Several rules queries

[Inzeen]

Hey all,

Still noob, so after two more games of my Lynch crew against my buddy's Wong crew, questions arose:

1: I tried looking this one up here, but couldnt really find the answers. If Hungering Darkness Obey's an enemy model, the model takes the action. So, who flips the cards? Do they come from my deck, or his? And who decides what triggers to declare or when to cheat fate?

2: Engagement range raised some questions too. Using Hungering Darkness again, cause of his 2" melee range. Say Hungering stands besides a wall and an enemy model wants to move past Hungering. We reckoned, if a walk action ends anywhere with the model in engagement range, it's engaged. Clear as day.
Now, what happens if the move action takes the model into and then out of Hungering's engagement. Does the walk action stop when it would exit Hungerings melee range? Do you only check engagement at the end of a walk action? Or do you also check during an action? Hope this question is clear :P

3: The Outflank scheme wants you to have two models on opposing edges of the table, right? So, if I sit in the middle of the table, one on the right hand side and one on the left hand side? Translating this Scheme to Dutch left us with two interpretations that said two wholly different things :P (jeeh English!)

 

Thats all for now. Kudo's in advance for anyone willing to take the time explaining stuff to us :)

[Jesy Blue]

1. The player doing the Obey makes all the choices and card flips.
2. A Walk action cannot exit an engagement range, a Push or non-Walk movement can exit an engagement range, however you cannot declarea Charge (which is a Push) while engaged.  So, if at any time during the Walk move you become engaged by an enemy model, you cannot continue the rest of the Walk move out of the engagement range of that model.
3. In Standard or Wedge deployment, you want one model on each of the table edge on the centerline.  In Corner or Flank deployment, you want one model on each of the table corners on the center line.

Good luck on the translation!  We all love Mark-Paul Gosselaar, so thanks for that!

[Inzeen]

Nice, concise answers. Thnx

[Rufess]

A supplement to the 2nd question. Engagement is determined by engage range and LoS. So during any point of a normal Walk action, a model cannot leave another model engagement range NOR LoS.

Using your example. If a model is engaged by the Hungering Darkness, no matter it was already engaged before or it moved into engagement range during a Walk action, the model now cannot leave the engagement range with a Walk action. It either cannot walk behind the wall (assuming the wall is high enough to block the LoS in between) while stay within 2" of Hungering Darkness to try to leave engagement.

[Maniacal_cackle]

59 minutes ago, Rufess said:

A supplement to the 2nd question. Engagement is determined by engage range and LoS. So during any point of a normal Walk action, a model cannot leave another model engagement range NOR LoS.

Is this true? I thought engagement worked even without LOS, and has always annoyed me that it could go through walls.

[Rufess]

56 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Is this true? I thought engagement worked even without LOS, and has always annoyed me that it could go through walls.

per the FAQ, section 2

Quote

2. Can a model leave an enemy model’s engagement range during the Walk Action by breaking LoS with the enemy model?

a) No. If a model is taking the Walk Action, it cannot at any point during the Action become unengaged with a model it was previously engaged with during the Action.

 

But after re-reading the rule I think you are right.

So if a model is within 2" and LoS of Hungering Darkness, then the model is engaged and cannot leave engagement range NOR LoS.

If a models is within 2" but out of LoS of Hungering Darkness, then the model is not engaged but still cannot leave the engagement range.

[Sweet Tooth]

11 minutes ago, Rufess said:

If a models is within 2" but out of LoS of Hungering Darkness, then the model is not engaged but still cannot leave the engagement range.

But with this logic that means you can effectively trap models through walls. They can’t Disengage since they aren’t engaged, but also can’t leave the engagement range.. which makes no sense. I think the text for the Walk action should have a qualifier about being engaged. 

[Adran]

4 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

But with this logic that means you can effectively trap models through walls. They can’t Disengage since they aren’t engaged, but also can’t leave the engagement range.. which makes no sense. I think the text for the Walk action should have a qualifier about being engaged. 

I think there has been a little cross edition confusion here. Although what you state is completely correct you could just charge away since you are not engaged.

Previous editions did not have the disengaging strike action, and if you intended to walk out of engagement you had to announce that you were going to leave engagement range during the walk before you took the walk. This allowed a model to try and stop you, but since it could only do so with a action that was in range at the time you announced the action, if you weren't engaging at the time the action was announced you couldn't stop it. This lead to a way to avoid disengaging strikes of walking behind a building whilst not leaving engagement range. 

The FAQ is saying this doesn't work in M3. (Although engagement requires both range and line of sight, engagement range doesn't) 

There is some terminology issues here between being engaged and being in an enemy models engagement range that don't quite add up. My personal thought is the walk action is slightly wrongly phrased, and it shouldn't be used to stop you being engaged.  

[Maniacal_cackle]

Oh, I had somehow missed all this. Yeah, walk probably needs an errata then?

[Harlekin]

8 hours ago, Rufess said:

per the FAQ, section 2

 

But after re-reading the rule I think you are right.

So if a model is within 2" and LoS of Hungering Darkness, then the model is engaged and cannot leave engagement range NOR LoS.

If a models is within 2" but out of LoS of Hungering Darkness, then the model is not engaged but still cannot leave the engagement range.

Isn't the answer a bit misleading? 
The question asks about "leaving the engagement range" but the answer only mentions "becoming unengaged with a model it was previously engaged with" which isn't the same thing as you mentioned.

[solkan]

On 9/14/2020 at 6:30 AM, Harlekin said:

Isn't the answer a bit misleading? 
The question asks about "leaving the engagement range" but the answer only mentions "becoming unengaged with a model it was previously engaged with" which isn't the same thing as you mentioned.

I think what happened with the FAQ is a policy change between editions.

In both M2E and M3E, there's a restriction in Walk concerning leaving engagement range.  In both editions, because engagement depends on both range and line of sight, if a model was engaged and was moved to a position in melee range but out of line of sight it would no longer be engaged.

In M2E, the FAQ decreed that this was okay, and didn't provoke a disengaging strike.

The M3E FAQ is saying this is not okay.  It is effectively changing the text in Walk to mean "This movement cannot be used to stop being engaged by an enemy model."