). Poltergeist's Telekinesis + Iggy's Arson means she has the faction's best scheme marker denial. I like Hidden Martyrs and Vendetta for her as well. Mood Swings does a lot to make Vendetta more viable than other crews.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 hours ago, Alcathous said:

With Dora as a main, I recommend trying out both styles. I think you'll find the aggressive style better suits the strategies that want to play on the opponent's half of the board; Ley Lines and Symbols.

Just note you can score 3 leylines without crossing the centreline.

Symbols is really the only strategy where castling isn't viable.

[Alcathous]

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Just note you can score 3 leylines without crossing the centreline.

That's a fair point; I tend to push forward more in that one to try and disrupt the opponent's lodestone movement, but you're right that it's viable to castle up and make that work.

[SEV]

So is it possible to play Pandora in Symbols (I never tried)? My guess would be to go heavy on the OOK / Versatile. The Rider seem mandatory here, maybe a BBS or a young?

As for scheme, I like all the suggestions above. I Also like Claim Jump and leave your mark. You can buble around the centre and it will be though for you opponent to deny those points.

As a new Pandora player myself I invested in Hooded Rider, Serena Bowman and Hinatmatsu as my versatile models. 

[Adran]

7 minutes ago, SEV said:

So is it possible to play Pandora in Symbols (I never tried)? My guess would be to go heavy on the OOK / Versatile. The Rider seem mandatory here, maybe a BBS or a young?

As for scheme, I like all the suggestions above. I Also like Claim Jump and leave your mark. You can buble around the centre and it will be though for you opponent to deny those points.

As a new Pandora player myself I invested in Hooded Rider, Serena Bowman and Hinatmatsu as my versatile models. 

Its certainly possible to play it. It might be a tougher game for you than with some masters, but its not an automatic loss. 

You may find that you have to change your play style, and possibly the crew to do well.  One possible way to do it and still castle is to try and set up the symbols in a very defensible section of the board, and focus on trying to deny those points to your opponent by making that the area that Pandora controls. You probably also need to try and make sure you have a good way to score some points yourself, even if its just the scheme points. 

[SEV]

6 minutes ago, Adran said:

One possible way to do it and still castle is to try and set up the symbols in a very defensible section of the board, and focus on trying to deny those points to your opponent by making that the area that Pandora controls. You probably also need to try and make sure you have a good way to score some points yourself, even if its just the scheme points. 

I like this. The reason I was drawn to Dora is because I like a control/prison play style. I'll try this for my next game with Dora 🙂

[Ogid]

Good luck with Dora; mind she isn't an easy master to start with. You have good models; keep getting her keyword models and get the rider; that should get you started. From there Serena is a good next stop.

12 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Symbols is really the only strategy where castling isn't viable.

Castling could be viable there under some circunstances; but I'm not sure if Pandora could do it or not (never tried it with her). Placing the 4 symbols forming an square or a diamond you can minimice the area to defend and force the other player to engage your crew to get them.

Pandora would then need a good and reliable runner to get symbols; something dangerous and fast, like a Mature or the rider.

It's probably not the best way to face that strategy for her; but with limited models it might work a shot.

[SEV]

20 hours ago, Ogid said:

It's probably not the best way to face that strategy for her; but with limited models it might work a shot.

So what would you do?

[Ogid]

20 hours ago, SEV said:

So what would you do?

It's hard to answer... too many variables without knowing the schemes, faction, enemy master, kind of map... She isn't the master I'd pick for this strategy, maybe into a pool with both Claim Jump and Leave your mark I could consider her... Anyway, a few posible ways I'd consider tackling it:

• From the Keyword: Candy in (99% of the time), Carver out unless the other crew plays with Focused a lot, Iggy depending on the schemes and enemy crew, Kade + Teddy are a good option for the mobility they have together and the Lures, both Lyssas and Sorrows good options too.
• Rider + Vasilisa +Doll + BBS to get a Mature and the Rider as 2 models good to go on their own and also move forward the other slower models.
• Vasilisa + Effigy (combinable with the above): Double walk and Double Lure something (here I'd probably also use a doll for Adversary); if Vasilisa is in, Hinamatsu is solid too.
• Grootslang + Doppleganger (and maybe also Changelings): Doppleganger may mimic Lair to Lair for a very nice headstart and has don't mind me to get the markers. The grootsang brings also some condition play useful with the crew and may set up some defensive lairs to defend later if needed. Only if the other crew can't just kill both easily.
• Double Masters could be also an option: Dreamer (to pin down jumpers and to either defend with stitcheds or get markers with Insidious). Titania (with a crow can move models defending the markers). Nekima (wild hunt versus the enemy runners; probably combined with the Mature opening). Eurpidies (not as good as Titania for this, but the ability to create Ice pilars could help to defend)
• Models able to stagger (Lyssas, Puppets, Cyclop, Dreamer...) to pin down the enemy crew with Pandora's tentacles.
• Lyssas + something that create Ice Pilars might be good to defend markers; bring it is also interesting to mess with runners or bring models into the bubble. I could even try 1 Cyclops with 2 Lyssas in a game like this one.
• Lures will be important to both bring models into the auras and to make the runner's job harder (so Kade, Hinamatsu, Lyssas, Wrath...)
• Another possible way to defend a marker where Pandora is going to be near (like one in the centerpoint) would be picking Adze, anything that get near will get Distracted+1 and be moved by Misery.

[Nagi21]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:45 AM, Jeffiejay said:

Hello all,

I am a brand new player to the game joining a malifaux league and am looking to main Pandora.  In addition to her base crew, I also picked up Teddy, Iggy, and Hinamatsu.  

As I am on a budget, I would like to hold off from getting too many more models.  Though I have my eye on hooded rider from what I've read.  

Can you all give a general overview of how to play each strategy with Pandora, and what her best schemes are?  I found some posts from the older seasons, would love to read through some updated advice for gg season 1.   Thanks in advance!

 

Woe is a bit of a mixed bag in GG1.  The pools are less spread out than gg0 but Pandora still has a lot of similar issues that she had prior.

The main weakness of the keyword is that the high end models are really good (Dora, Candy, Carver, etc), but the mid to low cost models are extremely fragile (sorrows, aversions, Kade).  The biggest problem this causes is that the traditional "misery ping bubble" doesn't work well because A) misery doesn't stack more than once per activation and 2) the models to make the bubble can be one/two shot fairly effectively vs any kind of range.  She's not unplayable but the crew is best with fewer elite models than bubble focused models (I would call her a semi-bubble crew).

Scheme-wise, she's good in anything that doesn't rely on her going much past the centerline.  Claim jump is probably her best, along with something like research mission, Leave your mark, vendetta, Assassinate, or hidden martyrs (basically all the neverborn classics).  She isn't going to be getting much off stuff like breakthrough or sabotage or the like unless you build specifically for it.

The crew plays well into CLL, but struggles with Symbols since it usually relies on trading a model for a marker.  You should never take it into Public Enemies, since you have very little survival aside from your expensive models, and you'll give up as many if not more points to most crews.  Recover evidence is a bit of a toss up since it relies on you and your enemy coming together at some point.  If you pick her into something like Dashel or Rasputina, you're very unlikely to score anything off the strat and give up points.  Flip side is that if you take her into say Hoffman, you should get most of the points from it.

All in all she plays almost identical to gg0, except the pools are slightly more conducive to center focused play where she doesn't have to go far.  She's still the high cost elite crew she was at the start of 3e (sadly).

[Maniacal_cackle]

17 hours ago, Ogid said:

Carver out unless the other crew plays with Focused a lot

Just a note that if the enemy lacks ruthless for whatever reason, focus becomes the default way to bypass manipulative. I did a matchup against Pandora recently where I took almost no Ruthless, and it was extremely painful trying to focus within 6" of Carver (giving him a 2" reposition to ruin my attack).

[Nightwing]

I started out with Pandora only, because I liked the idea of her playstyle plus the theme of her models. I actually wouldn't recommend to start with her, because she is really hard to learn as a beginner, because her playstyle is a lot about correct positioning (all your Auras require LoS to work), which is very subtle and not that quick to improve in. Furthermore half of the Strategies, half of the Schemes and half of the deployment zones are bad for her, which leads to you having a disadvantage in most games.

But if you want to stick with Pandora, here a my two cents:

- Get Serna Bowman for heal, condition removal and the occasionally "Hole in the World" game changer; she also works well with Teddy and Carver, because she can melee through them with Blast trigger.

- Use Baby as a mobility peace and late game Assassin. Move, call Teddy to you and then Lure another model.

- Carver is really difficult to use IMO, because he has to get close, cannot flurry, is expensive and deceptively fragile. I would recommend to take either Hinamazu or Hooded Rider instead, until you have more experience with the crew.

- Try not to have more than 2 Manipulative Models in the crew. It really limits your activation order. 

- Candy is a must-have. Works well with Hooded Rider as her Big Daddy.

- Poltergeist is great, but hide him most of the time and treat him like a Civilian.

[Ogid]

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Just a note that if the enemy lacks ruthless for whatever reason, focus becomes the default way to bypass manipulative. I did a matchup against Pandora recently where I took almost no Ruthless, and it was extremely painful trying to focus within 6" of Carver (giving him a 2" reposition to ruin my attack).

That's true; but in a game like this one the crew would need to do some sacrifices to be able to reach and defend the symbols... Pandora can also control Focused in key enemy models and as the other player will also need to build to reach the objetives in time, I wouldn't expect as much agression as in other kind of pools, so also Carver controlling Focused could be overkill and actually hurt my ability to score.

57 minutes ago, Nightwing said:

- Carver is really difficult to use IMO, because he has to get close, cannot flurry, is expensive and deceptively fragile. I would recommend to take either Hinamazu or Hooded Rider instead, until you have more experience with the crew.

Reading this I think you might have the same issues I had with him when I started playing. I found him underperforming when compared with  Teddy, Hinamatsu or The hooded rider because I tried to use him mainly as a damage dealer and I was always trying to throw him into enemy models. But then I realiced his real power is the control he brings and there was when I started to like the model.

Just walking and then using Breath of Fire and Glimpse of Insanity on 2 important models to remove the Focused (even if both attack misses) is where he shines; plus enemies can only attack him once with Focused because he will remove any remaining one (but it's true he is a bit frail so SS to keep him alive are important). His up in flames trigger is also very good to scheme denial. Other players say his Draw Essence is good, but I personally haven't used it much, maybe because I don't tend to play versus hordes.

He has some damage potential, but for 10SS and with all his limitations (no damage reduction, no flurry, average movement, bad damage track without triggers...), he is not a good pick just for the damage.

[Nightwing]

22 hours ago, Ogid said:

Reading this I think you might have the same issues I had with him when I started playing. I found him underperforming when compared with  Teddy, Hinamatsu or The hooded rider because I tried to use him mainly as a damage dealer and I was always trying to throw him into enemy models. But then I realiced his real power is the control he brings and there was when I started to like the model.

Just walking and then using Breath of Fire and Glimpse of Insanity on 2 important models to remove the Focused (even if both attack misses) is where he shines; plus enemies can only attack him once with Focused because he will remove any remaining one (but it's true he is a bit frail so SS to keep him alive are important). His up in flames trigger is also very good to scheme denial. Other players say his Draw Essence is good, but I personally haven't used it much, maybe because I don't tend to play versus hordes.

He has some damage potential, but for 10SS and with all his limitations (no damage reduction, no flurry, average movement, bad damage track without triggers...), he is not a good pick just for the damage.

I absolutely agree. I took him for a beater and he got mauled terribly. Furthermore I was confused about his damage track, until I realized, that he is a pretty solid damage dealer vs. HtW.

Today I'm still not entirely convinced of him, especially since Pandora is also able to remove Focussed and handling out Stun is easy to comeby in a Pandora Crew. I have Poltergeist and Iggy for Anti-Scheming (and fire damage, if necessary) and I feel like the ping damage is sufficient to battle hordes of cheap models, so I don't feel the urge to include more blasts.

But what I need Carver occasionally for is his Ruthless. Neverborn are generally really tight on Ruthless and in some engagements, I want to have both (Carver and Rider). Might be just my inability to leverage Carver more, but I do feel he is a bit expensive for what he brings to the table, to include him with any regularity.

[Regelridderen]

I like Carver because he looks bad-ass, and that usually draws attention. He’s also fairly durable with his Terrifying and Feed on Fear.

Like @Ogid I like him more for his Breath of Fire or his Draw Essence than his Melee attack. These draw cards from your opponents hands and allows other attacks to go through. The Breath of Fire trigger has also helped me foil many a scheme from my opponent. 

I also wouldn’t underestimate the power of a Stat6 Glimpse of Insanity. Allowing you to reliably force a Stun on most opponents.

He isn’t in all my lists, but he usually plays his part.